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Recasting: is it ever OK?

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  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Huntington, WV
Recasting: is it ever OK?
Posted by Kugai on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 11:26 AM
I'm probably kicking a hornets' nest with this one, but here goes...

Among my grandiose schemes for projects is making some of the alternate ships for Star Trek from the "Jackill's Guides" and other books, as well as a few ideas of my own. I have the "triple kit" small-scale Enterprise sets and was planning to use resin copies of the engines and other parts rather than buy a dozen or so more sets and have piles of extra parts that I wouldn't need. Admittedly, the excessive cost and trouble of finding and buying those extras is also a factor.

So, my question is this: in your opinions, would making these resin copies be wrong? The "you're cheating the company out of money" argument doesn't seem valid, since the kits are no longer being made and Paramount yanked AMT's license; neither is losing any profits at this point. These copies will be for personal use only, so I'm not making any unauthorized money from the effort. This will also leave more of the remaining kits for other people who will use all the parts, rather than wastefully gathering them for myself and not using them fully.

Note: this is the ONLY use of resin copies I have in mind. I'm not planning on any other such copying of any other kits. My personal guidelines for this have been:

1) No copying kits that are not discontinued. Even if the kit is an unlicensed garage kit, to do so would be ripping someone off, and I wouldn't do that.

2) Any copies I make are for personal use ONLY. None are to be sold and I will not make any money from parts or completed models.

Now, if only there were a "wincing smilie" in anticipation of the scathing criticism I might be in for...

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 11:45 AM
I see nothing wrong with it. As long as you are making copies of kits (parts) no longer in production for personal use. Even if the kits were still in production I would see no problem.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 11:52 AM
Kugai I don't see a problem with what you're doing in this situation. Now if you were selling or giving away the copies that would be different. Of course the best option would have been to not mention it to anyone Wink [;)] Big Smile [:D]

Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Lyons Colorado, USA
Posted by Ray Marotta on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 12:45 PM
Kugai,
Obviously, you are an ethical person to have these concerns. I don't see any
problem at all with what you're planning since it's strictly for your own use with
no resale of the copied parts.
Ray

 ]

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Minneapolis, MN
Posted by rossjr on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 3:03 PM
I don't see a problem with it as long as it is for yourself and not a commercial endeavor, and that is where I think most ethical questions come into play.... Jsut my 2 cents worth...
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by cnstrwkr on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 4:12 PM
Kugai, its for personal use and enjoyment and I feel you should be comfortable doing it. I agree with Derek, even if they were still in production, you should still enjoy making them without violating any ethics.
Tommy difficult things take time...the impossible, a little longer!
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Brooklyn
Posted by wibhi2 on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 4:27 PM
I agree. If it's for personal use only, then you shouldn't have any ethical problems.
It's similar to doing figures where you may have repeated similar types for a diaroma
3d modelling is an option a true mental excercise in frusrtation
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Tuesday, September 9, 2003 6:14 PM
If there will be no monetary gains for you and no monetary loss for the manufacturer of the item you're going to copy, I don't think that manufacturer will sue you for it.

Especially if they don't know it. (Just kidding...)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:53 AM
I'll make it unanimous (so far ...). There is nothing wrong with duplicating parts for personal use as long as you aren't re-selling.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Exit 7a NJ Turnpike
Posted by RAF120 on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 5:29 PM
I agree with the rest, it's fine as long as your not making a profit and its for your own use.

P.S. we want to see pictures when your done.Smile [:)]
Trevor Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Thursday, September 11, 2003 11:35 PM
Kugai,
It's not a problem. I don't even think its an issue of ethics. So long as you are doing it for yourself. And not profiting from it (other than self satisfaction that is).
Just in case you were wondering though...
The issue is one of licensing. Even though Paramount pulled AMT's license of production, AMT still owns the rights to those existing kits (or any company that may have bought the liquidation of assets from a company that went out of business). So the licensing issue is one of AMT's design license of ownership for the kit and intellectual property, Paramounts license of usage and ownership of one of their "recognizable icons" and its associated trademarks. Several variables come into play and the laws and legal maze of copyright and trademark would send even Q off the deep end. Laws have changed protecting such properties and the old rules of thumb no longer exist.

I admire your ethical conscience. But your concern is unnecessary in this case.
I too look forward to seeing the end result. It sounds like quite the project. Good luck with it.

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Huntington, WV
Posted by Kugai on Saturday, September 13, 2003 11:47 AM
Thanks for the input, guys. I was just curious about this because of the results that I remember from FSM's survey about recasting. The overwhelming majority of responses seemed to indicate that the kitbuilding community found the practice not only unacceptable, but a "hanging offense."Tongue [:P] The catch was that the question as stated didn't cover the particulars of what I had in mind, so I thought I'd ask.

erush, you suggested "not mentioning it" to people to avoid trouble. I try to plan for any likely event and thought that it might come up if I had these on display at a con or something. For example...

Other Person: "Wow! That's a lot of starships! How many kits did you use to make all these?"

Me: "Umm, actually, just one."

Opie: "Just one? How'd you get all those ships from one set?"

Me: "No 'loaves and fishes' miracle or anything. I just copied parts from the kit."

Opie: "You WHAT?!"

You can see how this could go, given the general consensus on recasting as shown in FSM's pages. I'd rather find out in advance ( and with relative anonymity as a safety net Big Smile [:D] ) just how bad an idea it was to someday have to admit to having done it, even if not for profit.

Again, thanks for the replies.

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Saturday, September 13, 2003 11:59 AM
I'm with the rest, Kugai. Recasting for your own personal use bits of a kit you bought is just fine.
Heck, I bet even Lucas wouldn't object to you recasting a bunch of li'l snowspeeders to take on an AT-AT! Big Smile [:D]
And we all now how he can be...Wink [;)]
~Brian
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: NE Georgia
Posted by Keyworth on Saturday, September 13, 2003 7:57 PM
Kugai, if it's for your own use, there should be no problem and your conscience should be clear. I look forward to seeing the ships as you finish them.
"There's no problem that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosives"
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