running out of modeling subjects

You are Soooooooooooooooooo Right Durr. 

I think they should have something so all the people can vote and the top 10 of them should be made.

I would love to have a modle of a Tucker.

Bud 

Well those "big" companies do have marketing depts. But they look at the Asian market. The north american market is small to them. The other problem....here it comes.... is the whinny rivet counting bone heads. No matter how well designed the model, these morons(for lack of a better term) bash the snot out of it. This is plastic "TRYING" to represent an actual subject. Even with todays level of engineering and CNC machines, perfection is not realistic. To the manufacturers, they can not please the market no matter what. No matter what, it's wrong.  If there is a seam to fill, it's a horible kit.

Some of this may seem like I'm exagerating. I'm not. I was in the buisness for some time and read the reviews. This is what is reported back to the manufactures. These reports are from some of the early production models put out for reviews prior to release. Unlike FSM, most of these reviews rip appart the efforts of the companies. When a review says 'it looks right, good enough for me!' There is a cry for the reviewer to actually measure and find faults in the kit.

The companies do listen to the modelers. Tamiya would love (and I'm quoting Mr. Tamiya here) "to model a 1/48 scale B-17. It's my favorite plane. But we can not due to the licencing fees demanded by Boeing. It would make the kit just too expensive."

I think the reasons are too vast as to why certain subjects are never modeled. Too much politics and debate on markets to get into here. As far as the one's that re-issue kits with new decals. Great! I have several Phantoms and just got another cause it has the markings I'd like to do it in. That is marketing.

Drew

If they'd put out a wider variety, that would be nice. (Airfix anyone?) That's one of the things that I've noticed about the growing companies out of eastern Europe- some variety. I love, I mean I love, building Spitfires, Mustangs and P-40s. Still, I've got other kits in the stash, and of the 3 on my bench- none are those listed above.

The license issue sucks- but it won't go away. It might for US manufacturers, but not those outside of the US, I guess. That just stinks. And it's not even like modelers can boycott Boeing or others.

I also think that so much insistence on super accurate kits that are so over-engineered can hurt the variety. I like those kits, I really do. But I find the most relaxing builds for me are the 1/48 aircraft with about 50 or so parts. Nothing fancy. Maybe the fuselage is a few inches short to scale. Maybe it needs some filler.

The Airfix Spitfire IX I got from Squadron struck a chord with me. It's got a few problems- thick wings, odd propellor.... but it's a nice kit for about $15 US. Simpler kits that we're a little more forgiving of might help prompt variety.

Ultimately- the model companies have to adapt. 20 years ago, kids built models for fun and then put it aside. Now it's adults who will do it for years- and they'd love to spend their dollars on more kits, if there was variety. The eastern European companies seem to be taking advantage of this.

Wouldn't it be nice if it was like Dell? "I want a Commonwealth Boomerang in such and such markings in 1/48 scale with such and such accessories." Just pick your options. That would be cool.

Personally, I think most modelers don't care if its a bit off here and there. I know I don't! I like building kits that seem to fall together, but aren't overly simple. I guess everybody has there reasons for doing it, me, its to relax and an outlet for my creative side. I can work on a kit for a long time and have to force myself to keep going on it, but once it starts to look like an airplane, I start to get excited I think there is only so much variety that can be had with one given subject, aircraft for example, but I think the same kit with a jacked up price and diffrent decals is kinda dumb, although, I must admit I own the Hase Jolly Rogers cat, just cause I couldn't find the decals anywhere!

jwb wrote:

And it's not even like modelers can boycott Boeing or others.

Why Not ????????????

Bud

It probobly is true; new subjects are becoming scarce. But in all honesty, how many of us have the time to build them all? I'm not one that believes in the huge stash philosophy, but I know that theres plenty of modelers out there who have entire closets filled with models. Even if those are completed, that represents only a fraction of what a hobby shop contains. So yes, companies may be running low on new ideas, but I would love to find somebody who has built everything. Only he will have the right to demand newer products.  

Dubau wrote:

jwb wrote: And it's not even like modelers can boycott Boeing or others. Why Not ???????????? Bud

Your right! I'll cancel all of my 747 orders today!

I just meant since most of Boeing's products aren't consumer oriented, it's tough to boycott them. I guess you could.... but it's not like boycotting McDonald's or something.

Of course, a few well placed people could make a difference. See if maybe the president of Delta likes modeling!

Deffinatly a debated and well debated subject since the first few models were made. Personally I thought this hobby was destin for the crapper back in the late 80's early 90's. With all the hi-tech video/electronics on the rise. R/C was budding and growing to new levels. Even Tamiya (who I thought at the time was the top shelf Mfg.) was making their tanks and cars motorized/R/C covertable. I'm thinking, what kid wants to spend the time and money to build a kit that dosn't go anywhere or do anything but collect dust? But something happened, the cottage industry started to develop, and the scale auto sector was a big part of that. The Baby Boomers with their spendable cash said I want more detail and choices and started buying. The armour guys ate it up, the aircraft, ships etc., etc. folllowed. This hobby is still fairly strong today with the internet and all. Do a search on squadron for 1/72 airplanes and tell me that the subjects are limited?

gulfstreamV wrote:

Do a search on squadron for 1/72 airplanes and tell me that the subjects are limited?

maybe i should reword my statement to not include resin or vacuform kits  because yes they have some great subjects and some of the oddball (read limited run companies) i was referring to the giants of the industry

i also think that to add more variety without added (research and development)cost is for the large companies that make the 3 major scales in any given subject to make all their line avaible in these scales

ie: tamiya makes the 3 major scale of aircraft 32,48,72nd so if they make a model in 72 of say a f6f hellcat then resize (even without retooling for EXTRA high tech) to include 48th an 32nd yes some cost is involved but far less then completly diff models of totally new stuff  

this one thing would "help" keep the market from getting stale

I dont feel that there are not enough interesting modeling subjects available for the companiues to produce. . Just maybe not enough subjects to warrant their investing in the time, tooling and research to produce an injected molded kit of high quality that will make them a lot of money.  For instance, just log on to Anigrands web site and check out all the great aircraft subjects available in their line of resin kits. Sure wish some company that produces high quality injection molded kits would take a hint from that company. Maybe it is better they dont though, because I for one would be spending a ton of money on just about all the subjects available that Anigrand has in their line of kits. . Hint hint Tamiya, Monogram, Academy, and on and on.

Instead of focusing on new things, I wish companies would focus on improving existing kits, just like Dragon with their Premium kits.

A decent P-38 would be really, really nice....

 

DURR wrote:

gulfstreamV wrote: Do a search on squadron for 1/72 airplanes and tell me that the subjects are limited? maybe i should reword my statement to not include resin or vacuform kits  because yes they have some great subjects and some of the oddball (read limited run companies) i was referring to the giants of the industry

Well 'ask AMC, Chrysler/Dodge, GM and Ford why they build and retool and delete what they offer for sale. Packard, Desoto, Plymoth, Tucker, etc. etc. and  airfix, mergers, Lee Iaccoca, McDonell, Douglas, Monkey Ward, etc. etc debate., Nah lets just tell em what to build and call it good.

well i must say WE all have some good thoughts and interesting points of view here

 

 

 

 

 

 

gulfstreamV wrote:

Deffinatly a debated and well debated subject since the first few models were made. Personally I thought this hobby was destin for the crapper back in the late 80's early 90's. With all the hi-tech video/electronics on the rise. R/C was budding and growing to new levels. Even Tamiya (who I thought at the time was the top shelf Mfg.) was making their tanks and cars motorized/R/C covertable. I'm thinking, what kid wants to spend the time and money to build a kit that dosn't go anywhere or do anything but collect dust? But something happened, the cottage industry started to develop, and the scale auto sector was a big part of that. The Baby Boomers with their spendable cash said I want more detail and choices and started buying. The armour guys ate it up, the aircraft, ships etc., etc. folllowed. This hobby is still fairly strong today with the internet and all. Do a search on squadron for 1/72 airplanes and tell me that the subjects are limited?

The question is: are there enough kids and teens to keep the hobby going in the future? They are the ones growing up in the video and computer age, not us aging boomers. I can't think of single friend of mines kid that builds models. Yes there are some lads here in the forum, but overall, I'd say with no real proof, that there aren't many out there. I never see many kids at the LHS either. It will be interesting to see where the hobby goes in the future.

tigerman wrote:

The question is: are there enough kids and teens to keep the hobby going in the future? They are the ones growing up in the video and computer age, not us aging boomers. I can't think of single friend of mines kid that builds models. Yes there are some lads here in the forum, but overall, I'd say with no real proof, that there aren't many out there. I never see many kids at the LHS either. It will be interesting to see where the hobby goes in the future.

Scary point well made in deed. When I walk the model isle in Wal*Mart it's only adults, the kids head off to the noisy toys.

I'll add my even though I build car kits.

AMT stinks as far as quality goes, but they have a decent selection. Revell has better quality but less of a selection. Revell has been bringing back some of their earlier kits but throwing big _ss wheels on them and calling it the "California Wheels Series". And then there's the Muscle Car Series along with a few others. I mean come on, what's with the old kits just having new rims and wheels all about or the jacked up or lowered suspension? Give me some NEW cars to add to my collection. Hey, why not produce some of what AMT has? Why do I have to switch companies and scale sizes if I want a Corvette collection? What about bringing back the older kits and retooling the molds? What about all the newer cars? Not everybody is into tuners.

I think there's a few things contributing to the slow demise of the model hobby. Besides all the legal and licensing stuff the manufacturers have to contend with. Then there's the lack of interest among the the younger generations. But also the foresight and willingness among the manufacturers to produce what the hobbiest would like to see. I remember when I bought a car kit you could build it any of 3 ways. It included spoilers, extra rims & tires, decals, engine options, etc. There are a few kits offered that way, but why not more? Why make people turn to more expensive aftermarket parts? Include the parts in the kits, so it adds a dollar or two. I think the manufacturers need to be able to offer the older kits along with producing newer kits as well. What happens when someone new to the hobby wants to build such-&-such? Oh they can't get it, that was released in 2005 and nobody has it any more. That alone could and would discourage many new comers away from the hobby.

Just how I see's it. 

DURR,

Not enought subjects?  According to your previous e-mail you buy everything!  You're addicted!  On the verge of mental collapse from compulsive model buying!  Who could possibly make enough models to satisy that kind of insatiable appetite?  The model companies cover plenty of subjects for us NORMAL modelers who have only filled one (...maybe two) standard-size (...make that walk-in) closets with unbuilt kits, unlike those of you who are on their third or fourth mini-storage unit.  Remember, moderation in all things.......... and if you happen to have a line on a 1/72 scale kit (not resin and not vacuformed) of a Boeing B-314 Pan American Clipper, call me 24/7 and I'll overnight the payment.  Hope you get better soon.  Regards,

TomB 

If the companies are running out of subjects they need to go to a Motor Pool or Airfield and look around!

If your running our of subject ideas, perhaps you should make up a list.

What you have done, what you still like and what you don't. Then go and look around. If you have only done ww2, perhaps look at different era. If you only have done real life subjects, try sci fi/fanstiy. If you only have done models, try figures or scuplting.

You can also venture into the world of scratch building. I am currently looking at ideas for scratch building most major ships form the sci fi show "Babylon 5". Earth ships are the most simple with mostly flat surfaces (warlock is a good example), and other races such as the minbari look more "alive" with many MANY curves. You could build, sclupt or cast these from scratch. Basicly find what interests you and doesn't look overly hard for starting.

Then there is dios. If you are looking foward enough to the finished story the dio tells, then you'll be more modavated (and hopefully enjoy) to build that model subject.



Simpel version, think outside the box. You can creat simpely for the fact it looks very intresting, or for the story behind the subject (non real subjects can have fictional backgrounds that can be quite intresting and long)


O, and then there's the "what if"'s

i think 1 or 2 here have missed the point

i am not complaining

this was just an observation i have made the is based on 2 things

1 that WIsh lists are always popping up on the forum

2 when i read the various magazines,  catalogs and visit the local hobby shop and i see  x company has the same  f14 with the same old plastic in 4 different boxes with just a new decal sheet

 

this is what made me wonder that is all

I've seen various wish lists pop up in magazines with the top 10 wished for kits listed. I sometimes wonder if the marketing people for the major kit manufacturers see these lists. I think they probably do. The reason maybe that they don't bring out the wished for kits is the demand really isn't there to justify the investment. I'm sure there are a lot of modelers out there who have been hornswoggled over repackaged kits with different decals and special edition boxes. Yep, me too.

 

John

This is why I am a kitbasher/ scratchbuilder.

Truth be told, the various LHS around me earn a fair bit of my money. I still buy paint, plaster, and various kits for kitbashing.

That said, more than a few years ago, I realized that I was honestly having more fun making things from odds and ends.

Then again, I am in my thirties, so am not representative of a younger demographic, even though I grew up working from kits to develop my skills.

As whiffs are my favourite kind of modelling, I never need worry about lack of subject matter. I used to be a video game addict, but now modelling is my life. Why cpmlain when you could mix your own kits, like eddie miller. God, I wish I had those putty skillz!

i also like whiffs, but about prototypes. you know how difficult is to find a prototype about a Hs132 (jet divebomber) or the T-35. i also think eastern manufacturers are taking advantages about this. ICM makes a T-35 in 1/35. skif has a D-30 howitzer. ICM also has an Ilya Muromets WWI Heavy Bomber in 1/72. i've been buying some eastern manufactured kits. they arent bad, they are very good considering there's not other kits representing varied machines in the market

Sturzkampf wrote:

i also like whiffs, but about prototypes. you know how difficult is to find a prototype about a Hs132 (jet divebomber) or the T-35. i also think eastern manufacturers are taking advantages about this. ICM makes a T-35 in 1/35. skif has a D-30 howitzer. ICM also has an Ilya Muromets WWI Heavy Bomber in 1/72. i've been buying some eastern manufactured kits. they arent bad, they are very good considering there's not other kits representing varied machines in the market

yes the eastern kits are 1/3-1/2 the cost of the better ones and yes different subjects   i agree

Another thing about rivet counters. You know what I hate to here? "The cockpit in this kit is a nice representation of the real thing, but to make it look real good, I used an O-ries resin detail set and M-uard pre-painted PE". I mean, what's with that? You just said it's a really nice cockpit, and then you say it's not good enough to suit your AMS. I think that really puts the manufacturers off. Just my .

rudy_102 wrote:

Another thing about rivet counters. You know what I hate to here? "The cockpit in this kit is a nice representation of the real thing, but to make it look real good, I used an O-ries resin detail set and M-uard pre-painted PE". I mean, what's with that? You just said it's a really nice cockpit, and then you say it's not good enough to suit your AMS. I think that really puts the manufacturers off. Just my .

 

I think the only thing that puts off a model company is that they don't get a cut on the AM products.  They know a kit isn't a perfect replica and seem to have accepted that a long time ago.  It just wouldn't be economical to make every kit an exact, down to the last nut and bolt. 

I personally don't think it matters to the company if a person says they will need whichever AM set to make the kit accurate.  I think they just see it as a missed opportunity to get some much needed income.  Case in point, Dragon and their Premium Edition re-releases.

Glamdring wrote:

rudy_102 wrote: Another thing about rivet counters. You know what I hate to here? "The cockpit in this kit is a nice representation of the real thing, but to make it look real good, I used an O-ries resin detail set and M-uard pre-painted PE". I mean, what's with that? You just said it's a really nice cockpit, and then you say it's not good enough to suit your AMS.   I think the only thing that puts off a model company is that they don't get a cut on the AM products.  They know a kit isn't a perfect replica and seem to have accepted that a long time ago.  It just wouldn't be economical to make every kit an exact, down to the last nut and bolt.  I personally don't think it matters to the company if a person says they will need whichever AM set to make the kit accurate.  I think they just see it as a missed opportunity to get some much needed income.  Case in point, Dragon and their Premium Edition re-releases.

i agree with you glam  but rudy has a good point in the 1st part of his statement