why kids don't get involved

I've seen the same thing myself. I suggest to young modelers the pre-painted kits as they get to deal with the gluing and decals and end up with a very nice model with almost instantaneous gratification.

It appears that the uncle didn't want to spring for the kit. Was it Tamiya? 

I yell at them and smack 'em around and tell them back in my day we had to go out and hunt the forests for blocks of raw plastic to pour into our hand made wooden molds and they should feel lucky.

OK, not really.



That was a strange conversation.

I think kids respond to enthusiasm when it comes to modeling. They see someone having fun- and they want part of it. If you pooh-pooh every idea.... well.... that just ain't fun.

That's a sad story.

There is no way I would left the LHS without a kit for the kids.  There are plenty of easy build kits out there.  Any old Tamiya kit is a gimme.  And please....leave the inaccuracy problems for the rivet counter... not for the kids.  Just build a kit.

That's a shame.

I had a similar experience this past Sunday at the local chain hobby store (name withheld but has a "USA" in the name)...

Kid needs help in figuring out kits for a small D Day diorama.  Dad's up there, obviously more concerned about missing some football (even if the Vikings had a bye week) and says "Just get some kits, I've got things to do"... sigh...

The kid needs some help, and the way I see it, any kid in this age who wants to model something that is fast becoming a "policitally correct" footnote to US History classes around schools these days, I'm there to help.  I hook him up with a couple of decent Dragon figure kits (1944 D Day Rangers for one), some barricades from Tamiya, and the cheapest (read Italeri, in this case) Jeep... He wanted a jeep, don't ask me why...

Anyway, it's a real shame when the parents tend to find ways to dis-illusion the youth of today, especially when the hobby seems to be taking a back seat to the PSP, XBox, et al...

Anyways, off my for now.  The kid got his stuff, the dad got back to his "very important" Sunday schedule, and I left... empty handed (wedding in Hawaii in a week so I'm staying good for at least this week).

I have never actually seem a kid buy a model kit befor. The youngest i think was 18.

Ahh ya, that sucks...

My lhs has hobby classes - figure painting, dio work, airbrushing and I have attended about 3 and I was the youngest there, the next was maybe early 20's...

Well, it seems like there are people out there that want their kids to be rivet counters, and others who could care less! The problem I have is trying to get my daughter to pick out a model that is good for her age range (6) I know I will end up building most of it, but she paints them, and boy, does she paint them! I have seen scenes like that in my LHS before.

Dad, check out this cool lowrider!
No son, you don't want that, lets look at the airplanes?

But dad, I want the lowrider, its so cool!

the planes are much cooler son... almost begging him to not want something so childish it seemed!

I figure if the kid is passionate about lowriders, buy him two, cause he might just learn something, and he might find himself a trade he can pursue as an adult! Why is it parents must push their ideas onto their kids? I mean, if a kid wants an airplane, cool, but if not, that is their choice, why not the lowrider? Sometimes I wonder who the adults are and who the kids are! I am having a good day if I can take my duaghter and not have her trying to climb on the shelves and looking through boxes!

Ok. Now this is just sad.

I teach Art at a Jr. High school, as well as through a local community organization.

One of my considerations is : WHERE ARE THE STUDENTS AT?

If all or most of them at a "Snap Tite" level,then I'd better darn well teach ( with encouragement) to that level with the promise that they will eventually graduate to a higher standard.

"Ok Jim....That's really good that you got the paint to go where it should basically go."

"Hey Susan..Are you having fun? When you finish this plane, where would you like to fly with it?"

"Hey Barry, glue is tough at first. Did you know I blew up my first few models with firecrackers...wink...

By the way, Barry, Safety glasses were a wise investment at the time, as well as a prudent distance from the resulting "BOOM"

Just a few thoughts....

You guys are all right, a very sad story.  I have no LHS, but I am a kid (14) so I thought I would add my thoughts.  In my opinion, the uncle, Joe was both right and wrong.  For example, my first kit was an old tamiya halftrack.  It wasnt accurate Im sure, not all the fits were great, it had very poor detail, i mean, the tracks were basically shaped black rubberbands.  When I was done, it looked okay, too much glue, not much patience on the paint, some very odd fitting (both wheels cant even touch the ground at the same time lol) and Im sure any historian or veteran would scream if the saw how I built it according to taste not realism.  However, I had enormous amounts of fun, and was inspired to build more.  I think Joe should have let the kid build whatever he wanted, just like in this story, where i still had fun.  However, on the other side, my next kit was the Dragon Flak 88.  In case you dont know, it has around 600 pieces, most very tiny, some plastic, some etched brass, metal chain, turned aluminum barrel, thin twine/thread, difficult and confusing instructions, detailed bogies, the works.  If this had been my first kit, chances are I would have been overwhelmed and not given modelling a second shot which would be a shame seeing how much fun I have with it.  So the uncle did have a good reason from steering the kid away from over complicated kits, although again, i still had fun, and this one came out looking great.  Now, this said, Im not exactly normal in my school.  No, Im not the pale nerdy kid who you can tell sees daylight about twice a year, actually Im fairly popular, however I dont care much for peer pressure, and for this reason, I dont care much that modelling isnt "cool".  Suprisingly enough however, even the jocks and preppy kids are fascinated by my models whenever they are over, although they would never admit it to other kids.  I think this reason (not being a "cool" thing to do)  along with new video games and technology (I also, admit to being guilty of this reason) prevents kids from modelling.  It also helps to have parents who completely approve of anything model related for me and let me make my own choices when selecting a model.  Sorry this got so long, I just have lots of thought on the matter, being a kid and all.  So, I hope my opinion somehow made sense.

@IanIsBored2000

That was actually quite a intresting read. My parents where also quite open to whatever hobby i chose. They let me build a working catapult in the basement in grade 10, that thing could snap 2x4 oak like a tooth pick. This lead to both model building (much cheaper and requires less space and time) and my current cerrer in welding.

I think the biggest thing to encourage kids to have hobbies is to let them choose and encourage what they like. Much better to get your kids in say.. sports rather then model building instead of playing World of Warcraft all day and proably the night.

-edit- i don't know why my -edit-text-edit- is a light gray -edit-

ZzZGuy wrote:

@IanIsBored2000 That was actually quite a intresting read. My parents where also quite open to whatever hobby i chose. They let me build a working catapult in the basement in grade 10, that thing could snap 2x4 oak like a tooth pick. This lead to both model building (much cheaper and requires less space and time) and my current cerrer in welding. I think the biggest thing to encourage kids to have hobbies is to let them choose and encourage what they like. Much better to get your kids in say.. sports rather then model building instead of playing World of Warcraft all day and proably the night. -edit- i don't know why my test is a light gray -edit-

You're fading away!!!!!!

I have caught myself being like Unvcel Joe with my kids.  Yet I then think back to how my dad reacted to me building models.  He got me what ever kit I wanted, no matter what skill level it was, and let me slap it together.  If the tracks didn't fit, I made them fit with more glue.

Kids are not perfectionists, and that is why they enjoy life so much more.

We now sit at the bench, I pull out some kits, and we both just slap them together in an evening.  I found out is if fun to build like a kid again as well and being a perfectionist adult.

Scott

scottrc wrote:

I have caught myself being like Unvcel Joe with my kids.

<-- Guilty

It's hard at times because...

"Oh, that's nice.  I'm sure the British Cavalry would have liked their pink horses."

I know it can be frustrating because I don't know how many times I've told my kids to not dip the entire brush into the paint, leave brushes in the water when they're done, that brushes aren't markers and they don't need to mash it into the piece they're painting, etc ... they still do it.  It drives me crazy!  If it was only one kid I was dealing with, it would be easier, but with 3 of them, it's not easy.

scottrc wrote:

Yet I then think back to how my dad reacted to me building models.  He got me what ever kit I wanted, no matter what skill level it was, and let me slap it together.  If the tracks didn't fit, I made them fit with more glue.

Same here.  Well, except when it came to the models for his Lionel train layout, I could tell he wasn't exactly thrilled when I helped him out by assembling some of his kits for him.  I don't think I was much more than 8 years old, used the entire tube of Testors glue for one kit.  Classic case of glue coming out the seams, stringy stuff left all over the place ("it's spider webs, dad"), etc.  He didn't really say much, but I could tell. 

I think it's still on his layout though.

I hope this adds to the discussion, 'cause I think it’s not just about youngsters in particular, but to beginners in general.

Would you recommend something like a 1/72 Tamiya Hughes AH-6 Night Fox to a newbie?
Even if this guy would happen to be in his early 20?

Last week I heard this guy in the LHS telling to one of the shopassistents that he is an absolute beginner and did not have any clue regarding modelling. I did not hear him asking for a particular subject, being planes (prop or jet), helos or whatever. Later on I saw this guy leaving the store with this Night Fox. So, I wonder whether the advice of the shopassistent was ok. I’m not that familiar with helos, but I guess there’s a lot more greenhouse to these machines then to a simple aircraft.
My point is that, if this guy screws up on this model, he will probably be lost for the trade as well.
I feel a little bit guilty and keep thinking whether or not I should have talked to this guy. My only excuse for not doing that would be the fact that I was not on my own and I reckoned the shopassistent should have done his job properly in order to tie a new customer to the shop.
What would you have done?

Cheers,

Luc

well, i would recomend tamiya for a bigginer (add glue + shake = model) but i'd imagine that kit being a bit hard to paint. I'd have given him a T-34 or something like that.

The biggest LHS (size of a large kitchen) in my area (for roughly 1000km) is run by a couple, now it seems that the store is their hobby and have no clue as to model building besides what model builders would buy.

Two thoughts came to my mind when I read this thread.  The first thought was of the experience I had building a model with my then ten year old son.  I had some of my models hanging in his room for years and one day he asked if he could build one.  So of course I took the worst kit I had (airfix 1/72 Sm. 79) out of my stash and gave it to him because I did not want to waste a good one.  I helped him of course, actually, I practically built the whole thing with him slathering the paint on.  He totally enjoyed the experience and a few months later a friend of his introduced him to warhammer and he was off to the races.  Within a year or two, with the occasional modeling tip from Dad, I cannot believe the quality of the work he is doing.  Now I have to fight with him over my modeling supplies and tools.  My point I guess is that I don't think it really matters what kind of kit they start with.  If they like the idea of assembling plastic pieces they will eventuall find something that interests them and be on their way.
   
The other thought was when my Mother took me shopping on my birthday when I was about 8yrs old and gave me $20 to spend on whatever I wanted.  I thought I had died and gone to heaven.  $20 bucks bought a lot of plastic in those days.  There was no direction, critism or negative reaction just spend your money.  Not so sure I always do the same with my kids even when they are spending their own money .

With the exception of my 2 year old son, I've bought or given a model kit of some kind to everyone of my six children as well as a couple of their friends and to one of my nephews. I've got literally hundreds of unbuilt kits in just about every major genre (armor, aircraft, ships, cars, trucks, figures, sci-fi, monsters, helicopters, real space, etc.). Two of my children are interested in model building, one is a pretty good builder and has won several junior awards.

I have seen kids at stores want a kit that is beyond their abilities. They want it because of the subject matter or box art. If it is a subject matter that interests them, there is normally a kit within their skill range that is similar.

My daughter wanted the Tamiya Pink Panther Landrover, but I thought it was a little complicated for her. I gave here the old Monogram Jeep kit that was reissued by Revell for her to work on. Once she finished that easy to build kit, I gave her one of the Tamiya M151A2 Jeeps. A better overall kit that helped improve her skills.

After she had those two under her belt, I let her have the Pink Panther. She built it up real nice and won an award with it. She also won an award for one of the Jeeps as well.

Jon
Ill give you a 100% thumbs up on that one. Enthusiasm wins them over every time. I am involved with my local club, and each month we set up a display where we build, paint, display and interact with the public for five hours.  I am always amazed by the amount of older adults who love to check out our work, and children of all ages who love to look, but seem AFRAID to ask any questions. I am very dynamic when Im in public with our hobby, and I initiate the conversation, asking them if they have built models in the past, what they enjoy, etc.
Most of our groups that come through are scout or other civic groups. Only a small handful of them have ever built a model, and a couple have asked to lookat the parts because they have never seen anything like it!!
These are the kids that we need to reach out to, either by getting involved with the Big Brothers / Big Sisters programs and interacting with them for an hour a month in a focused group---usually six or seven children, using the same kits we use for makeNtake, or doing the same with scouts.  A month ago I got the opportunity to work with an 11 year old who had never built a model. He got halfway through a Revell Ferrari ( I think it was Revell, it was a ferrari and he was excitied, does the maker even matter?????)  He did the work, he glued the parts up, he did the tricky assembly, and he worked out the problems involved with rotating a three dimensional object around in his mind to match the illustration. This is NOT his strong points, so for him, this was real world problem solving, somehting he does nothign of playing video games and riding his bike.  His mother was VERY impressed with the work he did, since he has not done so well on his own before. 

When you can, take the initiative. Get kids OFF the damned video games and get something in their hands to work with.
Both you and them will reap the rewards in the long run!

David
Baton Rouge Scale Modelers

Zzz

Ill differ with you a bit here. When I was helping run building classes, we worked primarily with Revellogram kits due to cost and lowered complexity. New builders are not interested in recessed panel lines, the most accurate turrets, nor the $45 price tags. From speaking to many parents who supplied the kits, glue and other supplies, they were happy to buy kits and pay the price, up to a point.

We found that the Revell and AMT kits, while not shake and bake, allowed new modelers to gain experience at a fraction of the pricetag.  Our general guideline (and each was free to do as they chose, but I dont remember seening too many Hasemiya kits being built from our regulars) was the first ten kits need to be revellogram, AMT, Ertl etc with as much diversity as possible.  Those expensive kits always came along later, with even better results gained from solving some of th eproblems with the less expensive kits. 

I'll give you complete agreement on the LHS front. I have the same sad situation here.....and its pathetic that the shop owners just dont care about what thier customers are asking for.........and viritually no support of plastic builders nor the local club.

David

Ian, Thanks for posting!
Your opinion makes perfect sense!
I remember being your age, no LHS, no support and being the only kid that built models from the small department store downtown (small town, small store :-) ) Anyway, I started building around 5 years old, and it seems it was a Revell landing craft (Perhaps an LST? ) with lots of rockets and guns mounted on it that came off when i played with it in the tub.  I got it together myself just looking at the pictures, and considering I was 5, I thought I did pretty well! Its been my favorite pasttime ever since. I got my first airbrush at your age and went through all of the trials of learning to use one without any support network.  This was pre-FSM days ( I got my first issue of it in 1983) and tried and experimented.

I believe that we are in the golden age of the hobby....we are buying more expensive kits, they are coming to us seemingly faster than ever, the cottage industry is no longer "cottage" and my internet favorites list is full of aftermarket related websites.  I couldnt even imagine this years ago, but for kids today, when they look at our kits, they are often interested, even astounded but are often scared away by the seeming complexity and "hardness" of it.  So, they fall back on what they know, and what they grew up with, namely video games. Not being a gamer myself, and watching my wife play her online games they seem FAR more complex, but its a matter of perspective.
I am passionate about this hobby, but I do look around at what is going out of the doors of my not so local hobby shops. Lots of big boys toys, lots of big ticket items, and not so much in the way of lower complexity kits for beginning modelers.  All too often I have approached fathers and sons (and sometimes daughters :) ) in Hobby Lobby and talked with them, found out where they are in the hobby, and based on what selection is there, offered a recommendation. At the same time I give out my club business card (I make them for just this reason) with our meeting nights and website on it.

Share the hobby.  Get others involved with your enthusiasm! ) Stretch your borders whenever you can, and if you can get a chance to join a local club, make every effort to...it has its rewards, and its not just in modeling skills!

David

@ PatlaborUnit1

Yea, the tamiya/hasemiya/dragon kits are usually quite a bit more excpensive then regular kits. I quite understand that not everyone (parents, kids and building classes likes yours) can afford to fork out $50 for a single kit. I started out with a tamiya battle ship and a revell b-25, both came out at about the same quiality and turned out good right up to the point i added paint....... It would still be better to get a kid started out on tamiya but the cost difference with brands like revell compaired to the final build for a beginner doesn't justify getting tamiya. But if you got the money why not?

I myself don't like all the sanding and adding detail so i have a grand total of 10 kits in my stash, but they are all tamiya, dragon or hasegawa.


-edit- once again my text is all faded and i don't know why -edit-

It is the "at" symbol in your post. I think it is trying to create a giant e-mail address.

 Yours did it too, Rob. How funny.

                                                         -60

I've had one good kid-related modeling experience recently.  Last July my 8-year-old grandson came to visit.  My wife and I, having discussed the matter with his parents, made a trip to a hobby shop looking for an appropriate kit - one that Ben and I could work on together, and have a reasonable chance of finishing in a week or so, and that would be practical for him to take back to Texas in his carry-on luggage.  Having ruled out aircraft, tanks, and warships (in which he hasn't displayed any real interest), cars (in which I haven't), and sailing ships (due to the time factor), we finally decided to bite the bullet and shell out $35.00 for a Tamiya 1/35 "Triceratops Diorama Set."  (Ben sort of likes dinosaurs; I'd never built a model of one, but hey - how hard could it be?)

When I got home and took the shrinkwrap off the box I was downright astonished at what was inside.  There were about fifty parts.  The injection-molded base had great detail, including one corner that represented a pond - complete with prehistoric fish, frog, and a salamander, clear styrene sheet for the "water," and rocks to go around the rim, so the edge of the clear sheet was hidden.  A good-sized rock in the middle of the base was cast as a separate piece, to camouflage the sprue attachment point.  The accessories included a prehistoric palm tree, with paper fronds (pre-printed on some sort of tough, plasticized green paper, to be cut out) that were ingeniously designed so their attachment points were hidden.  And the dinosaurs themselves (a triceratops and two velociraptors) looked ready to walk off the base.  The instruction booklet (with separate copies in different languages; no confusion for kids there) contained an article by a zoologist (I had no idea that triceratops had roamed in herds across the Great Plains of North America), and intelligent suggestions about painting - with emphasis on the fact that, since nobody knows what color dinosaurs were, there's plenty of room for originality there.  (A couple of possible color schemes were shown in color on the side of the box.)  There was even a human being, dressed in khaki shirt and shorts, a pith helmet, and a pair of binoculars, to help establish the scale (though the instructions clearly emphasized that people and dinosaurs didn't coexist).

Ben and I got the model finished in about ten hours (well, I put in a couple of extra hours on the dull, repetitive parts late at night).  I showed him how to use an airbrush, and consulted him at length about all the color decisions and where to put the various components of the diorama.  (How nice not to worry about "accurate" colors!)  I made a foamcore box to hold the finished product inside Ben's carry-on suitcase, and it made it to Texas in perfect shape, to become the pride of the household - and the envy of Ben's little sister.

A few weeks ago I went to the hobby shop to try to find another kit in the same series.  (Apparently there originally were at least four; I think the bases interlocked, so you could build one super-diorama.)  It appears Tamiya is in the process of discontinuing them, with the usual explanation:  they didn't sell.  Squadron Mail Order apparently still has the Tyrannasaurus Rex set; Ben probably will get it for Christmas.

If you've got an eight-year-old who isn't completely bummed out on "Jurrasic Park" yet, see if your local hobby shop happens to have any old Tamiya dinosaurs knocking around.  Believe me, they're worth every penny and then some.

Just be careful when buying the Tamiya T-Rex. They did an old one that was fairly lame and a newer "Jurrasic Park" looking one which was pretty good.

I posted in the other related thread about kids, so will make this one a little different.

My sons: Robert(9), Michael(13)

I peruse various armor books (lots of pictures) with my sons, and we talk about which ones were fast, or more powerful, or cool, or klunky, or whatever.  They latch on to a couple that they really like, then I cruise eBay looking for an inexpensive 1/35 scale kit for them.  Regardless of the quality of their work I always look for positive aspects to point out to them, and relate my own difficulties with some techniques they are struggling with. 

I try to remember that people don't always remember the particular details of a situation or event, but they always remember how they felt about it.

I think that kids would get involved more with modeling, or any other hobby or activity, if someone were to share the experience with them.  Particularly one of their parents, a sibling, or friend or relative that they are close to. 

On Uncle Joe's behalf, I for one will give him the benefit of the doubt.  He could have been having a bad day, or had some other concern ($ or whatever).  I know that sometimes I don't fully realize the probable impact of my attitude or behavior on someone until after the fact.   For all we know, Uncle Joe brought his nephew back to the hobby store and let him select a kit.  I don't know, but I am glad that Durr started this thread, and I appreciate the thoughts and insights that everyone has shared.

Larry