a survey of sort on a/m parts

Rob Gronovius wrote:

I think you are all missing the point and chasing a tangent. If you read the statement the person made, he copies the Mono (Monogram) cockpit. That's the plastic kit cockpit and not an aftermarket item.

Not to split hairs, Rob, but there was also mention of purchased cockpits being copied. I read that statement as purchased aftermarket cockpits, but believe it is open to interpretation until clarified by the author. However, I am in agreement with the general consensus here, and that is that if they're copied for one's own personal modeling use, regardless of where the origionals came from, it's not that big of a deal.

I think you are all missing the point and chasing a tangent. If you read the statement the person made, he copies the Mono (Monogram) cockpit. That's the plastic kit cockpit and not an aftermarket item.

Copying parts of the plastic kit to reuse for yourself has been a part of modeling for many years. It is universally accepted. Copying aftermarket items, say a set of XYZ Company's drop tanks to use on other kits you are building is also generally accepted.

Additionally, say the modeler updated the Monogram cockpit to make it a later, more accurate version, and then made castings to sell, it is generally accepted if he makes substantial changes to the cockpit.

Copying aftermarket items to resell is universally denounced, even if the modeler makes the substanital changes.

DURR wrote:

bottom line is that even if you agree or don't agree with doing it, it is a fine line to walk on   i think we can agree on this point

Speaking only for myself, I can't agree on this point. As long as an individual is not copying a product for personal profit, not distributing copies of someone else's product to other individuals, and not otherwise infringing on a manufacturer's ability to freely sell their product to other consumers, there is NO illegal activity taking place. There are obvious exceptions, but for the vast majority of products on the marketplace, copying an item for personal use is completely legal. This is only my opinion based on the extensive research I've done over the years.

I'll use everything and anything, resin, PE, solder, copper cable - it really depends on what I need and what's available.  Sometimes, I'll have a PE kit and only use 2 or 3 pieces and scratchbuild the rest.

Now, as for the recasting, it's a pretty grey area.  It's more immoral than illegal since he's not selling it or giving it away.  Plus, I would think it would be a fairly rare occassion.  AM resin kits are designed to fit very particular model kits and scales (i.e. a verlinden kit that's designed for a Tamiya 1/48 probably won't be a direct drop in for a Hasegawa 1/48 - and they definitely won't work in different scales).  I can't believe somebody would make so many versions of a particular kit (i.e. 10+ Revell 1/48 P-47's) that it would cause the manufacturer financial harm.  As long as you're only making one or two for your own personal use, I think you're ok.

-Fred

 

J-Hulk wrote:

davros wrote:  PatlaborUnit1 wrote: I often copy a cockpit that I have purchased and use it in my other models (my Cobras are a perfect example, I copy the Mono cockpit for use in others) David Unfortunately; this is the sort of action that keeps the cost of detailling sets high. To recoup their investment manufacturers have to increase the price of their products because of the lost profits this sort of piracy causes.   I believe you're way off base with that comment, Davros. Copying and SELLING is piracy; recasting parts for personal use from parts already purchased is simply modelling. Next you'll be complaining that scratchbuilding parts is "the sort of action that keeps the cost of detailing sets high"...which I suppose it does, since no money at all is going to an a/m parts manufacturer for parts that are scratchbuilt by the modeller. The bottom line is that as long as parts aren't being recast for resale (or to be given away for free, even...like copying a CD or DVD for a friend), then there is no problem whatsoever. Piracy is a serious crime, and care should be taken with the use of the word. It's not a term to be bandied about lightly!

 

 it may  and i say may be ok in certain countries not all copyright laws or rules are international

bottom line is that even if you agree or don't agree with doing it, it is a fine line to walk on   i think we can agree on this point

davros wrote:

PatlaborUnit1 wrote: I often copy a cockpit that I have purchased and use it in my other models (my Cobras are a perfect example, I copy the Mono cockpit for use in others) David Unfortunately; this is the sort of action that keeps the cost of detailling sets high. To recoup their investment manufacturers have to increase the price of their products because of the lost profits this sort of piracy causes.

I believe you're way off base with that comment, Davros. Copying and SELLING is piracy; recasting parts for personal use from parts already purchased is simply modelling.
Next you'll be complaining that scratchbuilding parts is "the sort of action that keeps the cost of detailing sets high"...which I suppose it does, since no money at all is going to an a/m parts manufacturer for parts that are scratchbuilt by the modeller.

The bottom line is that as long as parts aren't being recast for resale (or to be given away for free, even...like copying a CD or DVD for a friend), then there is no problem whatsoever.

Piracy is a serious crime, and care should be taken with the use of the word. It's not a term to be bandied about lightly!

c: Both

It all depends on the type and level of detail I want to add. Additionally, I too would never limit myself to just P/E or Resin.

I'll use both depending on the level of detail I'm looking for. Some parts look better in PE, some look better in resin, and sometimes the kit parts will do nicely on their own. If I don't want to fudge with the poor fit of some resin parts, like for example a cockpit tub, I will use it as a reference/guide to adding scratchbuilt details to the kit parts.

PatlaborUnit1 wrote:

I often copy a cockpit that I have purchased and use it in my other models (my Cobras are a perfect example, I copy the Mono cockpit for use in others) David

Unfortunately; this is the sort of action that keeps the cost of detailling sets high. To recoup their investment manufacturers have to increase the price of their products because of the lost profits this sort of piracy causes.

 

I'll agree that often what we get with PE is not that great....like representing cylindrical components with a flat peice of PE.  machine gun belts are the most common example, where the 3D round is represented by the flat PE and you are supposed to buiild up layers of paint to represent the thickness. Now Adlers Nest has bullets in 1/35 but they are awful pricey!

 I make lines and such from wire and solder and often forgo much of a PE set because I can make my own better, and it may even be easier to work with than trying to manipulate the pE.

 

David

DURR wrote:

J-Hulk wrote:  DURR wrote: if using  a/m parts on your model and yes i know it probably depends on the specific model for example  i would use p/e on a ship but not on a car in general do you choose a  resin b  p/e c both   In general, I use whatever I need to get the results I want, be it resin, PE, Corn Flakes, or whatever. Why would you use PE on a ship but not a car, DURR? I've seen some beautiful windshield wipers done in PE, as well as tons of engine and suspension parts...even logos. Your choice, of course, but why should we limit ourselves like that?   Brian i think the reason for me anyway is two-fold,   1 because of the bad exp with the trumpeter models p/e  all the hinges are  hard to use and too delicate for using that i don't use them.   2 i tend to use homemade stuff on cars instead like for the wiring gaslines etc.... and homemade  imo does not work on ships or armor etc as well as it does on cars

 

Gotcha. Sometimes home-made is the way to go, for sure...that's why I mentioned Corn Flakes in my reply. Actually, I've never used Corn Flakes in my modeling, but the point was I would "use anything" to get the results I want.
But you specifically asked "if using a/m parts on your model..." so I didn't think you were including scratchbuilt stuff as one of your choices. You only offered resin or PE.

So my answer is still the same: PE, resin, anything! The only limit is the imagination.

J-Hulk wrote:

DURR wrote: if using  a/m parts on your model and yes i know it probably depends on the specific model for example  i would use p/e on a ship but not on a car in general do you choose a  resin b  p/e c both   In general, I use whatever I need to get the results I want, be it resin, PE, Corn Flakes, or whatever. Why would you use PE on a ship but not a car, DURR? I've seen some beautiful windshield wipers done in PE, as well as tons of engine and suspension parts...even logos. Your choice, of course, but why should we limit ourselves like that?

Brian i think the reason for me anyway is two-fold,   1 because of the bad exp with the trumpeter models p/e 

all the hinges are  hard to use and too delicate for using that i don't use them.

  2 i tend to use homemade stuff on cars instead like for the wiring gaslines etc....

and homemade  imo does not work on ships or armor etc as well as it does on cars

DURR wrote:

if using  a/m parts on your model and yes i know it probably depends on the specific model for example  i would use p/e on a ship but not on a car in general do you choose a  resin b  p/e c both

In general, I use whatever I need to get the results I want, be it resin, PE, Corn Flakes, or whatever.

Why would you use PE on a ship but not a car, DURR? I've seen some beautiful windshield wipers done in PE, as well as tons of engine and suspension parts...even logos. Your choice, of course, but I can't understand why you'd want to limit yourself like that.

depending upon my mood, time involvment and what I plan on doing to the kit, I will obtain resin and PE upgrades for a kit.  I will use PE if there is no resin avialable (such as a few years ago when the only update for the Mono EA6B kit was the True Details ICAP III set, then the Verlinden overpriced cockpit set came along).

I often copy a cockpit that I have purchased and use it in my other models (my Cobras are a perfect example, I copy the Mono cockpit for use in others)

Cars will often get PE details, often for uses other than what the maker intended.   SciFi/Gundam/Anime girls get everthign I can throw at them......

 

David

Depends on what I need done. Some armor kits really benefit from the use of PE to replicate grills, headlight guards, etc. I use resin normally when I am building some sort of conversion like add on armor, maybe a resin mantlet cover or something similar.

I have used PE on a car. I've built a Nascar kit and used some PE components for the front grill area, hood tie downs, and some clips for the windshield.