does anyone here go to these extremes

jhande wrote:

Or does it depend on who is holding the competition?

The rules that are used in a competition vary from organisation to organisation. The smaller the competition, the less likely that a rulebook is going to be used.(which is not a bad thing, it just happens)

Sorry for side tracking the thread any further, but my curiousity has been aroused.

ajlafleche wrote:

If you and Jim Bob both get the basics right, neither has any glaring errors or the errors are equivalent, what's a judge to do? Most contests are limited to 1-2-3 so you have to find something else to go on. If one kit is OOB with no errors and the next is accurized and super-detailed with no errors, it follows the extra work with no errors is going to get the nod. Another example, OOB with no errors vs the same kit with full Eduard PE. If the PE is misalligned and applied with large gobs of glue or ahas a finish with brushmarks or silvered/unsealed decals, the OOB will get the prize.

I've never been to a competition or model show, so I am only going by what I've come across on the internet for different model (mostly cars) competitions.

I was under the assumption that there was different categories, such as for example - OOB, added AM parts and customized? I didn't think a stock OOB kit would be judged against one that has tons of add-on parts or one that is fully customized. 

Or does it depend on who is holding the competition?

To each there own. I'm okay with that. I don't really care if my kit is the most accurate as long as it builds up into a decent representation of that subject. On the other hand I will add some am's if need be to achieve desired results.

dkmacin wrote:

Looks as if the last sentence is the catch 22 of the handbook then, asI have had my models looked at much deeper!! Or maybe I wasn't aswell known? Don

If you and Jim Bob both get the basics right, neither has any glaring errors or the errors are equivalent, what's a judge to do? Most contests are limited to 1-2-3 so you have to find something else to go on. If one kit is OOB with no errors and the next is accurized and super-detailed with no errors, it follows the extra work with no errors is going to get the nod. Another example, OOB with no errors vs the same kit with full Eduard PE. If the PE is misalligned and applied with large gobs of glue or ahas a finish with brushmarks or silvered/unsealed decals, the OOB will get the prize.

Sometimes in judging,it's a quick walk down the aisle, 1-2-3, job done. More often it's walk down the aisle, make a first cut and bring the contenders forward for closer examination. From here it could be a few minutes discussion and 1-2-3 or it could be a long discussion with revisiting the kits  that initially didbn't make the cut because the best models are all by the same person or upon closer examination the "better" kits have some less obvious, but significant errors. Other times, it's, OMG, how can we give anything here award? In these cases, the least bad gets the prize.

The best way to learn what goes on in judging is to elp with judging.

Now as to the rules, does everyone know or follow them?  Not bloody likely. As I said, "experts" are not the best judges, IMHO, because they know the subject too intimately and are more likely to look for uncorrected kit errors tahn the basics.

From the introduction to the IPMS Competition Handbook: (http://www.ipmsusa.org/CH_index.html)

"Throughout the judging process, the first and most important things for judges to consider are the basics. Typically, the judges' first cut will identify models that exhibit flaws in basic construction and finishing such as open seams or gaps, misaligned parts, glue marks, or poorly applied paint. Often, it is this ranking of the models on the basics that will determine the final outcome in the category being judged. Only when these basics don't allow for a clear-cut ranking do the judges begin to look deeper. .."

For this reason, it's often good if experts on a particular prototype not be involved in the judging, but rather generalists who can look to the basics before looking at extra detailing, absolute historical accuracy, etc.

[?
Looks as if the last sentence is the catch 22 of the handbook then, asI have had my models looked at much deeper!!
Or maybe I wasn't aswell known?

Don

RemcoGrob wrote:

DURR wrote: does anyone here go to these extremes   Yes, they certainly do! The madness is right among us! http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/603760/ShowPost.aspx

Hahaha nice one, Remco!

dkmacin wrote:

Rob, Gotta disagree with you on the not looking for accuracy. I have had many of my models not only given the six times over with a jewlers loop, but been told that it is not "historically accurate", " not at all accurate", or best of all; "never flown in that configuration". Perhaps I may have missed an ejector mark but that is not what I was told. I might just been lucky enough to get a judge that was an expert on my chosen model. Don

From the introduction to the IPMS Competition Handbook: (http://www.ipmsusa.org/CH_index.html)

"Throughout the judging process, the first and most important things for judges to consider are the basics. Typically, the judges' first cut will identify models that exhibit flaws in basic construction and finishing such as open seams or gaps, misaligned parts, glue marks, or poorly applied paint. Often, it is this ranking of the models on the basics that will determine the final outcome in the category being judged. Only when these basics don't allow for a clear-cut ranking do the judges begin to look deeper. .."

For this reason, it's often good if experts on a particular prototype not be involved in the judging, but rather generalists who can look to the basics before looking at extra detailing, absolute historical accuracy, etc.

DURR wrote:

does anyone here go to these extremes

 

Yes, they certainly do! The madness is right among us!

http://www.finescale.com/FSM/CS/forums/603760/ShowPost.aspx

DURR wrote:

... i was just wondering if any one here go to that extrme

After my long absence from the hobby, I was amazed at what I found for AM parts for my car models. I have a soft spot for a few cars in particular - 1970 Buick GSX or even just the GS dressing and 1957 Chevy Bel Airs both of which I've built a few versions of them. I have been building those cheap AMT and Revell kits, both of which leave a lot to desire for details but hey, they are only around $10. But I started looking at all the AM parts (mostly metal ones) - air cleaners, valve covers, rims, tires, headers, steering wheels, carbs, etc... Before you know it my $10 kit would have cost me around $50. Who would know? I would and the wife who would be nagging me. But who would see it since the hood is closed while on the display shelf? So I though, why not build like I always did when I was a kid - OOB. But I am adding some wiring detail and plan on some carpeting and fabric detail again (I've done that as a kid too).

What I concentrate on instead of after market parts, is making sure the kit parts fit together correctly. I've seen many pics even here showing great works, but the hood doesn't close all the way or some other part isn't lined up correctly or the paintjob wasn't smoothed out enough. I try to correct all those problems and get as close to a factory color as possible, unless I'm doing a custom car.

At first my wife didn't understand what the big deal was about glueing and painting a kit. Until she heard me cursing constantly putting together her '67 GTO AMT kit. Nothing fit right and I had to file, sand, make pieces, test and glue until I got it just right. Then the color she picked wasn't what she expected and I had to strip it off without losing the molded body emblems and details. She watched me hand paint the gauges and other dashboard details. When I was finally done, she said it looks great and she couldn't believe the work involved in a model kit. She said it's a lot harder than painting her white clouds on canvas. Now she wants me to start building a Mustang collection for her.

For me, that's extreme enough. Making a poorly fitting kit look good and maybe add a little personal cheap touch to it. That way I can save the money for more kits. 

Dang, this college thing is killing me. I'm starting to write essay's everywhere!
Sorry everyone...

Durr;

I have gotten back into modeling in the last year. I've read articals how a person would total go to all extremes kit bashing a model. I still cann't understand why a person would spend five or more times the value of kit just to buy after market parts to make a model look as perfect as the real thing. If that's what makes the person happy who am I care. My wife saids that I  get to" into it"when making a model plane,looking to perfect,too real. So I must remind myself that I'm building a representation of an object, not the real object. A little reality check is always good for the soul,It's only a hobby. 

 

tooler148

well i got to say i am sorry if my statement came across in a negative way

i did not mean it to be i was just wondering if any one here go to that extrme

and yes the model he did was on a scale of 1-10 an 11

i was not trying to make a put down

Rob,
Gotta disagree with you on the not looking for accuracy. I have had many of my models not only given the six times over with a jewlers loop, but been told that it is not "historically accurate", " not at all accurate", or best of all; "never flown in that configuration".
Perhaps I may have missed an ejector mark but that is not what I was told. I might just been lucky enough to get a judge that was an expert on my chosen model.

Don

I think we all have our moments of madness, especially if it's our "favorite" subject.

For example...mine is Fletcher-class destroyers. I wrote a book on them, have in excess of 5000 photos, am writing another book on them, and basically it's the only class of DD (ok, maybe Gearings and Sumners) that I'm interested in.

When I buy a Tamiya kit, it's basically for the hull and deckhouses. Everything else generally gets replaced with resin or brass aftermarket parts.

To the average modeler, building it out of the box is probably just fine, or maybe adding some PE railings to it.

But if you know the subject, all the little inaccuracies nag at you, and there's no settling for something you know is wrong.

Do I do that with other models? Sometimes, but usually not. Sure, I'll add details to a model because it's within the scope of the project...like my T-34/85 project.

I built the 1/16 Trumpeter kit with the full interior then decided I wanted to try the same thing in 1/35...so...1 Dragon T-34/85 has now turned into 2 PE sets, Verlinden engine and interior, Chesapeake resin turret, Friul tracks, turned barrel, resin stowage, etc...

That's what makes this hobby so interesting. Every project is different, everyone builds differently and to varying levels, and every thinks that everyone else is nuts! :-)

Jeff

DURR wrote:

i was reading another model magazine (i know i'm a bad boy) and the person building this tank model had gone out a bought an after market alum barrell 3 photoetched sets only using a couple of parts from each  fruel tracks and four yes four models of the same tank each from a different manufacture .his thing was 1 had the most accurate body, 1 the turret, 1 the wheels and suspension, and 1 for a couple of small parts. i know to each his/her own    but..... just a tad over the edge or what

DURR, if that's what the guy felt he needed to do to achieve the results he desired, then I don't think anybody can decide or judge it as "over the edge."  For you it may be, but for that guy, obviously it isn't.

This is a hobby, and as you so rightly said, its definitely "to each his own."

Personally, however, that's exactly the kind of info I'd like to hear...what four kits do I need to make an accurate (fill in the blank)? Then I can decide how far I want to go.

Like you said, to each their own. If someone has the time and constitution, go for it. Myself, I'm pretty particular within limits. Nothing will be perfect and if YOU are happy, that's all that matters.

dkmacin wrote:

Insane? To sit on a shelf at home perhaps, but to grace the pages of a magazine or pass the jewlers loop inspection of an IPMS judge. . .? Don

Judges don't look for accuracy issues. They look at the construction basics. Once in a while an expert on a particular vehicle will be a judge where that type of vehicle is entered, but that isn't normally a discriminating factor. They are looking for missed seams, glue marks, finger prints, crooked pieces, dust in the paint, etc.

I've never bought a kit so I could use parts off of one and graft it to another until last Saturday. I purchased a Dragon Panther Ausf. F (schmallturm) so I could add it to a spare Revell Panther Ausf. G hull I have. The Dragon kit has a nasty die cast hull and I had a spare hull so no real waste of kit here.

I don't buy aftermarket items for the sake of adding aftermarket items. I will buy a barrel if the kit barrel is inaccurate, badly made (oblong) or such (a real problem in older 1/72 scale kits). Same with PE. It will be added to enhance or replace missing or inaccurate detail.

Insane may be too strong of a word.  Obsessive, yeah, I'd go with that.  I can admire that level of attention to detail in others, but I build more just to build and get a recognizeable model when I'm done.  No one I know that will see my completed builds will know that Model X is 2mm too short, or the front slope is the wrong angle. But that is just me. 

But that is what is great about this hobby, to each his own and we can all admire and encourage each other's builds and skills.

Been there, bought the T-shirt...

In my stash at the moment:

Tamiya Tiger I Late, Eduard PE, Eduard barrel, and 3 Verlinden sets (Int, Ext, and eng), Fruil tracks

Tamiya M8 Greyhound, Eduard PE set, JR barrel, Verlinden interior, and 2 Verlinden stowage sets

These are but 2 of the 280 kits in my stash...most have Tank Workshop, Eduard, Verlinden, Fruil, WWII Productions, Jordi Rudio, Jaguar, Royal Model, Aber, or Voyager aftermarket accessories.

Maybe not quite as bad as the example, but hey...I've only been back in modeling for 3 years...

Insane?
To sit on a shelf at home perhaps, but to grace the pages of a magazine or pass the jewlers loop inspection of an IPMS judge. . .?

Don

that can easily happen if someone wants an accurate 1/35 M1A2...  insane you say?  oh yeah you bet that is.