Quiz #2 In-Country Army copter "nicknames" 1961-73 Vietnam

Gonna try No2.  How about Jefferson Airplane?  Sounds like a great helicopter name.

   Ray
 

John,

  I got No. 6:BONUS question: An Air America helicopter made history by shooting down a Russian biplane piloted by an NVA crew during the Vietnam War. What weapon did they utilize to accomplish this incredible feat?

The planes was Russian AN-2's and the weapon seems to be in debate as either an AK-47 or an Uzi. I'd lay money on the AK myself. you can even get a painting of the event:

Ray

http://www.air-america.org/News/images/Limaprintlowres.jpg

Marko, some people are aficionados and others are merely random guessers, but I have a feeling you have to be a time traveler. How else can you nail these questions like you do without hacking into my computer.

Absolutely correct! That name was a favorite not only on slicks, but on gunships, loaches, hooks, everything. Even some guntrucks I've seen. This "name" had three powerful images rolled into one phrase. 

Regarding, LUCY IN THE SKY WITH DIAMONDS:  That's a pretty decent guess. But the one I documented had thirteen more letters. One more bit of trivia: the copter nose panel with this "name" survived the war and makes an appearance at the unit's semi-annual reunions. JB

John, You're full of surprises Yourself - I thought I won't be seeing any replies for at least a couple of hours. Considering the time zone difference, You are either a nocturnal creature or a very very early riser

I would also like to express how much I appreciate and admire Your undertaking such a mammoth task of cataloguing Vietnam helicopter nicknames/nose art. Trully a fitting tribute to both the brave men that flew and fought in Vietnam and their trusty machines. Hats down, Sir!

#3) This unit holds bragging rights to having the most slicks of any in-country Army unit to be painted with original & individual names utilizing the unit's official name or shorten version of it within the wording. Also, all 13 slicks had corresponding nose art that helped define the inscribed name.

Would that be the 121st AHC "The Soc Trang Tigers"? As far as I know most of their "Slicks" carried some sort of a name including the word tiger: Tiger Lead, Tiger Lady, Tiger Surprise, ...; and also sported some of the finest nose art of any Vietnam unit I've seen.

As for questions #4 and #5, I've seen some pretty long "names" painted on noses of choppers in Vietnam, though some might not be considered nicknames, but more along the line of a statement. So, here's an example of a 7 word name painted on a nose of a UH-1H Nighthawk of D troop, 17th Cavalry at Da Nang in 1972 (this would be my second try with the #5 question :).

Patience my as*! I'm gonna kill something!

Does this qualify as a nickname?

Marko

Marko, last night I was burning the midnight oil so to speak when I noticed your reply on the forum, and I just had to respond after reading your answers. Even was mumbling to myself going to bed.

Okay, regarding QUIZ question #3:  The 121st had some of the best nose art in all of Vietnam. For some reason the local artists in IV Corps, the Mekong Delta area (where I was stationed 70-71) were like a unheralded enclave of master craftsmen creating the most excellent artwork to ever adorn a copter fuselage. However, there's another unit that showcased a particular theme running through their nose art that was influenced by a certain radio character. 

 Questions #4 & 5: For lack of a better word "nickname" as I use it is a catch-all term that refers to anything written on a helicopter no matter how short or long it is. Yes, I agree, the wording may often convey that of a statement, phrase, grafitti or quotation and maybe not that of a nickname. For reasons of convenience and neccessity copter nickname or name becomes the chosen word to define this poetic artform.

Marko, another good  answer but not the one I'm looking for. HINT: the nine word nose name was a product jingle and the longest letter count word belonged to a movie title. JB

namhelo wrote:

Questions #4 & 5: For lack of a better word "nickname" as I use it is a catch-all term that refers to anything written on a helicopter no matter how short or long it is. Yes, I agree, the wording may often convey that of a statement, phrase, grafitti or quotation and maybe not that of a nickname. For reasons of convenience and neccessity copter nickname or name becomes the chosen word to define this poetic artform.

 John, 

  Based on those criteria, I'd say a C 3/17 Huey on the VHPA site has to be a contender for question 4 even though it is more than 9 words:

: "America- Love it or leave it Light horse the B$stard Cav"  What say you?  Here's thelink, she's near the bottom:

http://www.vhpamuseum.org/art/art.shtml

Darn, I don't want to frustrate you any longer than necessary Ray, and you've done some great  work digging for the answers but I need to apply one critical addendum to my "nickname" definition.

The copter "name" should stand alone and not include a unit or platoon name. I know, it sounds like splitting hairs, but otherwise it opens up too much unoriginal military text found on aircraft. I'm looking for a a string of words all together painted on the nose without the inclusion of a unit title or name.

Ray, I feel bad about this, I really do. Here is what I'm going to do. Let's keep this quiz question open and see if anyone finds it. In the meantime I am going to declare your selected answer, AMERICA, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT, LIGHT HORSE THE BASTARD CAV, as the all-time longest most worded copter "name" found to date. How's that, do I redeem myself? JB

John,

  No worries. You are the copter name king for sure.  You make the rules.  I was just trying to fudge a little I guess.  I'll keep looking!

     Ray

John,

bear with us. It's gonna take some serious research to crack questions #3, 4 and 5. So, to take a brake from the "pesky" trisome I'll try to answer #7. Now, I will only put down info I know is true or I consider a pretty good "educated guess"  

#7) Documented "names" of WWII bombers totaled 16,000. In comparison, "names" of in-country Army helicopters totaled to date is 2,200. See if you can spot which "name" goes with what war, and which ones flew in both wars.

CLOUD DANCER - WWII

EASY RIDER - VN

CHATTANOOGA CHOO CHOO - WWII

COSA NOSTRA - ?

WRETCHED MILDRED - WWII

UGLY DUCKLING - WWII, VN

THE TRAVELING EXECUTIONER - VN, WWII

MANDRAKE ROOT - VN

MUSHROOM MOLLY - VN

MY BROTHERS KEEPER - VN

Now I have a question for You John. Which AHCs proved to be the most troublesome in terms of finding info on nicknames/nose art? And a question that Ray will certainly find interesting - how many nicknames/nose art of the 190th AHC did You find?

Marko 

Marko, you did pretty good, 50% were outright correct. A couple others were 1/2 correct. I'll comment on your question to me in a separate post. JB

NO = "Cloud Dancer": (not WWII) A-7-1, VN

YES = "Easy Rider": (yes, VN) too many to list (hint, hint)

YES/NO = "Chat-Choo-Choo": (both WWII+VN) assigned to 57 AHC, VN

NO = "Wretched Mildred" (not WWII) assigned to D-3-4, VN

YES = "Ugly Duckling" (both WWII+VN) assigned to the 254 Med Det, VN

NO = "Traveling Executioner" (not WWII) assigned to 57+117 AHC's, VN

YES = "Mandrake Root" (yes, VN) assigned to 336 AHC, VN

YES = "Mushroom Molly" (yes,VN) assigned to the 128 AHC

YES = "My Brother's Keeper" (yes,VN) assigned to the 571 Med Det

#3) This unit holds bragging rights to having the most slicks of any in-country Army unit to be painted with original & individual names utilizing the unit's official name or shorten version of it within the wording. Also, all 13 slicks had corresponding nose art that helped define the inscribed name.

How about the 170th "Bikinis"?  I know each platoon had girls with different color bikinis on the nose and every 170th slick I have found has artwork and/or a name.  Any joy my friend?

    Ray

John,

Thanks for the feedback. So, I guess that's a D for my try on #7 . I have to say the only real surprise is the Cloud Dancer (I thought flying in the clouds was considered a risk of getting nose bleeds by Army chopper crews in Nam ) and the Wretched Mildred, but just because it has a WWII ring to it. You certainly are a walking nose art library, John!

John, Ray

That #3 is bugging me big time! I have this sneaky feeling that the answer is right in front of our noses, but we somehow just fail to see it I have to admit my knowledge of 1960s US radio shows is pretty much zero - I stand corrected, it is zero! So I doubt I'll nail this question through the radio character connection. What I find a bit odd is the number of slicks in this unit, because 13 is too many for an Air Cav Troop and a bit short for an AHC!?! It is more in the line of aviation platoons attached to infantry units like the "Casper Aviation Platoon".

And quite honestly, between my job, my girlfriend and 4 pet bearded dragons I have very little time to do proper research during work days, so expect some better aimed shots from me during the weekend...

Marko

John,

as for me being a "time traveler"...actually I do a bit of time traveling, sort of. See the following:

Aviation Enthusiast's/Historian's Guide to Internet Time traveling:

I guess all of us scale modelers/aviation enthusiasts/historians have experienced the following sequence of events. First we find a very nice and informative site, which we like very much and we, of course, bookmark it. After a while we try to connect to this great site only to find it is no longer active! After realizing that, usually a period of banging our heads and ranting about "how stupid of me, why didn't I download the entire freakin' site , etc." follows.

Well, in 1996 a group of IT scientists, who had experienced this scenario one too many times, decided to put an end to this and formed a cabal going by the name " the Internet Archive". They started (not so secretly) archiving internet contents and developed a virtual time traveling portal codenamed the "Wayback Machine" (imagine some eerie musical score starting at this point for dramatic effect). Internet Archive unleashed their digital minions, the Robot Crawlers, that have been archiving all publicly available sites ever since...

All of the above is, in fact, true, minus my conspiracy theory-like narration

Wayback machine is quite a useful online tool for retrieving information from sites that are no longer active. I'll give You an example of how I used it successfully in my Vietnam choppers research. Old HA(L)-3 Seawolves site had a pretty extensive weapons section that was omitted on their new site. By using the Wayback machine I accessed their archived site as it was some years ago and got the info I thought was lost for ever!

Wayback machine can be accessed at:

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

It does have some limitations though:

1. You have to have the address of the site You wish to "access". The Internet Archive are planning a text search tool in the future.

2. Retrieving text info is not a problem, but many graphics (images, slide shows, etc.) are not archived. In my experience You have about 50% chance of getting graphics from archived sites.

3. Some site owners block the robot crawlers from retrieving info from their sites.

I hope You don't find this too off topic, but since we do deal with some serious aviation researching here, I thought I'd share this little tip with the rest of the FSM community.

Marko

Marko, simply incredible, something James Bond would utilize. There are several RED-X'd sites listed on the VHPA and VHCMA websites that I'd love to get into. Then there are the members only sites I 'd love to access but unauthorized to see. Most of the Yahoo & MSN Group sites cannot be accessed for viewing photos or archives.

Thank god I started this research several years ago while the Guest Books and Message Boards were still active (with archives) on the majority of AHC/CAV copter sites.  That's where I found roughly a third of the copter "names" I've cataloged. The other third was from published media, and the other third from emails rec'd from vets.

Now I know why no one has tackled a project of this magnitude before, and it all comes down to time. Over a thousand hours I've invested searching the web for info & pics. Over 5,000 emails sent out to prospective holders of info & pics. Checking and cross checking, confirming and questioning, it's a lot like genealogy in tracing one's family tree. Blind alleys, incorrect spellings, verbal copter "nickname" versus painted copter "names".

It's been said that every time a person dies, a library burns. The clock is ticking to gather as much info and materials before the source dries up. Much of what this project seeks to obtain  isn't found in national archives or other repositories, safely stored for posterity. The sources I'm working with have a limited time factor that loses its recall capacity with age.  More later, JB

John,

Wayback machine is just what the doctor ordered for those Red-X'd sites. As for "password protected/members only" sites, I find them really annoying and also think they do no good in terms of preserving the history and memories of Vietnam helicopter units. Although I've spent countless hours researching Vietnam choppers on the net, I can only imagine how much "blood, sweat & tears" it took for You to compile such an overwhelming amount of data on nicknames/nose art. Truly amazing

This is a photo of one of my favorite Huey gunships. This Charlie model served with the B/1/9 Cav and was one of the last two UH-1Cs in the aeroweapons platoon as they were converting to Cobras. I will restrain myself from describing the unusual weapons package, but You can read more about this one-of-a-kind Huey in the Unusual Vietnam Hueys thread ( /forums/7/804602/ShowPost.aspx#804602 ). You will notice it carried a nickname on the door post. I've tried clearing the image up using all sorts of image enhancement software, with no luck - I still cannot make it out. I was wondering if You have it in Your database. It was with the Bravo troop from about mid 1969 to early 1970.

Marko

Marko,

  You may have other pics, but here's one I found:

http://bravotroop.my100megs.com/44_photos.html

The name looks like it might be "Satan's Bride" but I could be very wrong as well.  Anyway, just thought I'd point you to this one as well.  Good luck in your quest!

     Ray

Thanks Ray!

I did see this picture before, but still couldn't make the name out. I think Satan's Bride could be it! I always thought it was "Satan something", but that second word is almost impossible to crack. Well, Satan's Bride certainly sounds fitting to such a Hellish Huey .

Say, are You getting any closer to nailing #3? Knowing it was a cav unit does narrow it down for us, but I am still pretty much in the dark. The only Cav unit, I can think of, that painted some sort of a maskot/character associated with the unit's name to noses of their slicks in 1970-71 were the "Blue Ghosts" F/8 Cav. But I find it unlikely that Blue Ghost was a radio character, or was it?

Thanks again Ray!

Marko