modeling vs collecting

This topic was covered very extensively about a year ago, but it never hurts to reexplore these issues every so often. It allows new members to contribute and see how everyone else feels about modeling issues.

*IMHO Alert*

Whether we're talking about stamps or coins, paintings or sculptures, memorabilia or model kits, pure collectors fill an important niche in society. Their love of a subject and it's proper care and storage, ensures that items will remain in pristine condition for generations of people to view, purchase, or just appreciate. From a modeler's perspective, pure collecters are seen as both a bane and a benefit - depending on the point of view.

Many modeler's believe that every kit manufactured should be built...period. While this is an understandable viewpoint, wouldn't it be sad if there were absolutely NO model kits still in existence from the 1940's, 1950's, or 1960's? No way to see how the kits were packaged, how the instructions looked, or the condition of the parts? If not for collectors who care for these rare and important historical aspects of our hobby, we would have far less knowledge about our hobby's past and couldn't appreciate these beautiful old kits.

However, there is another "gremlin" that has creapt into our hobby and it's NOT a collector. Many of these individuals may call themselves collectors and even modelers may consider them collectors, but they're not. These people are model kit "investors". Investors have NO particular love for model kits or their history and are really NOT looking to preserve a model kit for 30 or 40 years. They are buying up mass quantities of model kits strickly on the speculation that the kits will become more valuable one, two, or three years down the road. They will then attempt to resell the kits at incredible prices and make a hefty profit. These are the people who really hurt the modeling industry and adversely affect the wallet of the average model builder.

*End of IMHO Alert*

That is EXACTLY what the ones buying 2 or 4 kits are doing!!!
People did the same thing on Dale Earnhardt memorabilia after he was killed at Daytona and it really made me mad!!!
I had most of it and people that knew it told me I should try and sell some of it. No way!!!! It is MY collection. Not for sale.
To take it one step further. There are even some distributors that will do the same thing. Then advertise as "just found in a dusty corner of our warehouse." Yea, Right.

Most modelers end up buying more kits than they can build. They don't consider themselves collectors, but when you amass dozens or hundreds of kits, what are you ? Every kit I buy I fully intend to build, but it's a lot easier to buy a kit than build it & I see my stash growing steadily. The late owner of a LHS & close friend of mine used to say, I don't care whether you build it or not, just buy it. Overall, collectors & even investors are good for the hobby IMHO. The sales they generate help to offer the economic incentive for manufacturers to stay in business & continue to offer the new releases that are the life blood of the hobby. Just my .

Regards, Rick

I think it's a double-edged sword. On one hand, such as the example you brought up, if there are several limited-run kits out there, collecting can hurt those that actually want to build. However, it is important to preserve these kits, so that the future generations can see them. As a modeller and a collector, I can understand the perspective of either. It's really a matter of personal preference. I don't know too many people that would simply collect kits, without the desire to build a single one. Then again, I could be wrong.

foster investors that is the word i think those are the guys
you hit the nail right on the head (investors)

This problem exists all across the spectrum. Years ago, I was a comic book collector. The early to mid nineties became known as the 'Gimmick Age' because of all the fancy covers, variant covers,ashcans etc. This stuff often had no merit in any artistic sense, and when the dust settled and they were actually required to justify there 'value' they couldn't do it and they tanked. Unfortunately, I've got a couple of boxes of that crap polluting my collection now, and I will never be able to sell most of it for what I paid for it.
The moral is: Just because it's 'rare' , 'special' or 'limited edition' doesn't mean it is actually worth anything. And just because it isn't worth anything doesn't mean there isn't some dope who will try to sit on it as a collectible.

I often buy kits just because I feel I will never see them again. I fully intend to build them-but time is short. Am I a collector, or modeler or just an idiot?

QUOTE: Originally posted by trowlfazz I often buy kits just because I feel I will never see them again. I fully intend to build them-but time is short. Am I a collector, or modeler or just an idiot?

I am the same way, only for the third option, could I be guy with eyes bigger than his ability and schedule.

I buy a load of kits (never more than 1 of the same) becuase I intend to build them and stick them on a shelf for all to see. The problem for me is that I don't have the shelf space nor the safety for the built model to warrent me rushing to build them all now. I live with a 3 year old and the rest of my family just grab the model to move them without regard for it.

I have several limited edition kits that I have been sitting on for several, but I mean to build them someday when I feel comfortable my skill level is high enough to make a good model worthy of the price I paid. Usually, I avoid falling into the investor trap by opening the wrapping, which by my understanding should decrease the value making selling them pointless.

Having said that, I have bought a model becuase I figured the price would go up, but that was just so I could get it at a decent price now. Case in point: Tamiya's Dragon Wagon and the Famo tank transporter. I bought both of ebay relatively at a relatively inexpensive price and have been sitting on those for 4 years (with the wrapping off) and now I am glad I did for the availability and the price of them now.....

At our end, this is a hobby. At the manufactuers' and dealers' end, it's just business. Moe Models releases a limited run of a model and it sells out quickly at Curley's Craft Corner. Moe Models now has money to invest in more Moe Models to reissue or to even fund a new mold. Curley's Craft Corner has more cash to keep up stock and maybe expand. End result, more Moe Models to buy at our end.

If a company declares in advance that they are selling something as a numbered limited edition, they are already marketing it to collectors for whom scarcity is important. On the other hand, if a company puts out a small initial release of something because they are not sure how much demand there is, they don't have the finances to make a bunch at once, or whatever, I don't really see how that hurts the builder in the long run. If a single collector bought up all of them and buried them in concrete the company would have an incentive to make another batch, and to continue doing so, as long as there were buyers.

So, it seems to me that either a given kit is being produced explicitly for collectors (in which case it's probably overpriced for the builder in the first place), or the market will catch up and you'll be able to get one at a fair price eventually.

Additionally, if the collectors don't bury them in concrete they're still available to be built, albeit perhaps not at the moment. If another company comes out with a better model of the same subject (perhaps at the same price), the collector is unlikely to be able to recover the initial purchase price and thus might dump the extras that were bought on speculation.

In short, this seems like an area where the free market is bound to work out in most cases. Having a larger supply of buyers (regardless of their intentions for the kit) makes it possible for manufactures to produce a wider range of kits and THAT is a very good thing for us builders.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ajlafleche At our end, this is a hobby. At the manufactuers' and dealers' end, it's just business. Moe Models releases a limited run of a model and it sells out quickly at Curley's Craft Corner. Moe Models now has money to invest in more Moe Models to reissue or to even fund a new mold. Curley's Craft Corner has more cash to keep up stock and maybe expand. End result, more Moe Models to buy at our end.

What's Moe, I think you have a Larry good point there...

ummm... for some Tamiya limited run models, namely the Late Tiger I, or full box art models, i tend to buy two and build one with a good amount of AM parts and effort. n NO WAY in hell am i planning to sell the second one. i guess i should still be considered a collector eh?

other than tamiya's stuff, i build every model i get and stores some on the shelf for later if i think i am getting them at a pretty good price.

I think that a lot modelling companies try to "hype" their product by making limited editions.
I would like to make a distinction between technical grounds (short run molds that wear out) and marketing grounds. For instance Italeri is currently reissueing some old models as limited. These are mainstream long-run steel molds, they could use them (and are using them) for ages.

I don't think "true"collectors and inverstors are the only ones to blame, a lot of modellers seem to hord models to build them later. Special and limited subjects have a great attraction to modellers.

Years ago I was in the military,
Ever have a model collection packed up and moved?
Let's just say my spare parts box tripled in size after every move.
So I began to "collect" the kits I wanted to build up after I retired.
Now I find I cannot really retire on an enlisted mans government subsidy ,so I have to work. This leaves less time for the building I was going to do, but slowly I am cracking the "to do" list while buying more.
However ,most of my purchases are for paints and glue as I rush to assemble the massive "Collection".

Don

I'm in the same boat as Don. After joining the Air Force, I tried to keep up my modeling hobby, but eventually other interests took a higher priority. Its hard to have a modeling spot in a barracks room shared by 1-2 other people. Frequent relocations due to assignments makes it difficult to move a model collection intact, although I did know a few that did it. Personally, I am not one to spend weeks toiling on a model and then have it reduced to pieces after having to ship it, no matter how careful you pack it. Over the years the active modeling spirit is replaced with the "if I see a good deal on a model, I'll but it to build after I retire." So now I have over 140 kits to build and I continue to pick up an occasional good deal model, especially if its one that is OOP. But like Dan said, the enlisted retirement pay may cover the house mortage but not everything else. Now, 140+ kits may seem like a lot to some of the younger modelers out in the forum, but it pales to some of the stashes I have read that some of the older guys have. (Check out some of the past posts on model stashes)

A true collector collects kits to trade or sell at a later date when the kits become rare. I think they do it more for monetary reasons than for the true sense of collecting for posterity. I am like most of my fellow forum members, I collect to eventually build and display. If I can't work on the actual aircraft or own one, at least I can build a detailed representation of it for my own pleasure.

Those that have said that the younger kids are not into modeling like when us baby boomers were are right. Its a generation thing. Modeling companies are responding by pricing kits and accessories to our income levels. So, I feel that the majority of us collect for future builds. The few "true" collectors are chatting on another forum I think along with the Star Wars figure and comic book collectors.

Eventually, Dan and I will get the chance to dive into our stashes.

T.Young

after reading what all of you have said
i have come to the conclusion that it is an attitude thing
in other words people that are builders and have a stash are ok they are not the
enemy (so to speak) but the ones who buy are hord for latter profit who collect not because they really like models they are the enemy of the hobby