Jolly Greens over Laos

Aaron,

  I am especially fond of the Sewolves. I had always been interested in HA(L)-3 but then I found out my father's primary bird, Gladiator 36, was transferred to the Seawolves and served there till she was sent back to Rucker.  I'm Army through and through, but the Seawolves were some of the best avaitors/gunners of the Vietnam War and really developed their own unique setups and tactics.  But I digress from the subject of this thread.

    Ray 

Aaron,

  Glad to see I didn't steer you wrong on the Green Hornet book.  It's worth it's weight in gold if you are a 20th SOS fan.

    Ray

Thanks for the crash truck photo I always like seeing what Firefighters use in other countries. In many ways things are the same all over the world and in many areas they are very different. In 2006 I got to meet a group of Australian and New Zealand firefighters who were in Idaho working with one of our management teams it was really interesting showing them our engine and explaining how we do things, then hearing from them how they do things.

I got the Green Hornets book in the mail yesterday, really neat book.  

 Aaronw , I'm more than grateful for the links you and other FSM members post on after market decals and resin parts .

I'm certainly looking forward to all my recent orders arriving in the mail over the next few week's and I'm also hoping all my Huey builds I have going will turn out the best I've built so far .

Anyway , my brother gave me some photo's the other day ; He took them a few years ago when we both went to the annual airshow at HMAS Albratros , Naval Air Station , Nowra .

If I remember correctly , you mentioned a little while back that your a Fire Fighter ;

I had this pic from the airshow , the Fire Fighters and crowd are watching the Army Skydiving team coming in to land . Just thought you might like a pic of the Navy Fire Fighting Truck .

Thank's again for the links .

                                                 John .

BTW , I will certainly be getting some of those nice decals , I have all those Aircraft and Helicopters in my stash .

Ray & John, if you haven't seen them I thought I'd point out Wolfpak decals 1/72 Seabirds & Green Hornets set. It includes several 20th SOS helicopters including Black Mariah.

I just got mine today, the decals are nice and it includes a good write up of the particular aircraft as well as nice to know modeling info, kits, recommended modifications etc.  

The sheet is at the bottom of this page

http://millcreekconsultants.com/WP72-3.html

John sorry to be pimping for all these aftermarket sellers lately, hope I'm not causing you to blow all the grocery money.

I've ordered the Green Hornets book on your recomendation, so it hasn't all been one sided.

Mel,

  I can definitely recommend the Mutza Green Hornet book.  Very nice and lots and lots of photos.  Definitely a great resource if you have an interest in the 20th SOS.  If I were doing a H-3, it'd have to be Black Mariah I think.  Very unique and the paint scheme is within the realm of my meager talents

   Ray

Here are two scans of a single pic (it is on two pages of  the book, centerfold style) of two CH-53s at Vang Vieng in Laos, "the northernmost airstrip under government control".

pretty low vis as you can see.

Aaronw ,

You have been a huge help with my questions .

I checked the link you posted on the Pilatus Porter and then found the link to http://www.hiplanes.com/new/intropage.htm , here in my neck of the woods .

Actually I have made a few purchases from High planes over these past few years , mostly vacu-form conversion sets , I forgot that they had limited run injected molded kits as well .

There was a couple of listings for the Porter in RAAF service but more importantly there is a 1/72 scale Fairchild AU-23 Peacemaker that the USAF used .

The kit comes with a different nose shape for the Garrett engined aircraft and decals for a white aircraft with blue trim for the CIA's Air America operating over Laos . The kit is priced at $25 [AUS] . So I have placed an order for one .

I've also decided to order the book 'Wings of Air America' , so I'm off to a good start , I have also back-ordered a C-7 Caribou from tower hobbies .

I'm hoping a lot of the other aircraft and helicopters Air America used , I may already have in my 420+ stash of kits .

I really appreciate your help , thank's again ...

                                    John

I'm not familiar with the book but I did find a description of it at a used book site

LOVE, TERRY Wings of Air America : A Photo History Arglen, PA: Schiffer Publishing, 1998. Paperback. 22 x 28 cm.; pg. 104; A Schiffer Military History Book. Map, introduction, 210 color and black-and-white photos. "Air America was the largest of the CIA's secret airlines. Air America was one of the world's most extraordinary airlines. It was run by the CIA, operated secret missions, publicly flew scheduled routes, and at its peak, Air America had the largest commercial fleet in the world! The airline emerged from China after World War II, had close ties to the famous Flying Tigers, Claire Chennault, other airlines, and foreign governments. Revealed here, for the first time, is some of the flight equipment that was used on some of [Air America's] secret missions [especially in Laos and Vietnam]. Unsung, unheralded, but always brave, courageous, and dedicated [Air America] lived up to, and often died, with Air America's motto of 'Anything, Anywhere, Anytime--Professionally'. " ISBN: 0764306197 ; 0764306197. As New with no dust jacket .

If it is like the other Schiffer photo books I have, each page is probably about 1/2 photos and 1/2 text. 

I came across this book , while searching around google images for pic's of Air America Aircraft and Helicopters .

I was wondering if anyone has this book or has any additional information about the contents .

The reason why I ask is , I have previously bought books over the net , which were titled a "pictorial or photo " history of Aircraft and Helicopters but I was disappointed when I recieved books in the mail , as they only had a few images included and most of the book[s] were text.

I'm more interested in reference pic's of Air America Aircraft and Helicopters so I'll have a better idea what kits to buy to make up a small collection of Aircraft .

                                           John .

Looks like an interesting book, I'll have to add it to my wish list. I just got his H-43 Husky book the other day.

I have the Schiffer H-34 book, it lists the Air America H-34s. Most of their H-34s came from the USMC, with a few USN and even one USCG. Most of the photos included look like the light green used on many USMC helicopters in the 60s. The only markings are the serial on the tail. They also had a few converted to turbine power.

It does look like there is a Porter in 1/72

http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/mod/alcottpc6.htm

Here's another full page scan from Wayne Mutza's book .

I think it would be interesting to obtain some more information on the aircraft and helicopters in the middle pic .

The Caribou appears to be white all over, [I think] , I'm not sure if there is Pilatus Porter is available in 1/72 scale and I'm not sure what type of Huey was used by Air America , [B/C or D].

I'm also not sure of the color scheme of the H-34 either . The Green Hornets book discibes the 34's as being operated by the Kingbees ???

This topic sure got my interest

                                       John

 I recently picked up two 1/72 scale Lindberg HH-3E kits .

I payed $27.95 and $29.50 ... "YIKES" , For the kits .

I was thinking of building one as a Black Mariah , I also have a couple of Italeri HH-53C's in my stash .

Geomodeller's post has given me some thought of building a few Helo's that operated in and out of Laos .

The other HH-3E kit , I can't decide wether to finish her with a Euro one scheme or a overall gray scheme with a black and yellow fuselage band , maybe a gray over white scheme or the Desert Storm color's of sand and brown .

Perhaps I'll think about buying another three kits and do all the paint schemes

                         John

John,

Thanks for posting that page.  I may have to get that book!  Looked like one CH-3 had the colored national insigna of the small size and the other didn't even appear to have any marking not even a SN number on the tail.

We need a good CH-3 in 1/48! 

Here's a scan of the full page of the pic I posted earlier .

                                                       John

 I'm not sure if this pic is of any use , It's from the Wayne Mutza Book , Green Hornets , The History of the USAF 20th Special Operations Squadron .

I appoligise for the poor quality of the image . We updated our scanner a while back and I'm having trouble croping images , anyway I'll look through the book for some more pic's if you think they might be of some help ???

                                              John.

No photos but this site has a data base you might be able to look up aircraft, then use it to check if the photos you find are of the appropriate aircraft.

PJs in Nam

http://pjsinnam.com

Here is another that might help, it lists units by location among other things.

Jolly Green Association

http://jollygreen.org

Thanks for the comments so far. I agree that there were probably none officially based in Laos (which is why I was careful not to imply that in my original post) but they would probably have frequently staged out of places such as Pakse, Saravan, Vientiane and maybe Long Tieng.

If the markings on US Hueys and UH-34's operated over Laos are any indication of the Jolly's markings, it would be fair to assume that the stars and bars would have been deleted (or significantly reduced in size) but that the aircraft would have retained their tail and nose ID markings.

I'm trying to find a photo that shows such markings so that I can be confident that the example I model was definitely used in/over Laos. The Italeri kit included markings for a machine based at Phu Cat (Vietnam) and it is possible that this particular example appeared over Laos at some stage... but I like to have some historical certainty in my collection.

I'm fairly sure they were based out of Thialand and Da Nang and "staged" maybe in places further north.  As for markings I don't think they had any but the really small "star and bar" and the tail number.  They didn't want anything for the NVA to use as a sight picture on the huge beast.  I'll check a few of my books and see what I can find.  Fairly certain everything was subdued markings on the Jolly Greens.