American based model companies

Rob Gronovius wrote:

At one time, Revell Germany was the European distribution arm of Revell. While they have a sort of partnership, they are two distinct companies. Although when Revell of Germany began to enter the 1/72 scale armor world, they issued their new kits (M1, T-80, M4A1, StuG IV, Leo 2) in Monogram boxes for sale in the US and in Matchbox packages for sale in Europe.

 Thanks for the clarification, Rob. I wondered about the relationship between Revell and Revell AG. 

Regards,

i figure mad in america is good for me if

it is made here so we have people in manu. jobs here

the people of course that sell the product  again jobs here

the truck or rail and aircraft and all else that distribute the product  more jobs here

the fact that the useless end of a company (aka the suits) are elsewhere does not bother me because in the scheme of things that percentage of jobs( people in jobs ) is small compared to the amount of people list above

Lufbery wrote:

Rob Gronovius wrote: As an armor modeler, it is the one area where you are just about totally dependent on foreign kits. Lindberg made a few a long time ago, Monogram and Revell had armor lines out in the 50s & 60s, but left the genre because of anti-war sentiments. Hawk and Aurora both went out of business as well. Snap Adams had a military line based on kits they made for Revell, but they went out of business too. I was going to argue about Revell and armor because I see a lot of it at my local hobby shop, but then I realized that the Revell armor is see is from Revell Germany. If anyone here is into wooden ship kits, check out A. J. Fisher's products. They make their kits in Massachusetts . Personally, rather than focusing on "buying American," I still focus mostly on subject matter and kit quality. But given a chance, I'll support a smaller company based in the U.S. that makes its kits here as well. Regards,

I was unaware that Daimler had sold majority interest in Chrysler to Cerberus Capital Management (now THERE'S a monster conglomerate!) earlier this year. My bad...but it just goes to show how ownership in a company can literally change overnight. However, I thought I clearly stated that even under Daimler's ownership, Chrysler itself always remained a U.S. company. Only it's leadership was the foreign component. If there was any confusion caused by my original post, I appologize.

Just to clarify the whole "Made in the USA" issue - or perhaps make it more confusing - let me offer the following...

There are ONLY four products for which the Federal Trade Commission MANDATES U.S. content disclosure - automobiles, textiles, wool, and furs. That's it! No other product manufactured in this country is required to be marked or labeled "Made in the USA" or have any disclosure about the quantity of their U.S. content.

However, should a company determine on their own to label their products with some type of content information or make other "Made in the USA" claims, the FTC can and does review the labeling, advertising, and marketing practices and will take action against deceptive claims.

I won't go into all of the various types of voluntary U.S. content claims, but they include Express Claims, Implied Claims, Unqualified Claims, Qualified Claims, and Comparative Claims.

Check out the FTC website for more information:  http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/madeusa.shtm

Foster7155 wrote:

My own personal opinion - and one I'm sure will take plenty of flak - is that having a label saying, "Made in the USA" is frequently both deceptive and meaningless. The only requirement for a company to be considered "American" is if its corporate headquarters are located in the USA. The company itself can be completely owned and lead by foreign entities, but if their headquarters are here and they pay taxes, they are considered a US company. Let's take for example someone buying a Chrysler car. They probably think they're supporting a US business and are "buying American". Nothing could be farther from the truth. When Daimler Benz and Chrysler merged several years ago, Chrysler had a 44% MINORITY shareholder stake in the new corporation. Within only three years, that stake fell to under 25% and shortly thereafter a German was named chairman of Daimler-Chrysler. Is Chrysler a US company? According to the law, they are because their corporate headquarter are located in the US as are all of their primary manufacturering and assembly plants. However, the fact is that everything from design concepts to personel descisions are run from Germany. I'm almost certain this same type of thing is happening in many supposedly US model, tool, or other hobby related companies. In today's global marketplace it is becoming increasingly difficult to know - with absolute fact - not only whether a product is 100%, 99%, or even 50% "Made in the USA", but whether the money from your purchase in fact finds its way to the foreign ownership of the US business.

Chrysler is back as an American company, and has been for several months. There was also another error in the post. For a product to be labled "Made In The USA" something has tobe done here beside paper work. The exception to this is with automobiles and motorcycles, and there it's called "content". But that's just as missleading as the word "content." You see they mostly count on assembley. But if a car is built of several "sub-assemblys" you may have a part at who knows where, and then be shipped to a final assembly plant. And example would be an engine built in Canada, while the body is stamped in Indiana. Also for the content lable to read "made in the USA" all it needs is about 67%. Typically a G.M. productr will be over 80% (but not always). A Ford will fall in that area too, and a Chrysler product will come in at about 70%. This will change for Chrysler as they are starting their own drive train business, and will not be using mercedes suspension parts on future products. But that's the easy part to see. What most folks don't know is where do all the steel and aluminium come from? Or even forgeings. So when you see the commercial saying my Toyota is made in Southern Indiana just remember it's put together there. In reallity is's probably about 40% U.S. content. Honda does a better job of sourcing parts domesticly than the other Japanese companys, yet I doubt it will go 65%.

gary

Rob Gronovius wrote:

As an armor modeler, it is the one area where you are just about totally dependent on foreign kits. Lindberg made a few a long time ago, Monogram and Revell had armor lines out in the 50s & 60s, but left the genre because of anti-war sentiments. Hawk and Aurora both went out of business as well. Snap Adams had a military line based on kits they made for Revell, but they went out of business too.

I was going to argue about Revell and armor because I see a lot of it at my local hobby shop, but then I realized that the Revell armor is see is from Revell Germany.

If anyone here is into wooden ship kits, check out A. J. Fisher's products. They make their kits in Massachusetts .

Personally, rather than focusing on "buying American," I still focus mostly on subject matter and kit quality. But given a chance, I'll support a smaller company based in the U.S. that makes its kits here as well.

Regards, 

It seems that all the companies (including the US) go after the same thing; money. This is good; after all they can't go to war with its customers. Countries like Cuba and North Koran will come to that conclusion sooner than later (Castro and Kim Jong's days are numbered). The Arab counties that are ruled by dictators and those upset by Taliban will come around. Some sooner than others but the Quran says nothing about money being bad. China will come about the same way Russia did; money.

What about us in the USA you say? Just remember every product coming in has to be stored, shipped, etc, etc. Some products are large enough to be built here because the shipping is too much. All these things mean more jobs.

Dan

Eric you bring up a good point. I applaud you for purchasing within your budget. I was thumbing through some old Scale Modeler magazines that someone was giving away at a recent club meeting. In those days 70's & 80's models were crude by todays standards, even the early Hasegawa kits. Modelers turned out some fantastic results though, a silk purse from a sows ear. Were modelers better then?

As with any company its root ownership is questionable. If it is a publicly traded company who owns the most stock? A domestic or foreign owner? About a decade ago, during the buildup to the first Gulf War, I was stationed in Montana. Discussions about who owned what within the State of Montana was being bantered about. Everyone was concerned as to how much of the the states companies and properties were controlled by the Japanese, Chinese and Arabs. It turned out to be a very small percentage (single digit) but what was revealed in the research was Manuel Noriega controlled 13% of the states properties/companies. A known criminal who was to spend time in a Federal prison.

Ted Turner use to be publicly blasted because he was an 'outsider' who bought and owned property in Montana. The property (ranch) he purchased was returned to the tax rolls, employed locals, purchased goods & services (helping the local economy) and became a profitable operation once again. Whether ownership is an 'outsider' within our borders or one outside them, if the business is healthy we all win in the end.  

Like it was mentioned before, American cars?..is there such a thing. Harley's are now made from components made outside of the US. That Boeing jet that flew over was assembled in Washington state, but much of its componentry was imported from sub contractors and subsidaries outside the US. Many of the books and magazines you hold in your hand to read are printed overseas. It is cheaper in many cases than doing it domestically because of the costs of labor.  

People need to understand that the world is truly a smaller place. 

echolmberg wrote:

Interesting topic!  I'm an aircraft modeler.  Having said that, I know I could choose from Revell/Monogram, Tamiya, Hasegawa, Czech Masters, et al.  However, since I'm in a family of four living off of one income, I tend to buy what my pocketbook allows.  As a result, I tend to buy the Revel/Monogram P-51 for $12 rather than the Tamiya P-51 for two or three times that amount.  I don't know if the extra price is because it is made overseas or what.  Frankly I'm not even sure if RM is an American company anymore.  Does anyone know? Eric

Interesting topic!  I'm an aircraft modeler.  Having said that, I know I could choose from Revell/Monogram, Tamiya, Hasegawa, Czech Masters, et al.  However, since I'm in a family of four living off of one income, I tend to buy what my pocketbook allows.  As a result, I tend to buy the Revel/Monogram P-51 for $12 rather than the Tamiya P-51 for two or three times that amount.  I don't know if the extra price is because it is made overseas or what.  Frankly I'm not even sure if RM is an American company anymore.  Does anyone know?

Eric

Its a great concept to keep the money 'home', but as our global economy continues to evolve more of the production of goods will fall to those countries that we see as still emerging. Many companies move or outsource their products because by nature they are too costly to produce here in the USA. As savy consumers we know what we are willing to pay for a particular item and we expect the manufacturer to meet that demand.

We as a society have to either expect to pay more for a domestically produced quality product or as employees settle for less income to keep the cost of the good low enough to meet the consumers price point demands. 

Think of the world as a giant scale. Small poorer countries on one side, huge rich countries on the other. In order to balance out the scale, the economies must adjust. We know that it will take a vast amount of time fore the lesser side to achieve what we have so the option is that we the rich begin to lessen our wealth to help balance the scale. A concept that though we do not like, will have to happen for this to occur. Once the scales are more in balance the better the overall global economy will be.

This does mean shifting jobs and manufacturing elsewhere in the world. A painful thing, but it is in the best interest to us all. And yes, we wealthy westerners are going to feel the pain for a long time.

And if the financial wiz kids continue to loan money to those who cannot afford to repay it back...well we know where that will take us...down hill fast.

I can honestly say that the products I produce are 99.9% made in the USA, including the packaging. But as with anything in this world can change, especially if the suppliers fail to thrive. If I can continue to sell product, I can continue to support them and the employees who work there. The circle of life. 

As an armor modeler, it is the one area where you are just about totally dependent on foreign kits. Lindberg made a few a long time ago, Monogram and Revell had armor lines out in the 50s & 60s, but left the genre because of anti-war sentiments. Hawk and Aurora both went out of business as well. Snap Adams had a military line based on kits they made for Revell, but they went out of business too.

Not much there. Every once in a while Revell-Monogram repops the 1950s era Sherman or Patton tank, but those are for nostalgia more than serious kits.

I did buy just about every Accurate Miniatures 1/100 scale helicopter kit and most of their 1/48 scale aircrafts (still have almost all their Mustangs, SBDs, IL-2). They had great kits, but they were produced in South Korea and sold in America under the AM label. I believe they engineered the tooling and owned the molds, but the actual cutting of the molds and popping of the plastic took place overseas.

Where something is made is pretty clearly marked on most labels. I just bought a some clothes from LL Bean. Can't get much more American than that, right? Labels all read "Made in China." The Honda Accord and Gold Wing. Japanese, right? Made in Marysville, Ohio. So if you buy an Accord, you are supporting American auto workers, American truckers, an American dealership, and American mechanics when you get a tune up. Yes, part of the profit goes back to Japan at the home office, but a lot of Americans have shared in the wealth.

There's a hand dryer at my office men's room. It's manufactured by American Products, or some such thing, clearly implying it manufactured in the states. The label says clearly, "Made in Canada."

Foster7155 wrote:

In today's global marketplace it is becoming increasingly difficult to know - with absolute fact - not only whether a product is 100%, 99%, or even 50% "Made in the USA", but whether the money from your purchase in fact finds its way to the foreign ownership of the US business.

Yeah, that's the frustrating part. It seems that ownership is a grey area and ambiguous at best.

My own personal opinion - and one I'm sure will take plenty of flak - is that having a label saying, "Made in the USA" is frequently both deceptive and meaningless. The only requirement for a company to be considered "American" is if its corporate headquarters are located in the USA. The company itself can be completely owned and lead by foreign entities, but if their headquarters are here and they pay taxes, they are considered a US company.

Let's take for example someone buying a Chrysler car. They probably think they're supporting a US business and are "buying American". Nothing could be farther from the truth. When Daimler Benz and Chrysler merged several years ago, Chrysler had a 44% MINORITY shareholder stake in the new corporation. Within only three years, that stake fell to under 25% and shortly thereafter a German was named chairman of Daimler-Chrysler. Is Chrysler a US company? According to the law, they are because their corporate headquarter are located in the US as are all of their primary manufacturering and assembly plants. However, the fact is that everything from design concepts to personel descisions are run from Germany. I'm almost certain this same type of thing is happening in many supposedly US model, tool, or other hobby related companies.

In today's global marketplace it is becoming increasingly difficult to know - with absolute fact - not only whether a product is 100%, 99%, or even 50% "Made in the USA", but whether the money from your purchase in fact finds its way to the foreign ownership of the US business.

As far as what i think. Well, i'm one of those who still talking of buying American. Maybe this day in age it might be outmoded thinking, but I for one like to know that what i buy went to help feed, clothe and house some of my fellow countrymen.

   But with the fact that there are more and more companies transferring overseas, it gets harder and harder to do just that. I think aside from that though, there is some issues with quality. I know alot of people talk of Dragon being very good here on the forums (for example) but i remember actually doing one of their kits when i was a kid. An F/A-18, actually ( i did alot of them growing up. I dunno why). But when looking at the completed model, despite my own limits and lack of skills at the time, i thought that the dimensions were all wrong, and it looked more like a cigar with wings. I suppose maybe they might have improved greatly in the last 20 years or so, or maybe it was just that one moulding. But i've just never been motivated to buy another one of their kits since.

   But i do think that i am a little ignorant of what is made where when it comes to models and supplies. And perhaps the more quality kits might be made overseas. I don't really know. But i do still feel a little added satisfaction when i see the "Made in the USA" on anything i just bought. My