DOGFIGHTS

Mike S. wrote:

I hope it is the end of this show, as this last March 7th show is alleged to be, frankly. With the top fighter aces slots of all time (records not likely to be broken), filled by Luftwaffe Experten with kills in triple digits (WELL beyond anything achieved by any allied pilots), it is asininely ridiculous the way the producers of this show skew the depiction of allied only accounts. This was suppose to be a documentary about the feats and skills of ace pilots, not a bit of post war propaganda. The real danger of this is that the lowest common denominator of the viewing public (the majority) are so uninitiated with the finer points of historical fact, coupled with the likelihood that TV is their major, if not sole, source of education in military history, most are likely to believe that John Wayne won the war. The allied only accounts highlighted are fact indeed, but when the bigger, and for the sake of the discussion of war aces and aerial combat (not the ultimate outcome of the war) more pertinent German aces/accomplishments/records are simply bypassed, this very much casts DOGFIGHTS into the stuff of "Hollywood" history film making, not a quality documentary. And how about the British aces?

To quote one Harry S. Truman; "history is always written by the victors."

gary

Actually, that quote has been used and attributed to Napoleon, Hitler, Churchill and many others.

Touching on the last comment in my initial post above, didn't the British help win the war? Other than the meager Swordfish segment, where is there representation? Ahem.

i can understand the american only thing  TO a point

but what i don't like is they always well many times

portray the "enemy" pilots as complete cowardly Retards especially the ones flying migs 

Mike S. wrote:

Actually, that quote has been used and attributed to Napoleon, Hitler, Churchill and many others. Touching on the last comment in my initial post above, didn't the British help win the war? Other than the meager Swordfish segment, where is there representation? Ahem.

he makes that quote in his book "Plain Speaking"

gary

Yes, I've read Plain Speaking many times, a good and often humorous read. However he is not the originator of that often quoted saying.

Truman was an avid student of history, and gleaned the sage quote from earlier sources himself.

Off topic, however;

I'm a conservative, but we would be tremendously fortunate to have a candidate half as good as President Truman to lead us this next term. One of the finest Presidents this country has been blessed with.

As an outsider looking in, and a bit of a history buff myself, I consider Harry S Truman to be one of the finest US Presidents EVER. Certainly the best of the past century.

Sadly NONE of the current potential Presidential candidates are worthy enough to even hold his hat!

Even though he was a "Democrat", he was closer to my version of a optimal conservative than any of the Republican candidates of the past few decades.

My favorite Trumanism is "I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."

I'm surprised at how many websites (including his Library!) use S. as his middle initial. In fact, he didn't have a middle name, only the letter "S". 

Then there was RR....who managed to grab the best from his predessors. (Predessors?(sp))

But as middle names (or lack thereof) go.....a noted Hollywood producer was once called David O'Selznick in a cablegram 

You have to remember that the TV series Dogfights has to be pitched to a US TV producer and then in turn pitched to a US cable network. So when they come up with the idea about a TV show using video game style graphics to describe the air-to-air (or air-to-sea or sea-to-sea) combat, they are going to lean heavily towards a US based show with a few non-US fights thrown in.

Once they get a following and have future seasons locked up, then they can branch out more and feature other nations besides the US.

Of course, you can always wait for non-US TV networks to develop their own version of the show. They will probably feature their own air forces as well.

Mike S. wrote:

Yes, I've read Plain Speaking many times, a good and often humorous read. However he is not the originator of that often quoted saying. Truman was an avid student of history, and gleaned the sage quote from earlier sources himself. Off topic, however; I'm a conservative, but we would be tremendously fortunate to have a candidate half as good as President Truman to lead us this next term. One of the finest Presidents this country has been blessed with.

Looking back after reading the quote I don't think HST ever took credit for the quote, so your probably right. Still he was probably the best president we've seen (besides Reagan) the last hundred years. Plain Speaking was a best seller for what seemed like eons. One must take into context that the book was dictated in 1961 with the stipulation that it would not be published till after his death (1971). There are point brought up in the book along with names and places that may have doomed him, but all were in truth. He never pulled a punch, and called a spade when he saw a spade. He's what we need now to run the country!

gary

Rob Gronovius wrote:

You have to remember that the TV series Dogfights has to be pitched to a US TV producer and then in turn pitched to a US cable network. So when they come up with the idea about a TV show using video game style graphics to describe the air-to-air (or air-to-sea or sea-to-sea) combat, they are going to lean heavily towards a US based show with a few non-US fights thrown in. Once they get a following and have future seasons locked up, then they can branch out more and feature other nations besides the US. Of course, you can always wait for non-US TV networks to develop their own version of the show. They will probably feature their own air forces as well.

Yes, but how long we have forgotten the old series Victory At Sea! Very neutral in content, but also still the best series ever produced in my opinion.

gary

Bgrigg wrote:

As an outsider looking in, and a bit of a history buff myself, I consider Harry S Truman to be one of the finest US Presidents EVER. Certainly the best of the past century. Sadly NONE of the current potential Presidential candidates are worthy enough to even hold his hat! Even though he was a "Democrat", he was closer to my version of a optimal conservative than any of the Republican candidates of the past few decades. My favorite Trumanism is "I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell." I'm surprised at how many websites (including his Library!) use S. as his middle initial. In fact, he didn't have a middle name, only the letter "S".

My Father new Harry, and if he were here right now I'd ask him. I still like Reagan better, but actually the two were pretty close in thought & ideas (know my Dad is rolling over in his grave).

    An interesting thought about HST is that he was not a wealthy man when he took office, and was not when he left office. He was a little that stood head and shoulders above his peers.

gary

Truman had some of the toughest decisions to make one after another of just about any president in history. The fate of the nation, and indeed the free world, rested on his shoulders. I'm of the opinion that he chose wisely with 99.99% of them.

The buck did indeed stop with him.;)

Dogfights is still a very entertaining program and there is nothing else out there that comes even close.  Hopefully, as they continue to build a following and therefore have a big more "leverage", they'll be able to branch out and start analyzing other aspects of the airwar.  I would LOVE to see some dogfights from the Eastern Front make it into the show!

Have you tried contacting the History Channel to express your opinion and give them suggestions?  Heck, if we all contacted them with what we like, and what we would like to see, perhaps we can influence future programming? 

You have to keep a few things in mind; primarily, it's an american show, written for an american audience.  Second, it's not a show written for hardcore military history buffs.

The caual american viewer doesn't want to hear about how great the "nazi" pilots were, especially if they may have had fathers, grandfathers, brothers or uncles that were shot down by one of the "great" axis pilots. 

Nor are they interested in any role the RAF may have had.  They, more than likely, see the british as a more powerful naval force, not so much of an air power.

American education, like most countries, tend to focus on the positive inputs that their country had in the war and trivialize the input of other countries.  If the show is going to start including the RAF, then it should include the RAAF and the RCAF as well.  Heck, most americans don't even realize australia and canada took part in WWII, let alone had an air presence.

-Fred

now that you mention  it Fred  back in the 60's we were taught that the canadians though in the war were just part of the brits and not an independent group at all

joe