Why was "great models cust service p**** me off" thread locked?

Thanks for the clarification, Matthew. I think I "knew" about that FSM policy but had forgotten.

Now, about those enhancement pills ... I'm sensing a marketing opportunity if we could package them with something modeling-related. Sanding sticks, maybe?

Ok, gentlemen, it appears a little clarification is in order.

First, as I explained, the best way to get satisfaction is to deal with the company directly. Complaining here won't get you results, generally, beyond the satisfaction of venting a little.

Here's the important part: FSM and Kalmbach have a very strict policy when it comes to advertising. Flip through the magazine and you won't find an products, etc., that aren't related to the hobby. No alcohol, no tobacco, no "enhancement" pills. It's all related to the hobby, and family friendly.

However, if one of our advertisers fails to meet your expectations and deliver what they promised. let our customer service department know. Our readers are the most important thing to us, and if someone who's advertising in our magazine isn't treating your failrly, let us know and we'll step in on your behalf. We'll make sure the situation gets resolved. Advertisers who don't deliver aren't allowed to advertise anymore. If they're in FSM you can believe they're an up-and-up company, and if they're not, we'll kick 'em out..

From the IPMS Nats,

Matthew Usher
Editor, FSM

OK  I GET IT  i used a bad word in the title etc etc etc

i wish they would just delete that post and this and all the other compalint posts (and there are dozens out there like mine) and we can get on with life

 

until today i did not even know it was locked  because it was one of those posts i made that i just gave up on    just as i am commenting here and am going to drop the subject

Gigatron wrote:

So what you're saying is, is that when a company pays to advertise here, they're not only buying advertising space and potential business, but they're also buying the ability to treat customers poorly without fear of retribution. What a world -Fred

No, what I'm saying is if GM has treated you badly, take it up with Loic. Don't come and show us the dirty laundry. Advertising with FSM doesn't give anyone the ability to treat customers poorly without fear of retribution. Just as registering with the forums doesn't give anyone the right to post threads that are bad-mouthing companies.

What I'm saying is FSM has the sole discretion as to what happens on these forums. Period. As I said, the thread was locked, so it can't be added to. It wasn't deleted, so it can still be read. As are ALL the forums complaining about poor customer service, and it's not just GM. ALL companies have bad days and SOME customers have bad experiences. These forums are not about complaining about other companies, for which the Admins and Editors have no control. It's about building models.

FWIW I've only used GM a couple of times, and both times have been fine experiences. 

Some of you are completely missing the point.  FSM is a business.  It is run like a business.  It's about pulling in more money than they have to spend to generate the money.  That's it.  That's all that matters to the people who run the magazine.  That's how their success is evaluated.  It's about subscription sales, and it's about advertising dollars.  That's it.  Everything else is secondary.

It's not about the modeling community, it's not about open and honest communication between fellow modelers and those in the modeling business.  It's not about being part of the greater modeling community.  It's all about business.  I learned that lesson the hard way from the management here..... that is all that matters to them.  I was threatened with banning for merely helping two other members by privately giving them the link to go to another modeling website's forums (which they were already members of by the way).  I was accused of promoting a competitor (when I was just helping out two buddies....).  That was a big eye opener to me about the priorities here. 

So... given that, how do you honestly think they're going to handle posts and threads that bash advertisers that pay them money to advertise in their magazine and on their website?

You're preaching to the choir though as we (the forum members) are all part of the greater modeling community and feel there is value in letting others know when there are problems with a business.  However, to get the true picture of how reputable a business is, then those who have had good experiences need to chime in as well so as to paint a balanced picture of that business.  I for one have had great experiences with Great Models and order from them at least every month or two with no problems. 

Some of the comments you all have expressed here should be taken to heart by the individuals that run the website and the magazine, but I personally believe that it will always be run as a business.  Funny thing is, if their priority was the modeling community, the subscriptions sales and therefore advertising dollars would follow.  Oh well.......

 

Bgrigg wrote:

But this isn't just any modeling forum. This is the Finescale Modeling® Forum, and isn't subject to the Constitution. It only answers to what the owners, publishers, editors and administrators of Kalmbach Publishing wants. We are guests, registered guest, perhaps even subscribers, but guests nonetheless. We can play within the rules or find another playground. That is the choice we get. There have been many threads about poor service: GM, Squadron, Internet Hobbies, Hobby Link and many others have all had threads about them. But Durr used a poor choice of words, started naming names, and posted her email. The thread was up and active for over a month before Matt locked it, and he only locked it. He could have deleted it entirely. Actually, he SHOULD have deleted it, IMHO. This is not a forum for reviews, or complaints. It is a forum for like-minded individuals to get together and offer advice, tips, techniques, critiques and encouragement. We start to diss the advertisers (whether or not it's warranted) and we will quickly find out who is paying the piper, and it ain't us. Remember we're only guests. We were invited in, and we can all be invited out just as easily! I don't necessarily agree with it myself. But I recognize what it is and make my choices based on that.

 

So what you're saying is, is that when a company pays to advertise here, they're not only buying advertising space and potential business, but they're also buying the ability to treat customers poorly without fear of retribution.

What a world

-Fred

 

There's been quite a few threads where Great Models has been discussed. Many times, it wasn't in a favorable light. Many people have had a hard time with them. However, the thread in question wasn't worded in a way the moderators of the forum appreciate.

espins1 wrote:

Not to mention that Great Models advertises with FSM.  I'm sure the FSM marketing people are less than thrilled about threads or posts that portray any of their advertisers in a bad light......

That was my first thought after the thread was locked. How very sad.

But this isn't just any modeling forum. This is the Finescale Modeling® Forum, and isn't subject to the Constitution. It only answers to what the owners, publishers, editors and administrators of Kalmbach Publishing wants. We are guests, registered guest, perhaps even subscribers, but guests nonetheless. We can play within the rules or find another playground. That is the choice we get.

There have been many threads about poor service: GM, Squadron, Internet Hobbies, Hobby Link and many others have all had threads about them. But Durr used a poor choice of words, started naming names, and posted her email. The thread was up and active for over a month before Matt locked it, and he only locked it. He could have deleted it entirely. Actually, he SHOULD have deleted it, IMHO.

This is not a forum for reviews, or complaints. It is a forum for like-minded individuals to get together and offer advice, tips, techniques, critiques and encouragement. We start to diss the advertisers (whether or not it's warranted) and we will quickly find out who is paying the piper, and it ain't us. Remember we're only guests. We were invited in, and we can all be invited out just as easily!

I don't necessarily agree with it myself. But I recognize what it is and make my choices based on that.  

Hey, I took the initial post as one guy's rant against a particular company. What - if anything - was questionable about it doesn't even really concern me.

We are all capable of independent thought, and before I even think about ordering from a company for the first time, I search the threads in FSM to read the comments about it - good and bad, hysterical blatherings and reasoned statements - and then use all of that to form my own independent assessment about whether or not I want to drop some of my hard earned cash with them. Everyone has their point of view/agenda, but consistent patterns for each company will almost always emerge if you take the time to winnow through the wheat and the chaff.

If threads about some merchant are locked after a few postings, we're all going to lose, gentlemen. Whether or not a certain company is a long standing advertiser in FSM should not be used as the basis for locking a thread, any more than whether or not you prefer to date blondes or brunettes should dictate who your potential future mate should be. That's all I was questioning.

 

 

Bgrigg wrote:

Rich.Carpenter wrote: I agree, Bgrigg. Starting a thread here with something along the lines of, "I had a bad experience with [insert merchant] the other day and was wondering if it was just one of those things, or if others have had trouble with them as well" would have been productive. Merely venting over what may or may not be an isolated incident isn't so much. I think we would all like to know about a merchant who regularly employs questionable CS practices, but no merchant should be labelled as such on one account. I think we would all do well to try an maintain some perspective and objectivity with these matters. Level heads prevail.  Precisely!

I agree completely!

Not to mention that Great Models advertises with FSM.  I'm sure the FSM marketing people are less than thrilled about threads or posts that portray any of their advertisers in a bad light......

Rich.Carpenter wrote:

I agree, Bgrigg. Starting a thread here with something along the lines of, "I had a bad experience with [insert merchant] the other day and was wondering if it was just one of those things, or if others have had trouble with them as well" would have been productive. Merely venting over what may or may not be an isolated incident isn't so much. I think we would all like to know about a merchant who regularly employs questionable CS practices, but no merchant should be labelled as such on one account. I think we would all do well to try an maintain some perspective and objectivity with these matters. Level heads prevail.

Precisely! 

I agree, Bgrigg. Starting a thread here with something along the lines of, "I had a bad experience with [insert merchant] the other day and was wondering if it was just one of those things, or if others have had trouble with them as well" would have been productive. Merely venting over what may or may not be an isolated incident isn't so much.

I think we would all like to know about a merchant who regularly employs questionable CS practices, but no merchant should be labelled as such on one account. I think we would all do well to try an maintain some perspective and objectivity with these matters. Level heads prevail.

 

 

I don't know if "victimized" is the appropriate term here. All we are seeing is one side of the story.

I think these threads can become "female dog" sessions pretty quickly, and people get angry, profane or abusive. The merchant involved has no ability to pubically defend themselves. The forums are to encourage modeling, not to become a consumer reports forum. Great Models is a long standing advertiser of the magazine, and I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.

Frankly, I'm surprised it stood for such a long time. Had I been the admin it would have been deleted entirely and shortly after it was posted. Durr may or may not have been ripped off, but we don't know that, only what he has posted.

Good question and I asked myself the same exact thing.

Apparently the mods decided that complaining on the forums wasn't going to solve Great Models' customer service issues.  And on that, they are correct.

But, what they overlooked was the fact that if one person had an issue, maybe several people have had issues, but never thought to voice their concerns. 

If one person has an issue, I'd say "meh, it was a fluke.  Things happen".  If dozens of people are voicing the same complaints, I'd really reconsider doing any business withe company in question. 

Personally, I feel that you can't go locking threads just because some comapn's feelings might get hurt.  As a corporate entity that's sole purpose is to cater the general public, I think that they should be outed if their business practices aren't what they should be.

But, that's just me...

-Fred