good vs bad shopkeepers

Oh? Do tell..

don;t start about dress code and shaving man....that;s another sad sad sad *1000000 story.

I´d just be happy to find a store that doesn't regard me as a health hazard as I amble through the door (twenty something, usually unshaven, long hair, drives a shabby old (but very faithful and lovable) 4x4 or motorcycle.. But its me, and whoever doesn't like it can rest assured I take my business elsewhere. I know I´m a nice guy, Ask Shermanfreak!.), let alone have any knowledge about the stuff they're punting. It seems there's an age and dress code in this country. Unless you're 40+, fairly heavy in the wallet section and wearing a flat cap you´re not taken seriously..

Being in Holland, which is only 100 miles east-west, but denser than a neutron star, it takes forever to get anywhere (45 minutes at least to get from one town centre to another. We're talking a distance of 10 miles here..), so distance certainly is an issue for me. Unfortunatly I haven´t found anything yet. And thats just the basic plastic bit. So far I've found one or two stores nearby, but nothing I'd really want to visit, purely due to the staff. They usually make Darth Vader look like a warm and fuzzy guy you´de just want to give a big hug. Which is unfortunate, because one of them (they also sell mopeds and scooters, bizarly enough..) is actually pretty well stocked with stuff like trumpeter et. al. as opposed to the normal Revell toys. Its run by a hubby and missus.. I´m guessing hubby influenced the model side of things. She´s a flippin' dragon though...

I´d also better forget aftermarket parts, as nobody stocks them near me and I don't have a credit card, so that rules out internet trade.

The places I do visit from time to time are the model department in an Amsterdam toy shop, which is manned by an older guy who does seem to do a little modelling himself, though judging by all the trains, I'm guessing he's a RR'er, but I appreciate his kindness. Downside: Its a day trip for me and I´d really be spending some time over the weekend also doing some other stuff than sit in public transport (parking is not an option in the big High (before you ask, no I don't.. Have brains, will keep.)). Another place is not too far away, limited but good selection. Downside: Staff isn't that great and only one type of paint available.. Revell enamels.
Another is a place strictly limited to cars. Not such a problem, but hardly any kits and none of what I want (Landy's). No offence, but I really do think there are more cars out there worth reproducing than Jeeps, hummers, American muscle cars, Ferrari´s and Porches.. The staff is actually more enthousiastic than the owner, who lectured me on the decline of kits last time I visited.

Some places I want to try are another couple of stores not too far away, but if they´re RC, I don't want anything to do with them. I had several bad experiances with RC stores.. I'm also going to give the 'local' aviation hobby shop a try. They stock tonnes of AC stuff.. Both injection molded as vac formed. Also huge amounts of resin and PE, decals books.. The lot. Downside: They're to hell and gone (South African-ism for far away.. About an hours drive or so), the place is inhabited by an interesting mix of anorack plane spotters and aviation snobs (you know the type, an hour and a half of flying under their belt and they're claiming they're Biggles, with handlebar moustaches and huge arrogant ego's). Their prices are also something that shouldn't be tackled without abseiling gear.

No wonder kids prefer console games.. Only yesterday I advised one of my collegues to start his kids of 5 and 7 to start on a healthy diet of Airfix, to shy them away from the damn playstation their granny bought them. He said it wasn't a bad idea, but I doubt whether he'll do it, he doesn't listen to my advise any other time on other subjects I know..

't Is dire lads.. Dire..

Great topic!
I as a hobby store owner, and a modeler (all around hobby enthuisist) relate from both sides of the counter. Most of the bigger places w/ the letters USA in their name somewhere could care less. The only area I can beat other shops, is my customer service. We carry a small amount of plastic, but I will order anything any of my customers request and that alone sets me apart in my area. Kids coming in for their first model or first anything in the hobby world is my favorite job, it usually is a great time helping them get set up w/ what they need to get started, and if they have a limited budget I will make a little list for them of some other items they may need or want down the road as they get into it more. I have found both the kids and parents appreciate this approach and it makes for return business as well.

By the way, if you are in the Northern Virginia area and like plastic models, the two are Granddad's in Springfield and Piper Hobby in Chantilly. Piper is the place where the clerk builds his models there in the store and gives advice as willingly as change. The guys at Granddad's are very knowledgeable especially in the scale accuracy dept. I have saved gobs of research time there. Support your local hobby dealer before there are none.

I am extremely blessed in that I have about five hobby stores in my vicinity and two of them are superb with the plastic. They both are staffed by modellers and one only carries plastic models and does very well. It's great to see a store where the clerk stops painting his kit to srve a customer. He has a little work bench near the cash register and a lot of his handiwork as well as customers' in his store. As for the first incident in thyamis' story, I have before offered my own advice to a fellow customer whi is inexperienced and would have in that incident. Don't be afraid to help out a fellow hobbyist in a store. I've never seen a shopkeeper have a problem if the advice is sound.

leemitcheltree: I'm based in vic as well, not metro though. Just wondering if you could name those two outlets? I'm always looking for alternative sources!

Well I really don't have a local hobby shop, but I would like to share something from personal experience. Since I was a little boy I have done business with one hobby shop in particular. I remember my first time in the store, it was magical. As a matter of fact if it hadn't been for that store I wouldn't even be enjoying this hobby. My first visit with my grandpa was great they helped me pick out several kits and supplies. They took the time to explain how each product was used and invited me to come back any time for advice. I took them up on the offer and was in the store frequently. I learned everyones name and became friends with several of the guys. They were all grown men with an obvious passion for plastic kit building. I started doing business with that shop when I was 7, at the age of 22 I moved to Missouri and had to give up my favorite shop. At least once a year I would make a trip to see my folks and always went to my favorite hobby shop. Over the years a funny thing happened, the first 3-5 years I was greeted with "look what the cat dragged in" and we would catch up on old times over a cup of coffee. One of the guys would be gone, replaced with a new one who was also friendly, but not always a model guy. The next 5 or so years saw a staff that rotated toward teenage help that seemed more interested in their bubble gum than ringing you up, let alone helping you with a model question. Now Rider's Hobbies has went hollywood with a big new store in the swanky part of town, that would make Wal-mart proud. Gone is the little shop that leaned toward plastic kits, replaced by a train and RC selection that is huge. I guess it has been about 5 years since Nathen quit working there and now there isn't anyone that reconizes my when I walk in every year. I don't know why but I still go yearly and the saddness is almost overwhelming as I walk into that colorfully lit hobby store that I grew up along side.

Well,

On PEI we do have two hobby shops, both located in Charlottetown. First one is Leisure World. Not a bad spot but selection is limited as they are more of an all around hobby and craft store. We also have Great Hobbies, they do know their stuff and can usually place special orders for you. Shermanfreak & Upnorth, not sure what the Edmonton location is like except that they are mainly mail order and can get you what you would like. You may have to wait for a week or two for the order.

An interesting thread indeed!

In my experience it really seems to depend on the "professionalism" of the people involved and not so much on the size of the shop.

Some people only want a job and a paypacket and won't care if it's a model shop, Walmart or the nearest gas station.

Others want to encourage the hobby and take an active interest in what they do ; be it gardening, modelling or something else.

That is just people and most likely it wil never change.

Model shows are also populated with jerks as are some model clubs but mostly the people I have met there are willing to share their techniques and information for no benefit to themselves much like those who are here.

Me?
I just keep going until I find someone who is willing to look beyond the sale today.
Sometimes that takes some finding.

Cheers, Pete.

When I began building models in the 1970s, I obtained most of them (Matchbox kits) from my local post office. Obviously the owner didn't have a clue about the product, as it was just a side line and I didn't really care as I was far more interested in getting it home and finished before tea time!

As I got older I discovered chain hobby stores and in the UK, one chain ruled the roost (Beaties). They catered for plastic and RC aero modellers, model railways and Slot car enthusiasts. The weekend staff generally didn't have a clue (Most being on minimum wage), although you could generally find what you were looking for with a little effort.

On the surface at least, they gave an appearance of having an interest in the hobby, with completed models hanging from the ceiling (although close inspection was never a good idea). They diversified to the extent that really they just became another toy shop and ultimately the chain went bust and some of their stores were taken over by another company.

On the whole, I found these to be a lot worse as they were obviously just run for profit and the level of product knowledge was practically non existant.

It wasn't too long before most of these stores went the same way as Beaties had before them! Like many others, I started using mail order outlets prior to this and this dissaffection may have been one of the reasons for their eventual demise.

When I moved to the other end of the country, I was forced to look around for a new supplier for my plastic habit and came across a small family run business in Preston Lancashire.

I've always found the staff in Transport Models to be both helpful and knowledgeable. They had an excellent range of models, accessories tools and paints. They will also order in any specials or unusual items. If you're in the UK and the Lancashire area in particular, I'd give them a visit (Oyston Mills, Preston), as you won't be disappointed.

Other than that I use Hannants Website to order aftermarket decals and etched brass, and e-Bay for OOP kits.

I try to 'Share the love' so that my local store remains viable, and also to get the best deals for rare bits and pieces.

I'd like to think that the home grown industry and bigger players can coexist and carve out a reasonable living.

That's my 2 cents worth,

Rob M.

I think it really depends on who you are and who's working the shop at the time how you get treated. The couple of times I was in roundhouse, I was a kid and the fellow who was working the counter didn't want much to do with me if I wasn't an adult and intrested in model railroads.

On the matter of Moro Craft, the old guy who ran it for so many years took his time doing anything including customer service, but he'd chat you up and was always intrested in helping you find what you were after, if anything specific. I once went in after his son took over and instead of getting the usual " How are you today, can I help you find anything?" I got an indifferent "What do you want?" Didn't go back after that.

Some of the most pleasant customer service I've had in recent years had been at the Games Workshop outlets, I don't play the games, just pick up a figure or two for fine detail painting practice. Some places that sell the role playing game stuff will look straight down their noses at you if you treat their products as display items rather than game playing pieces, but the folks at GW have just as much respect for those who approach it from the modeling angle as they do those that actually play the games. I've learned a ton about painting and diorama techniques by talking to GW staffers and their always friendly, attentive to customers and knowledgeable on their products.

Upnorth:
Thanks for setting me straight about Old Soldier and Moro. I was at work while the kids were browsing, and so had another Senior moment when I wrote my post. That being said I must add that I never was in the Old Soldier.

Interesting how different people rate the same shops differently depending on circumstances.
Regards,
Bruce

Bruce:

The Old Soldier was Downtown on 102 Avenue between 105 and 106 streets.

Moro Craft was the one on Whyte, it was a good shop until the old guy who ran it handed the reigns over to his son then it all went downhill. You used to be able to find some real intresting stuff there. Moro Craft shut down about 5 or 6 years ago now.

On the matter of Roundhouse Sales, I had a couple of bad experiences from them and haven't been back in a number of years.

The worst thing about Hobby Wholesale for me is that its right near the unemployment office and the one time I was there, I had just gone on to EI. There it was, my hobby taunting my new found unemployment I've been meaning to visit again since working steadily again but I haven't gotten to it.

Outside of the general scale modeling of real world subject matter. Edmonton also has two Games Workshop outlets, one in Kingsway Garden Mall and the other in West Edmonton Mall for those who also like to build the Warhammer miniatures and vehicles. I prefer the Kingsway location, the WEM location can get more than a bit crazy and overcrowded at times.

Shermanfreak:

It'd be great to meet up next time you're through town if circumstances permit. My work is pretty crazy right now and overtime and weekend work isn't unusual.

On top of that, I'm trying to secure some English teaching work in Europe, so a lot of my time is getting taken from modeling and put toward scouring the net for jobs, or dealing with someone or another to cut red tape for the impending trip or just packing stuff into boxes around the house (including the models).

All the same, let me know next time and perhaps we can meet somewhere for coffee.

Shermanfreak & Upnorth:
The Old Soldier was just winding down when we were relocated to Edmonton in 1998 (Beaumont actually). While waiting for the house to be ready we stayed at the Campus Towers and the kids would walk over to Whyte Ave and spend hours in the Soldier.
The model RR shop I use is Roundhouse Sales. They have a couple of aisles of assorted plastic kits as well, and I enjoy spending time there.
Hobby Wholesale is good too, lots of selection and they are handy for me, being on Gateway.
Great Hobbies is the outfit that bought out Ken & Marilyn and I'm lukewarm about them; mostly mail order and unless you luck out and find certain staff on duty the service can be spotty. I go there for the kids' RC stuff though.

From reading the 'How old are you' thread there appears to be a few of us in the area. Maybe we should consider doing lunch some Saturday??

Woo-Hoo! Just realized this is my 100th post!
Bruce

Thanks upnorth ... I never did have any luck finding the Old Soldier through the years. Hey .... if you're in Edmonton, Bill (wipw) is still there until Wednesday. If you e-mail me I'll let you know what hotel he's staying at. Next time I'm heading that way I'll give you a shout. That gives me an idea .... oops ... scary isn't it.

For not being that big a town, Tulsa has a pretty good run of hobby shops. Four are within two miles of me, and they're all pretty good. One is mostly rc cars and railroad, but has lots of good modeling tools and plenty kits. There is another that is mostly rc planes, but they also have lots of kits, and some tools. One called The Hussar, has great figs and tons of reference books, great shop there. There is one other in town that is mostly kits and tools, very good shop. The kicker though, it one just outside of town, about a 15 minute drive, place called Top Shelf models. They have literally thousands of kits, carry resin and pe stuff. They stock all kinds of aftermarket stuff, tools, books, just about everything you could ever want. Best of all, they're cheaper than Hobby Lobby. I get amazed every time I walk in there (once or twice a week ) and can't spend less than an hour or two. I love that shop. I go there more often than I do Hobby Lobby, and Hobby Lobby is literally just across the street. As I get older, Tulsa seems like a better and better town.

madda

Shermanfreak:

I'm in Edmonton and I have to say, the pickings for good hobby shops here have slimmed tremendously in the past ten years or so.

If you want a decent selection of kits and supplies and generally decent customer service, Comex Hobbies in Kingsway Garden Mall is worth a visit, they're a bit overloaded with Gundam stuff, but thats just in my estimation. They also have a location in West Edmonton Mall, but if you're the least bit claustrophobic you might want to give it a pass.

Also in West Edmonton Mall, You'll find Kites and Other Delights, they're sort of a hobby and toy shop in one, they have a decent selection of kits and supplies, but they also seem to have a fairly regular staff turnover, so knowledgability from staff can be hit and miss at times.

There's also a couple of places on the south side, Hobby Wholesale and Great Hobbies. I've yet to visit Great Hobbies so I can't pass and opinion on it.

Hobby wholesale is more geared to R/C, but the one time I was in it, they did have a good selection of plastic kits including some rarities as kits go.

I don't think any of these places let you look in kits, but thats not unusal here that you can't.

Sadly, for anyone coming through the Edmonton area, you missed the best hobby shop this town had by a few years. That was The Old Soldier that was downtown. they had an entire wall of aftermarket resin and photoetch goodies the most knowledgable staff I've ever seen in a hobby shop and customer service that was second to none.

Hopefully this town will see a trully great hobby shop for the plastic modeler sometime again.

First our preface this by saying I was lazy and didn't read all the other replies....

Second, I have been on both sides of the counter in this scenerio.
As the consumer, I'd like to think that I know my limitations and strengths and even today I would not likely see myself following the advice of the person at Store #1. This person is clearly out to move merchandise or pad their commission. At Store #2, I find the answer refreshing and responsible. I ran across people like this recently when looking to re-enter the RC side of things. The employee talked responsibly and even stirred me to common sense solutions even though he didn't carry them.

As for being on the other side of the counter, let's just say that in both cases I would have opted for the highroad as was taken by the person at the second store. Yes it might cost you short term but long term you want to build and develop a relationship with the customer. You want to earn and retain their respect, once youd that loyalty tends to bring that person back. Case in point - I have three hobby stores near me, one is close the others are a bit of a drive. The one close is a Hobbytown (or paint store as I call it) the other two are full line stores. The other two stores have earned my respect and my loyalty, Hobbytown is working at it, but until they stop trying to be a toy department at a department store, I will probably never buy much more from them but paint and glue when I need it.

I guess that would make me one of the luckiest guys in the world, I live in the Toronto area and have at least four hobby shops in my area, Wheels and Wings on O’connor ave is amazing. They will hold kits indefinatly, are staffed by rabid modelers, will order anything for you, have “special “ discounts for members and you can stay and shoot the breeze all day and they encourage it! They buy out old collections there fore can get you rare stuff and they don’t over charge for them.
The only draw back is the owner works at fulltime job and the store is closed the first three days of the week, big deal, I do my shopping on Saturdays as I plan that day all week, sad but true!

has anyone ever considered compiling a list of hobby shops and rating them? With a little input from our members, we could have a very good database for shops across the world. It may save others the time and frustration of trying to find a good store in a new area, or even on a visit. It can also help weed out some of the less reputable establishments. Any takers?

demono69

Bruce - are you in Edmonton?

Wipw and myself were there yesterday and I haven't evre been able to find a decent shop there. Let me know which ones and where please.

you gave me food for thought guys....
i dont know about you but when i was a kid (some years ago)...lol....kit modelling was a popular indoor activity. Since the arrival of bloody game consoles i have seen the owled eyed kids multiplied (i mean dwelling in the dark with soar red eyes and twisted wrists talking about how the exterminated the bloody dragons etc.) i guess they feel the same about us when we talk about the right shade of wash for a ww1 biplane but what the heck we are cooler lol....

returning to the topic mail order allows you access to all the goods of the world but being able to actually see, feel and smell the plastic is another sensation ( sounds like a dutch x-rated movie...). Unfriendrly service is a big let down indeed.

When I was growing up in this town every small department stor and sporting good shop sold a wide selection of models. There was at least 8 places in a 6 block area. I got my paints from a stationary store and Goods Sporting goods store had a model contest every fall displaying all the entries in its window. Since then the town has grown ten fold.
Last year our only Mom & Pop hoby shop closed its doors. My choice now is Walmart and Zellers. I can paint my snap-it-kit either gloss black or chevy engine blue.

The nearest hobby shop is about 12 bucks worth of gas away and not a very pleasent shopping experiance either.

If this is a sign of the times we are all in a world of hurt...

My local shop isn't that local but the guy is honest and realisticly measures the patrons of his store. I watched him turn a couple away from an expensive and complicated ship model they wanted to buy for their first build and sold them a considerably less expensive kit that was an excellent starter kit. He could have very easily made the big sale, but he was interested in the future. As he told me, "I'll sell them the big kit later. But they'll be happier and end on a good note with the beginner kit. Baits in the water and the fish have to like it before they bite..." To me, this was all I needed to make him my supplier. The guy cared about success, both for the builder and himself. An assured continued existance.
His bane?....internet stores. Because of their low overhead, they will be the death of the mom and pop local shop. What internet store asked what your skill level was, or allowed you to open a box before buying. Or even went over the kit with you if you asked. My only regret with him is that he doesn't stock paint or tools. But like anything, I think experienced builders find their sources. My paints I get from a local craft store chain. Cheaper than mailorder and they offer a good selection of Model Master and Tamiya acrylics and enamels. My tools I get from other sources. Necessity is the mother of invention.

The few times I've been to big chain hobby shops I've left peturbed and with a less than happy experience. Little or no help, poor product selection, inflated prices and less than quality goods.

As much as it is debated and despite some of the deals you can get from mailorder, I still like to patronize the small business. Maybe because I own a small business and I want to perpetuate the entrpeneurial spirit, but more likely a small business has more at stake and wants your repeat business. So they act accordingly. Not to say they don't come with their own horror stories, but I have found that generally they seem to work a little bit harder for their money and it shows with the result.

Mike

all you guys who have local hobby shops are lucky. the one i used for about 15 years went out of buisness last year.i guess its tough on these guys, so now in stuck driving 35 miles one way to a toy store that has a model section or shoping on the internet and catalogs. sometimes it kinda stinks.

When I lived in Winnipeg I patronized a mom & pop store called Argus Hobbies. I think they may now have retired as they aren't listed in the phone book any more (I have since relocated to another city, so if they are still around I would appreciate hearing). They were dedicated to plastic kits, all shapes and sizes, and very knowledgeable.
Bert and Gerrie always made a point of encouraging younger builders. I wasn't into building myself at the time but I was getting my kids into it. Bert always had an encouraging word. He often 'forgot' to add the sales tax when the boys bought with their own money, and always kicked in some glue or brushes when Dad was buying. He kept a display case and was always putting kid's models in there. My son almost busted with pride when his 1:72 Snowbirds Tutor went in there. People like that are the salt of the modelling world and many shop owners can take lessons from them.

I was nervous about finding a replacement shop in Edmonton but there are a couple here that I am comfortable in. I miss Ken & Marilyn Huff's shop since they were bought out, as they were cut from the same cloth as Bert & Gerrie, always encouraging the kids. The new replacement shop is just not the same.

I have taken to patronizing a model RR shop for most of my tools and scratch building supplies, as I get better service from them than most of the other hobby shops in the city.
Bruce

The three biggest hobby shops here in Melbourne run to two extremes -
One sells heaps of models ( the most expensive prices, too) but provides no help with questions about subjects. They don't like to open boxes to let you have a look at the contents. Turns me right off, that does.
The others are staffed by enthusiasts who actually build models, and they know the answer to just about any question you might have. They never refuse to allow you to open a sealed box to have a look.........more often than not it leads to a sale. They recognize this fact and encourage these inspections.
I know where I'll go next time I want to buy a model.
Cheers
LeeTree

The owner of Hobby shop #1 did that poor kid a serious disservice. Shermanfreak is absolutely right - the poor kid will come nowhere near the finish quality of the B-36 in the display case and the hobby will leave a sour taste in his mouth.
If the owner had seen fit to sell him a Revellogram kit he probably would have a new customer for life.