1/72 Italeri AH-64 Apache - Cockpit Problem ?

That is where the ORT was installed on the first D models. They removed it I believe in the blk II aircraft. If you have a spare A model kit the ORT would be the same. THe ORT was replaced with a third MFD I believe. Here are some images I found on the internet that shows the ORT.

Hope this helps

charlie

Thank's for the two pic's charlie , I've attempted to scratch-build the "ORT" for the front cockpit , all though it's not exactly like in the pic's . I spent the better part of an afternoon and evening trying to file and shape little pieces of plastic and watching them fly out of the tweezes and across the bench numerous times , which really tested my patients . Anyway I stuck with it and I guess it looks okay ; usually I would of put the whole kit back in the spares box , so I'm happy I at least had a go . I found some spare pilots to put into the cockpit , so they look okay too . There is a small black strip that appears to fit on the inside of the canopy but the instruction aren't clear on it's actual position ??? .

I just need to add the landing gear , stub wings and engine pods and she's ready to mask , so hopfully I can start to airbrush her in the next couple of days.

Thank's again for the pic's

                                                      Kind regards John.

Here's another pic of the cockpit , For some reason it didn't upload on the last post , so I tried again .

                                           John.

Looking great John. If you would have told me you were going to scratch build the ORT I would have scanned an old -10 of the front cockpit for you. It would have given you a little better reference for scratch building. For a 1/72nd scale model though your ORT looks just fine.

Glad I could help.

Charlie

John,

  Looks great from where I sit.  You gonna get a collection of Apaches to go with your Huey squadron?

    Ray

Thank's for the kind comments Ray . I just ordered the 1/72 Airfix and Hobby Boss AH-64D Apache's from the hobby store today , so I guess your right about a squadron of Apache's

I also had a try at using a wash on my first IDF apache . I just wanted to high-light the recessed panel lines around the fuselage . I tried using Humbrol enamel gloss black thinned with Humbrol thinner , It was a little difficult to get a nice capillary action to flow in and around the recesses , I ended up using 10 parts thinner to 1 part gloss black but I had to go around the fuselage a few times . It worked out okay in the end and once the wash was dry I tried a mix of 10 parts Future to 1 part Flat base and that gave the apache a nice flat finish .

I also ordered some Model Master gloss black and lacquer thinner with my two apache kits today , perhaps the M/M black wash might go on a bit easier than the Humbrol mix ?

I hope to post some pics soon .

                                         Kind regards John 

How did I miss this thread?!

Lookin good there John!  That Italeri kit, even though it says "Longbow" is not a D model.  It represents the APG-78 radar testbed AH-64A.  The Extended Forward Avionics Bays (EFABS) are not included with that kit, and the FABs you've got on the kit are the A model ones.  Unfortunately, that kit came out when the program was just getting underway. Here's a shot of the right hand EFAB on a flat-top AH-64D (that's me in the back seat).  You can see it is beefier than the one that comes in the kit. 

By comparison, here's an A model FAB:

There's a major difference in angles and size, and that's just the right side.  The FABs on an Alpha are symmetrical, while they are considerably different on the Delta.

This is a difficult angle, but you can see that while the right side EFAB goes under the wing, the left side actually angles up to be even with the top of the wing.  On the Longbow, both EFABs end in a large venting system:

Now, as far as details in the front cockpit go, Charlie had it nailed.  The Block 1 AH-64D's still had the ORT (Optic Relay Tube) from the AH-64A, except with some new buttons.  Block 2 (2003 builds and later) have the new TEDAC display:

Hope this helps somewhat.  If you need any help, don't hesitate to email me!

Jon

Thank's for the pic's Jon , I copied them onto a CD disc and I greatly appreciate you posting them for everyone to view . Its always interesting to put a face to name .

Anyway the Airfix 1/72 AH-64 Longbow Apache arrived yesterday , upon opening the box   some of the parts appear to be similar to what Academy and Italeri offer . Appart from the fuselage sponsons , is that what you call the EFABs , they look slightly larger and fit up closer to the stub wings , It doesn't have those vents at the rear as you mentioned in the pic's.

The Airfix box art shows some type of antenna on top of the engine pod but it's not included in the kit . I was hoping to compare the Airfix kit to the Hobbyboss AH-64 but the hobby store had to back order the hobbyboss kit as they were out of stock . So I guess this one isn't an accurate Longbow version either , I'll build her as another A version . The kit does have some different type of Missile/Rocket pods that fit on the outer stub wings ends .

Thanks again for sharing the pic's

                                                 Kind regards John

Not sure why these two pic's didn't upload last time . Anyway you can see how the stub wing fits into the top of the fuselage sponson . The other pic shows that small strip/panel that fits inside the canopy , going in the front cockpit section . Is that correct ??? . I haven't added the other one's to the Academy and Italeri kits as yet as I'm still not sure what is the correct position .

                                                     John.

John,

Glad to help!  That Longbow is a bit closer to the real thing, but the kit still represents one of the early prototypes.  The aft end of the EFABs didn't have the blowers there on the prototypes.  It isn't too difficult a fix, just a pain in the butt.  It really just comes down to poor kit research on their part.  Another minor issue is the steps on the left EFAB.  They're backwards!

The antennas you mention on the engine nacelles are your Air Data Sensor booms.  Pretty much the same thing as the little T-top on the Alpha or the boom sticking off the cockpit of an AH-1F or AH-1Z.  They're pretty important details to have!

Those other missile pods are for Stinger AAMs.  Currently, the only Longbows out there that have Stinger capability are the Japanese ones.  They're really a redundant weapon system.  

 I did want to ask if the cockpit panels had the MultiPurpose Display panels on them, or if they had steam gauges?  ALL Longbows have MPDs.  So far, the only kits that have gotten that right are the Hasegawa and Revell Germany in 48th.  It may take some scratchbuilding, but they're pretty easy to do.

Jon
 

The Airfix box art shows the correct Air Data Sensors which would be on both engines. Is that what your are calling antennas? I noticed the box art did not show the support rod on the top of the engine that supports the engine cowling on the wing when opened. It looks like a little christmas tree with a flat round piece of metal and rubber on the top of the tree. Your second right fuselage spruce appears to have the old A model Air Data Sensor which was mounted on the top of the Mast on A models. The air data sensor should be fairly easy to scratch build. The fabs look fairly correct except missing some detail.

This is why I have stayed away from building the apaches...too many errors and my scratch building skills are still in their infancy. Maybe in the spring I will go talk to one of my old retired IP buddies that is teaching out at the flight line and let him escort me out to the ramp to take a bunch of walk-around images that I can post in here for references. Since 911 Rucker has greatly tightened the ability to take pictures on the flight line.

Charlie

Charlie,

Lemme know if you need any Hanchey flightline shots.  Got my wings in July 07 and got permission while I was there to take a bunch of pics for my Walkaround book.

If you get out that way, say hey to Greg Inman and Rick Pawluk.  Greg was my platoon leader while I was there and Rick was our senior IP.  I owe Rick a couple copies of my books.  

Jon

Thank's again Jon and Charlie . I must admit I sit here in awe and some-what overwhelmed at some of you guy's who are current/former military pilots or have/are serving in the military . Your knowlage and expertise on Helicopters is invaluable to modeler's like me . I left school at the age of 16 with below average grades in all subjects , It's not that I didn't try and study ,I just struggled terribly . I managed to get an apprenticeship as a Carpenter/Shopfitter and I've stuck with that for the last 28 years . I love Helicopters , never been up in one , would like to have the money to learn to fly but I guess it's okay to dream a little .

I have some AH-1F Cobra's in my stash , I'll dig one out and see if I can scratch up some of those Air Data Probes . Also last time I was browsing Squadron.com web site they had a couple of squadron signal publications on the AH-64 Apache , I think I'll order those for christmas . I don't have much in the way of reference material on the Apache .

Thank's again guy's , all of you who have military backgrounds certainly have my upmost respect and admiration and I alway's greatly appreciate everyone's help on all of my posts and questions/inquiry's.

                                             Kind regards John

No problem, I was a kid who hated school also and when I went to college I goofed off all year. But back then we had President Nixon who told me he had a job for me while I was trying to decide what I wanted to be. I was drafted in 71 and when I got to basic training I passed the WOC test and applied for flight school because I did not want to be a grunt in Vietnam. Turned out I never went anyway, but I never really had a desire to be a pilot until after flight school. I am one of those guys that ended up in a career field I never really thought of being in. I enjoyed it but not as much as most. Flying was always something I could take or leave. I did like GUNS though and I always made sure I ended up in the CAV units. They were a lot more fun than today's Army. I actually quit the Army after ten years and went back to college, seriously this time, and received a degree in finance. In 91 I was recalled to active duty for Desert Storm and decided to stay in and finish my career so I could retire. I love what I do now though, write C4I requirements for the aviation branch. I work with all the various TSMs helping them define their C4I rquirements on all aviation platforms and work with the CRD developing aviation command post C4I requirements. I love pushing a desk and model building. Hopefully my skills in modeling will improve.

Anyway thank you for the kind complements and I hope you get a chance to fly a helicopter some day. I would recommend a old 500, I always thought they were the true corvettes of helicopters.

Charlie

Thanks Jon. I do not know either of them, but when I go out there I will try to look them up. The only guys I know teaching out at the Apache course are Dave Stark, and a friend I can not even remember his name right now. (Sucks to get old). Frank Holmes! Frank use to be the branch chief arond 2001 or 02.

Charlie

I ordered the two Squadron Signal AH-64 Apache books today . They should arrive just in time for christmas . . I'm starting to compile a nice collection of squadron books .

                                                           John .

John,

  I assume one of them was Cobrahistorian's (Jon Bernstein).  You got some good stuff coming!

   Ray

Hi Ray , I didn't realize that the AH-64 Walk around book was written by Cobrahistorian . The books will certainly be excellent christmas presents . Thanks for informing me about the author.

                                           Kind regards John

Yeah, the Walkaround is one of mine.  The In-Action book is ancient history, since it was written well before the Apache ever saw combat, but it isn't bad for some visual references on early -64A's. 

I really need to start writing again!

Jon

           Jon ; 

Is it inpolite for me to ask you what rank you hold in the U.S.Army . As a fulltime Apache pilot how did you find the time to write the AH-64 Walk Around publication . I cant wait for mine to arrive in the mail .

                                               Kind regards John

I went to the Hobby Store yesterday to buy some paint and picked up these two birds . The Academy kits were $20 each , so I thought it seemed a good buy for 1/48 scale kits . Upon looking in the box both kits have PVC tyre's and those ORT console's are included as Charlie and Jon mentioned earlier . The AH-64D has the bigger EFAB's that fit up under the stub wings .The A version is boxed as the AH-64A MSIP and includes Side Winder AAM missile's . Both box art pic's show those Air Data Probes but it doesn't appear to be included in either kits ; The instructions dont show them and so far I couldn't see them on any of the sprue's ? .

Anyway everything else looks pretty good for twenty bucks each . The 1/72 scale Apache's go together without any problems , I'm sure it will be the same for the 1/48 birds as well .

                                            John.

John, the box art does not illustrate the Air Sensor Data probes. They would be on both engines towards the back half of the cowlings. I do see your kit has the old A model air data probe. In your bottom image it is to the top and left just above the 2 in the date stamp. Here is a link to an image that shows the probes but not in the detail you will need. You will see them on the sides of the engine cowlings.

http://drhenrylieu.com/images/iraqtech_ss_apache.jpg

Charlie

Thank you Charlie for posting that pic of what the Air Data Probes actually looks like . My apoligies for getting a little mixed-up . I scanned the box top of the longbow apache and I guess what I was looking at was those small support stands just behind the engine intakes . I think you mentioned them before ; are they for when the the engine cover is opened the support rests on top of the stub wing ? . Hopfully when my squadron books arrive I will be able to get a lot of these things correct .

Thanks again for the pic , it gives me something to work from for the 1/72 Apache's .

                                                     Kind regards John

John,

  This is an Iraqi bird from 2004. Pretty good view of the data probes.  I'll look for more if i can find em.  I'm sure Cobrahistorian can fix you right up though.

   Ray

" border="0" />

John,

  Here's another from 2004 that is about as good as it's gonna get shy of a walkaround shot.

    Ray

" border="0" />

Thank's Ray , two more great pic's to add to my collection . I'll start searching through the spares box later this afternoon , Hopfully I should be able to scratch up something that looks like the Air Data Probes . The first pic you posted shows a shark's mouth on the front fuselage sponsons , the AH-64A MSIP has those on the decal sheet , It's white in color so it didn't show up when I posted the pic .

Thank's again guy's...

                                             Kind regards John

Great pictures Ray for showing the Air data sensor. Looking at the first image I noticed on the left FAB and to the front is the camera for rotor tracking. I did a bunch of that in my day with the older A models. I never flew the D's.

Charlie

I was searching through my Israeli Camouflage and Markings book and also on the google images as my first two AH-64A Apache's will have Israeli markings . So far I've noticed the Israeli birds dont appear to have those Air Data Probes . I could be wrong as I've only seen a few pic's so far but is it only the U.S.Army Apaches that have the probes ???

                                                      John.

The Air Sensor Data probe is mounted on top of the rotor mast on A models. I see it in the pictures you posted. Many of those aircraft the Isreali's are flying are ones I used to fly. When 2/6 gave up their earliest A models they went to Isreal.

Charlie