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AM syndrome.....?

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  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: The cornfields of Ohio
AM syndrome.....?
Posted by crockett on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:47 AM

I just wanted to share an observation and get some other opinions on this. The subject; aftermarket items, PE, resin and the like, and thier respective application.

First, I think this AM revolution has changed the dynamic of the hobby, sort of "raising the bar" so to speak. Straight OOB builds seem to get the ho-hum treatment on the boards.

I feel that before long we will have a 'OOB only' category on the boards. Maybe not a bad idea now?

I recently saw an armor build on another board. The model had an excellent finish, was pretty accurate and overall was well done....But, the PE was mixed with kit parts, making a really funky presentation, you know, some PE cables, but no tool clamps (PE), just the plastic "blobs" that came with the kit, etc..

My point is, that I think some builders are ignoring basic "modeling 101" details and proper construction, then adding some AM items and overconcentrating on them, thus opening up a flood of comments that aren't always flattering. It seems the perception is "if I buy AM stuff, I will have a better model" is permeating the beginner and intermediate levels of the hobby, IMHO

What do you think?

Steve

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by Gigatron on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 8:27 AM

It's like anything else, knowing when to use it is as important as knowing how to use it.

Anybody can buy an AM set, not everybody understands the best time to use it.  Sometimes, the kit part is actually better than the AM part, sometimes, not.  If you don't get why you're replacing a part or adding detail, then maybe you shouldn't.

I usually get PE sets to add extra detail, not to replace existing detail.  But I also get resin sets like cockpits and gun bays or wheel bays and those look tons better than any PE kit could add to the OOB set.

But, like I always say, buying a ferrari doesn't make you a better driver.

-Fred

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:45 PM

You can add all the AM you want, but if your paint/cammo job and weathering sucks, so does the overall model itself, thus wasting all the money on the upgrades. MHO

I for one don't use much AM, except for grilles and occasionally, Cavalier zimmerit, because I'd rather spend the money on more kits. Tracks of course can be a necessary upgrade from one-piece to indies. I can't understand money on AM barrels. Just seems a waste to me.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 6:30 AM

i am an oob builder 99.99 % of the time. although have used p/e rails on a couple of ships but that is about it.  i say if it is viewable it is OK.

the thing that is crazy is to use AM parts that will not be seen by anyone. the "i know it is there" argument is senseless waste of money and time

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 6:37 AM

I some times use aftermarket, it really depends on how good the kit is, scale, etc etc. There are a lot of factor for me to decide if I am gooing to se an AM product.

I mostly build aircraft and a better seat and harnas can do a lot for the look of the whole cockpit.

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: West Virginia, USA
Posted by mfsob on Wednesday, September 12, 2007 11:14 AM

Aftermarket PE is what gives my 1/700 ship models their "wow" factor, but I agree it is very, very easy to think you need to spend as much, if not more, on AM bits than you did on the original kit.

My current build is Academy's 1/72 Mustang. Before getting started I skimmed through all the AM available for this kit at squadron.com ... and discovered I could easily spend $40 or more on my $12 model. Most if which would go in the cockpit, and would never be seen unless you got within about 2 inches of same. I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money to decorate less than 1 cubic inch of space - and besides, I wanted to try my hand at scratchbuilding a harness. The only AM bit I got was a set of the vacuformed canopies, because 1) Never used one and wanted to try it, and 2) I wanted to pose the canopy open so you could actually see inside.

How all of this will turn out, I have no idea. But I know that I will get a lot more satisfaction out of saying, "I did all that by myself" as opposed to, "I just glued all that in."

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posted by m1garand on Friday, September 14, 2007 6:59 PM
I'm not really into AM stuff since my skill do not justify it.   I'm still learning phase, but would love to buy some AM parts to convert existing kits into something special.  I've been thinking about starting to add Cavalier Zimmerit for my German armor in near future. 
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Abbotsford, B.C. Canada
Posted by DrewH on Friday, September 14, 2007 8:17 PM

I build both OOB and loaded with AM goodies. The level of detail I want to put into the kit depends on the kit itself and the subject I am building. If it is a subject that has very important historical significance to me (and sometimes only to me) I will load up the details to make as accurate a representation as I can. Other times the subject just calls to me, and I want to have one on my shelf anyway. So OOB it is. Trumpeters F9F-2P Panther was just "I want one." so it was built OOB. The Hasagawa Starfighter I built last year, was loaded up with as much as I dared to use. The model I built represented one my old CO (with the same last name as me tooWink [;)]) flew in the mid '70's. He was one of the highest time pilots in the Starfighter in Canada.

But then again, that's just meWhistling [:-^]

Take this plastic and model it!
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Pensacola, FL
Posted by Foster7155 on Saturday, September 15, 2007 9:13 AM

Steve,

You raise some interesting points. There can be little doubt, as modelers, that we are living in a golden age of the hobby. There are a huge number of extremely well manufactured kits, more aftermarket accessories and upgrade sets than ever before, and - not to be discounted - a massive amount of readily available information in the form of model magazines, reference books, and the Internet.

My own personal view is that the "learning curve", whether a modeler is just starting out in the hobby or returning after a layoff, has been reduced dramatically. A brand new modeler today has the opportunity to produce the same quality model in weeks that it would have taken a modeler in the 1970's months or perhaps years to produce. However, having the opportunity is not, by itself, a good thing. There are many "Modelling 101" skills that cannot be learned without months of practice or trial and error and no quantity of A/M products can ever change that fact. By simply swapping out kit parts for A/M replacements - right from Day 1 - some modelers have not yet learned the specific skill-sets needed to do things like scratch-build better quality parts, thin oversized parts to scale, and modify the shape or detail of kit parts. IMHO, these are all skills that every modeler should have in their toolbag.

I do have to disagree somewhat with your impression of OOB getting "ho-hum treatment". Perhaps this does happen from time to time, but it's really dependent on the overall quality of the specific build. I've personally seen many OOB models that absolutely blow me away, but then I've always believed (and still do) that the finish on a model is worth at least 50% (perhaps 60%) of the overall quality of a build. This is where I think some modelers today are selling themselves short. By focusing on A/M products some modelers have sacrificed improving - or have not yet learned to improve - the finish on their models and this is huge error. No quantity of A/M products can ever improve the overall quality of a model with a substandard finish.

Thanks for posting this extremely important question, Steve. The appropriate and proper use of A/M products is a subject that should be discussed far more often.

Regards,

Robert Foster

Pensacola Modeleers

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by Gigatron on Monday, September 17, 2007 8:53 AM

Foster,

You do have to admit, that sometimes, there does appear to be almost a peer-pressure like mentality to use AM parts.  Whether it's the AM build that gets 1000 posts compared to an OOB build that gets 10, or suggestions in an OOB build thread on how an AM upgrade could have really helped bring more realism to the build.

Now granted, I grew up in a time when aftermarket parts were unheard of.  If you wanted something, you figured out how to do it.  Though to an 11 year old, I was happy with what was in the box.  Now, 17 years later, I come back into the hobby and all you hear about is PE and resin upgrades.  I though I died and had gone to modeling heaven.  Upgrades that wouldn't cost me days of my life AND looked 100% better than what I could scratchbuild.

To me, adding AM parts are about the added realism.  I like looking through books and finding elements that I want to add to a kit.  Sometimes it's details in the wheel wells or maybe an open gun port.

For instance, in my HellCat, I really wanted an open ammo bay next to an open gun bay.  Well, there was an aftermarket gun bay kit, but nothing for an ammo bay.  So I built the bay from styrene and rectangular brass tubing.  I made the airframe and cross brackets from square styrene rod.  I got some ammo from a 1/35 Tamiya field artiliery kit.  I'd say it didn't turn out too bad.

Now, in my Zero, I tried to build it OOB.  But I couldn't.  The lack of the simplest detail was making me a bit batty.  So I made some harnesses and pedal straps from lead foil just to have something in there.  Plus, I went kinda nuts on the paintjob, so that's where most of my focus was

 

I fully believe that AM definitely has a place in the modeling world.  BUT, I also believe that a person should understand the how and the why before just spending 10x the cost of the original kit.

-Fred

 

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