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are we just puppies on a leash

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Monday, October 3, 2005 1:39 PM
djrost2000's story about the Revell Type VII (alias Type IX) U-boat is a rather interesting one. It's a rare instance of a model manufacturer backing off from an unethical marketing ploy.

The stunt occurred, if I remember correctly, in the very late seventies or the early eighties - a rough time for Revell, and most other manufacturers. I was working in a hobby shop at the time, and it was generally assumed that the days of the American scale plastic model kit were numbered. Aurora had gone out of business, Monogram had been bought out by Mattel (and was releasing things like Snoopy and His Sopwith Camel), and Revell seemed to be on the ropes. It was releasing scarcely any new scale models other than cars.

That Type VII U-boat never was a state-of-the-art kit; in terms of detail it didn't match stuff Revell had produced ten or fifteen years earlier. I suspect many of the people in the company management didn't know anything about ships. (The CEO at the time was the widow of one of Revell's founders; it's pretty clear from the documentation of the time that she knew virtually nothing about scale modeling.) If we want to be charitable we can call it a more-or-less honest mistake: to the average person, there is little if any difference between a Type VII U-boat and a Type IX. Revell was looking desperately for ways to marke its kits, and apparently hoped to capitalize on the fame of U-505, which is seen by tens of thousands of people every year at the Science Museum in Chicago.

The trouble, if I have the story straight, started when the museum's gift shop started selling the "U-505" kits. Most people probably can't tell the difference between a Type VII and a Type IX, but thousands of people can - and a high percentage of them make it to that museum eventually. Customers screamed at the museum, the museum screamed at Revell, and Revell, to its credit, took the kit off the market. Since then, to my knowledge, in all its incarnations it's been labeled a Type VII.

Would that things like that happened more often. The plastic ship model market is full of deceptive stunts like that. I don't know of another instance in which the modelers fought back - and won.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Monday, October 3, 2005 1:17 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by echolmberg

Only tank modelers would do rush out ot buy such a product.


not true
hasagawa has done this to Many aircraft kits
yes they had new tooling but not in All cases
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Green Bay, WI USA
Posted by echolmberg on Monday, October 3, 2005 12:35 PM
Only tank modelers would do rush out ot buy such a product.

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Saturday, October 1, 2005 10:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by trowlfazz

QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk

I don't quite get the basic gripe here.


Brian-Speaking for myself-I just like to complain. ;-)


*snort, chuckle cough, cough, hadn't noticed that Trowl! Tongue [:P]

So long folks!

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Where the coyote howl, NH
Posted by djrost_2000 on Saturday, October 1, 2005 7:14 PM
The worst example I've seen of re-packaging was done by Revell (US) about 15 or so years ago.
When I was a kid I built the U-47 cutaway. It was a type VII U-boat. In the late 80s, early 90s Revell sells a kit of the U-505 which is supposed to be a type IXC. I still have this kit of the U-505 and it is anything but a type IXC. I do believe it is a whole (non-cutaway) version of the U-47 like the type VII I built as a kid!
Now I believe this same kit is being sold as U-99 and thank God they call it a type VII.
I like many Revell kits but in this case they were being naughtyEvil [}:)]

Dave
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 1, 2005 3:37 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk

I don't quite get the basic gripe here.


Brian-Speaking for myself-I just like to complain. ;-)
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Saturday, October 1, 2005 2:40 PM
Having re-read and thought about this thread further, I don't quite get the basic gripe here.

In my opinion, the more variations available, the better.

Choice, people. Choice is good!

Even if it's only new decals or a few new parts added to model a different variation of a subject, I think it's good to have that choice. No one says you have to buy or build them all. CHOICE!

Puppies on leashes don't have many choices (to pee or not to pee, that's about it), but we do. Choose wisely.

Although I did wholeheartedly agree above that I'd rather see companies putting more resources towards producing "new" rather than "recycled" kits, I still believe the availability of numerous variations is a good thing. Just look at Hasegawa's 1/72 B-25 series. I'm not a big fan of the J, but I love the H! I'm glad they offered the variation.
~Brian
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 1, 2005 11:27 AM
QT-I think those interested in the entire livery of the 109 would prefer individual kits. Dorks like me are content with a few variations and I mean like 2 bladed props as opposed to an armament blister. It's to each his own -I just wish there were more esoteric kits like some US interwar bipes from the Curtiss folks.
  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by qtaylor on Saturday, October 1, 2005 10:50 AM
Well, would you buy a 109 kit, if it had all the optional parts to complete any 109 from B-G10? It would also come with a booklet of decals too!

And 4 times the price-tag.

QT
"Neither a purist nor a perfectionist be."
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 1, 2005 9:44 AM
Check this out:
http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=dr5026

A real innovative new kit! ;-)
Read as: new nose=new kit.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Friday, September 30, 2005 9:16 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by DURR

i just wish the companies would put more resources and energy into new rather than recycled models


Don't we all!
~Brian
  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Friday, September 30, 2005 9:07 AM
i just wish the companies would put more resources and energy into new rather than recycled models
  • Member since
    July 2005
  • From: Queensland ,Australia
Posted by richard bent on Friday, September 30, 2005 4:12 AM
i agree with Bgrigg, sometimes you have to take the good and the bad and hope that the good stuff outweighs the bad or do as i do and try to ignor the stuff that peeves youCool [8D]Big Smile [:D]
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:43 PM
What you are seeing is good ol'American marketing. This explains why there is umpteen different flavors of Crest and Coke. Car makers change the shape of the fender and grill and resell us a five year old car as "new". There are many other examples.

Even the "older" makes of models are subject to that. P-51C and D, P-38 F, G, H, I, J and sometimes Y, Bf-109-F or G the list goes on and on and on. All in the name of hysterical historical accuracy. It's not just one model company either. I can't believe how many different models of "Big Beautiful Doll" P-51s are out there, spanning numerous companies and scales, right up to R/C kits. Now we can argue the merits or disadvantages of the Hasagawa P-38 vs. Tamiya vs. Revell vs. Accurate Miniatures.

And if we didn't all slaver over the next model, how long do you suppose the model companies would last? We would all be bemoaning the lack of new models and wishing Company A would re-release that XYZ Tank with the "proper" aluminum wheels, because is looked better than that stupid magnesium wheeled XYZ-1 version.

So, yes. We are all puppies on the leash. You can go meekly, you can be dragged along, or you can chew through and be free! Careful of the dog catcher, is all!Wink [;)]

So long folks!

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:51 PM
i know you guys say it does not affect you because you by OLDER kits but think of this have you not seen in aircraft or armor it is the same kit with new decals
i notice with many not all aircraft for example hasagawa issues a f-4 in about 8 boxes it is still an f4 but the decals are differnt and the pretty picture on the box is differeent you see what i am saying
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:07 PM
Doesn't really affect me either as most of the kits I build are either more exotic subjects or early/original versions of the item.

But I have seen it often where people go gaga and buy multiple kits of the same item because there are a few changes/mods in each.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:24 PM
This sort of thing doesn't affect me, but that's not the case with most, ESPECIALLY when it comes to amour. What also really kind of gets me annoyed is people CONSTANTLY complaining about how their wives etc nag them for spending so much money on kits, and these same people I hear about going and pre-ordering compulsively. Well, stop acting like a freaking 10-year-old child and maybe your wife will stop treating you like one. Sorry about the rant. But on topic, I totally hear you, this sort of thing I see as nothing but a gimmick, and I'm fairly good at resisting gimmicks.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:07 PM
I have to agree with trowlfazz. I would rather model something around WW2 to Vietnam, due to the fact that they aren't going through all the upgrades and not doing more to it like the modern vehicles and aircraft.
  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:45 PM
Welllllllllll, seeing as I have an iron clad rule to not buy a kit until I finish the one I am currently working on, I would have to say not at this time. But I am unsure how long my willpower will hold out!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:50 PM
I'm not that fussy either, Durr. I also prefer older subjects. Modern stuff kinda bores me.
  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:24 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by overkillphil

Couldn't tell you. I don't go in for that sort of thing.



good i don't either
  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Northern Indiana
Posted by overkillphil on Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:28 AM
Couldn't tell you. I don't go in for that sort of thing.
my favorite headache/current project: 1/48 Panda F-35 "I love the fact that dumb people don't know who they are. I hope I'm not one of them" -Scott Adams
  • Member since
    July 2013
are we just puppies on a leash
Posted by DURR on Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:22 AM
the army just came out with the xyz tank
the model companies scramble and create a model of it
everyone is happy
now the army takes the xyz tank and replaces it's aluminium wheels with titanium wheels that are a 1/2" larger in diameter
they now call the tank xyz-1
in a 1/35scale model you can't see the 1/2'' or the titanium vs aluminium wheels but
the model companies rush out new box art and take the original xyz and rebox it and well all drool like puppies with a treat in front of him and go buy another one
why
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