domestic vs foreign kits

What about armor models? Are there any domestic armor manufacturers?

DURR wrote:

this post is 2 yrs old has anything changed in the domestic vs import model war yes the imported have gotten better and the domestic are at a standstill

Are there any kits being made in the US?

A few factors have come into play:

Lower oversease manufacturing costs, lower export costs, a trade deficite, and a deflated dollar all made foreign kits more appealling in the US market.  I think I read last year that Revell has moved all their manufacturing overseas.   I don't know about Lindberg, and Testors just remarkets other manufactures kits.  Revell is doing a lot of that too.

Scott

Haha, how'd even find such an old thread??!!!

the new Revell mustang GT looks pretty nice though.......  Alrite fine most of them still never improved.

this post is 2 yrs old has anything changed in the domestic vs import model war

yes the imported have gotten better and the domestic are at a standstill

Ray has made an excellent point, I have to admit... PC games, X-box and all that easily cost what an average Tamiya kit cost... Indeed, kids have the choice of not doing models and do something else. I still think most boys (at least) will give models a try, though. And that's where the price of a kit comes in. It's normaly the parents that come up with the money to buy a kit. Responding to a 'impulse need' from a kid, I'd say the average parent would say 'what about this $10 Ferrari from AMT rather than $30 Ferrari from Tamiya' ... We might know better, but we are 'experienced ' modelers and we see things differently than the average dad and mum. Only after showing commitment and interest in this first few cheap(er) kits would the average parent invest in more expensive (and possibly better designed) kits (unless it's the birthday present from Granny: i.e. the biggest box in the shop!)...

The hobby has greatly involved since I was a kid. I used to get Matchbox, Airfix, Heller, ESCI kits for next to nothing then, and would only venture into more expensive Fujimi, Hasagawa and (very rarely) Tamiya kits once I got a certain experience behind me. Even back then, I quickly learned to stay away from some manufacturers (Lindberg, Revell, Frog,..).

Whether you build an Airfix or a Tamiya kit, you're still likely to get something that looks very much the same unless you have some basic building/painting skills under your belt. Unsupervised, a beginner in the hobby is as likely to make a mess of the canopy, the suspension, the road wheels, the tracks,.. with a Tamiya kit than with an Airfix one. A basic Aifrix Series 1 kit must have, what, 30-40 parts at most. Look how much more complicated is a 'fairly simple' 1/72 A-4F from Fujimi..! That's even without looking at the decal sheet!

Today, would be modelers are still likely to get the odd very old Revell kit and be somewhat discouraged, but I'd say that most kits nowadays are better designed than in the past, and that they are less likely to quit modeling because of poor quality kits. But young modelers and new modelers want 'instant' gratification and therefore, ease of building might well be a deciding factor.

I would rather build a good curb-side kit, than a poor kit with engine detail etc.

Maybe if Revell simplified a bit, they could keep the price down and the get the quality up.

But then... I got 2 Ferrari Testarrosas at a local hobby store for $14 each and they have GREAT detail! I also got 2 Ferrari 348ts from Squadron for $5 each! (they are curbsides)

It may come down to a matter of need... does these cheeper companies NEED to improve the kits if they are selling all they can make now?

And choosing to purchase die cast and other built-up replicas.

Excellent point. That is exactly what we are talking about. But if the kits are no fun to build they won't get to the second, third, or more so the price doesn't matter. Does the difference in price really make up for the lower quality? I'm sure with enough government funding we could come up with a quantitative equation to specifically calculate the relationship between quality and quantity. :-) Don't look at me, I already blew it on another thread in regards to math calculations.
Seriously, though, do you think the price difference is enough?
Another thing, someone else mentioned that kids don't have the money to spend on the more expensive kits. That may be, but I think it is because they have been spending it on video games, computer games, etc. With the prices of video games sitting at $50-$100 and more its not that they don't have the money. It's that they are choosing NOT to spend it on models.
Well, there's another can of worms to chew on. :-)

Ray

Now I'll play devil's advocate - Heylonghair has raised a very good point. But I'm inclined to think that the average kid will be able to do the math and figure that he (or she) can get 2 or even 3 Revellogram kits for the price of one Tamiya and go with quantity vs. quality.

Thanks for the comments everyone. It's interesting hearing everyone's opinions on the subject.

QUOTE: Originally posted by djmodels1999 I can see my kids struggling with not so complicated Revell-Germany armor... So, let's be happy that cheap(er) and easier models are still available... It's good for the hobby.

Now let me just play devil's advocate here for a minute. With the quality of some of the kits out there though, do you think that that may actually discourage some beginners from continuing on in the hobby? How frustrating is it to pick up a kit where nothing fits, the parts are mis-shapen, etc. Whereas a higher quality kit that fits properly and looks good can really generate more excitment to keep building. Even experienced builders have commented that the higher-quality kits are sometimes easier to build than the cheaper ones.
What do you think?

Ray

Japan is benefiting from the tremendous divelopment of tooling technology for plastic molding which was stimulated in the 80s and 90s by the toy industry, specifically the robot-type (Transformers, etc.) and the Gundam-type items which required very precise engineering and trained a large number of toolmakers and engravers, as well as advancing the art of computer-assisted design and manufacture. The electronics field played a part, too, with the need for precision molded parts. The Japanese kit makers have been more financially stable than the U.S. and West European makers, and have been willing to introduce many more new kits. The Western manufacturers have huge stocks of old tooling, and it's much cheaper to recycle it and re-release old kits than to develop new ones. The trend away from modeling as an adolescent male hobby, and toward an adult builder/collector market in the U.S. especially has also played a part.

OT: Congratulations, Domi, you hit the 500 post mark (do you ever find time for modeling?) and you're just an AVERAGE member??? LOL!!!!!

I agree with what is said above, it's a great deal to do with the market manufacturers are looking for... But let us remind ourselves that most people who buy scale models are not necessarily in the hobby as much as we are. Finding a replica of a vehicle you love and wanting to own it is a bit part of our human nature. Finding cheap and simple kits to meet that demand is important.

Out of those people who see a kit and want it for 'sentimental' reasons, only a few will ever go 'big time' in the hobby. But I have to say that I'm glad that when I started, I could rely on a great deal of those cheap and easy Airfix, Frog, Matchbox models. Very much like J-Hulk said just before this message, had I started a few years or months ago, with a high tech kit, it is very possible that I would not have ever completed my first model and instead gone into video games or something else... I can see my kids struggling with not so complicated Revell-Germany armor... So, let's be happy that cheap(er) and easier models are still available... It's good for the hobby.

And, let's face it, when is Tamiya likely to release a Victor, a Vulcan, a Siskin, a Vimy, a Dominie, a Rotodyne, a Star War's AT-AT, a Char B1bis,...? Sometimes those cheapies are the only option left to us 'experienced' modelers...!

Finaly, yes, there are good and bad manufacturers, sure. But even in the US, manufacturers such as Monogram and Revell do some pretty amazing things... And as you go a little bit more into 'niche' markets, manufacturers such as William Bros, Rhino Models, Tom's Modelwork,... are offering some pretty good stuff too.

Well, that sure outlines my modeling history: Revell and Monogram as a kid, "graduating" to Tamiya, Hasegawa, Dragon, etc. as a more advanced (and financially stable) modeler.
To be honest, though, I'm not sure I would have been able to appreciate all that accuracy and detail as a beginner, let alone be able to afford it.
Gotta start somewhere, and sometimes, the simpler the better.

Sometimes I think that Revell/Monogram and Testor's are just targeting kids, while Tamiya and Hasegawa are going after the more serious modelers. There's really nothing wrong with that; let's face it - lots of kids just starting out wouldn't be able to afford Tamiya or Hasegawa kits (or at least not many of them)

But after putting together a few Revellogram kits, they'll sure appreciate the Japanese ones!

Naplak is right: modeling is much bigger here, and I'd say the average modeler here demands much more from a kit than the average modeler in the States (broad, sweeping generalization, I know, but I did say "AVERAGE!").
As far as cost goes, conversely, Revell, Monogram, Heller, etc, are very expensive here.
All about importing, I guess.
Well, Trumpeter is still dirt cheap!

Yes... the Japanese kits are a LOT cheaper in Japan. For example, the Tamiya Ferrari F-1 2001 is $20.35 on Hobby Link Japan. (plus a little less than $8 shipping if ordered alone). The same kit locally is $42!

It's still more than a Revell is locally (averaging about $13). But a lot closer. If you go to Fred Meyer, K-Mart etc, you will ONLY find Revell and Testors, because of price I assume.

Another factor is that Modeling is bigger in Japan, so Tamiya sells more models in a smaller market, which decreases costs.

I think it is more a matter of tradition. Revell builds inexpensive kits because that's what most modelers here want. At a recent Auto Model club meeting, several people said they would "never pay $30" for a car model. They scoffed at the idea.

In Japan EVERYTHING is more expensive, profit margins are lower, business executives are paid far less. Japan also has a greater tradition of valuing artistic works (including models).

And you can get just as good a result from either kind of kit.

I have mostly Japanese kits because I can get them at a good price directly... I recently got 9 kits at once and paid only $32 shipping total, and STILL saved 30% or more. But I do have some Revell kits also. ($8 for 1/72 aircraft models).

I don't think it is laziness... I think the American makers are just going after a different part of the market. They are aiming their kits at different customers.