We Were Soldiers Huey gunship - turning the Revell 1/48 Huey Hog kit into one...

Oh dear, the pics don't seem to have worked, if anyone wants to view them they're here - www.imfdb.org/.../We_Were_Soldiers

I'm glad to see you moving forward with the kit.   A few particulars about the gunships from the Ia Drang battle.  First they were UH-1B's not UH-1C's.  The Huey used in the movie was also a UH-1B.  However, the M21 gun system (M134 miniguns and M157 rocket pods) shown in the movie wasn't aroun in November of 65.  The actual gunships that flew in the Ia Drang were UH-1B's from the 2/20th ARA and most were armed with the M3 system consisting of a 24 shot rocket pod on either side and no miniguns.   There were probably also Hueys armed with the M16 quad M60C/M157 rocket system which comes in the Revell kit.  You can use the UH-1D rotors cut down to make a very respectable UH-1B from the Revell kit.  There are still some inaccuracies for a early B model but it's the easiest build with what you have.

Here are a few pics of the actual UH-1B's that participated in the battle. pIcs from the USAAM:

Here is a UH-1C (the earliest photo of one in country I can find, in fact) that also flew with the 2/20th.  I suppose there is a slight possibility it was also involved in the battle.  Anyway, it shows the M16 gun system I mentioned above.

I hope that helps.

  Ray 

Thanks Ray

I've taken a few screencaps from the film (using VLC) and put them into a collage for identification, just to make sure (admittedly they're not all that good).

img836.imageshack.us/.../vlcsnap2013042123h54m27.jpg

img836.imageshack.us/.../vlcsnap2013042123h54m27.jpg

And this pic (a slightly larger version of the bottom left pic on the collage above)  - img442.imageshack.us/.../vlcsnap2013042123h57m14.jpg

img442.imageshack.us/.../vlcsnap2013042123h57m14.jpg

Looking at those pics I can now see it is a UH-1B as you said Ray, it appears to have the "bell mouth" intake, which as far as I understand it is related to the UH-1B, whereas the UH-1C has the particle separator like on the Revell kit, although your pics of a UH-1C above appear to show the "bell mouth" intake also (a little confusing I have to say).

The tail shape shown in the caps of the film leaves me a little confused though, it's a bit different to the one on the Revell kit, in particular it looks different towards the bottom where it meets the tail boom area of the fuselage.

I'll just go with sticking the M21 system from the ESCI kit (which is nearly done in my opinion, pics will be posted  in a couple of days hopefully) on the Revell kit and make the kit up as it is I think (I'm loath to cut down the UH-1D's rotors as I need them for the UH-1D, and getting hold of an old kit (Lindberg or Monorgram) with a "bell mouth" intake to use seems impossible, and I'm not good enough to scratchbuild it).  I've made the M21 system detachable from the UH-1D anyway, using tiny magnets so it's easily done to put them on the Revell kit.  I plan on making the M16 system detachable in the same way also so I can swap them around.

As I understand it though the mounts on the Revell kit that go under the fuselage are incorrect, would you happen to have any close-ups of the actual M16 system mounts Ray, I might be able to scratch build them from thin plasti-card, or cut in half and file down the ones Revell supply with the kit?

Decals are easy to do for the heli in question because there is only the 1st Air Cav symbol on the nose and either side of the tail, the blue triangle on the cockpit doors, the number on the nose, and the US Army decal on either side of the tail boom.  Can't really spot any others so far.  There does appear to be some black writing on the tail but I can't really see what it is.  Doesn't quite look as flash as the Marines HML-267 livery but I've gone off the idea of painting that.

The Gunship depicted with the mini-guns was not correct for that time period.  "HOLLYWOOD"!  They woud have had the quad 60's which comes in the kit.  It would also would not have had the 540 rotor system with the wide cord blades which comes with the the kit.  The vertical fin is correct for the B model.  You need to rob the rotor head off a 1/48th Ertl UH-1D and shorten the blades.  The Revelogram 1/48 kit has to be "customized" to build a correct B or C model.   We need a new decent kit!!!

Ray,

You have been a busy boy!  Don't know why your post wasn't showing when I wrote mine!  My hat's off to ya for all the info you provided!

Assuming you are looking to replicate the movie helo, it has several mods.  First, it has neither a bell mouth intake or a particle separator.  My guess is the producers realized the particle separator wasn't correct for the period, but almost every short bodied Huey eventually got one.  Soooo...I think they just removed the whole filter system on the bird used for the film.  The reason the UH-1C above has the bell mouth intake is because the particle separator wasn't even tested till 66 in the states and most in country birds didn't get them till 67 or after.

The tail is a UH-1C tail boom replacement with the cambered wide chord tail fin but retaining the narrow chord UH-1B sync elevators.  That is a very common mod seen later in Vietnam as UH-1B tailbooms failed often.  The only reason the end looks weird is the tail boom cap is missing.  It's just a fiberglass aerodynamic cover that is usually present.

Regarding pics of the M156 mount, yeah I think I might be able help there

This is a UH-1B on display at Ft. Rucker in the US Army Aviation Museum:

I think that will probably do, but I do have more if you need them.  note the M158 rocket pod isn't correct for the 65 time period.  By the way, the M156 mount is the SAME on any gun or rocket system used with US Army Hueys.  HTH 

  Ray

Melgyver

Ray,

You have been a busy boy!  Don't know why your post wasn't showing when I wrote mine!  My hat's off to ya for all the info you provided!

Mel,

This boy needs to get busy on my Huey build!  Glad you liked the info.

  Ray

Well, maybe I'll be able to turn out some Hueys when I retire the end of the year!  Just hope they can turn out as good as I would like them to!  The 174th AHC Reunion is weekend after next in Ft. Walton Beach, FL.  I'll be heading down there next Mon.  We will have some neat stuff this year to celebrate our 20th year of having Reunions.  Special Joe Kline print is one of them.  Check it out on our web page  www.174ahc.org.  They will be offered to the public after a period of time.  I'm hauling down the left pilots station of a Huey consisting of a complete armored seat, cyclic, colective and tail rotor pedals.  I can hear the war stories now!  

Thanks again Ray.  From the looks of those pics the mount (the actual bit that fits to the underside of the heli) is pretty much shaped like the ones that the ESCI kit comes with and are used as one either side of the heli, not one big mount that spans the whole of the underside, which is how the mount is in the Revell kit.  So I can probably replicate that by grinding/cutting down the original ones from the Revell kit, or make them from thin plasti-card, have to see which works best (i.e. I mess up the grinding/cutting of the original parts and resort to plasti-card. lol).

As for the accuracy of the weapons system on the movie helicopter - I'm not bothered, I can switch the M21 system out for the weapon system that comes with the Revell kit easily, hence using magnets on the UH-1D.

Thanks for the info on the tail, yes it does look weird.  I might grind down the side of the tail on the Revell kit to match though.

You might be right on the intake, looking at the heli from the head on shot in the film it appears to not have the "bell mouth" as you can't see it, but from the side shots there is a hint of something there, almost like a cut down "bell mouth".  I'll have a look at the kit and see if I can get away with leaving off the particle separator on the model to achieve that effect.

Hello All!  I'm Matt and I am new to this forum and largely new to scale modeling.  I am currently building a 1:48 scale Huey Hog and I was hoping to add a soldier figurine at the side door.  Does anyone know where I could get a Vietnam era figure that would work well for this.  I have searched for 1:48 scale soldiers and the search results normally include only WWII era infantry and tank crews.

One other question, does anyone know the approximate, appropriate size for a 1:48 soldier?  Lots of the toy soldier buckets you can order online say that the soldiers are about 2" tall.  Would this work?

There is clearly a lot I don't know about scale modeling.  Don't worry--I have a "beginners" book on the way.

Thanks in advance!

Matt  

Hello has all.

I allow to settle down in the discussion and I apologize for it, but I try to realize a dio on the same battle and one of my huey is a court, uh-1b and I do not know what to install(settle) him(her) as armament, had this model of huey at the time of this battle him(it) lance - pomegranate(grenade) M5 to install(settle), with the good(property) on rockets M3 and M60 on each side, with the sagami assembly(editing) or with the belt attaché in the ceiling of the helo?

I hope to have been clear, I am French and I make many models on Vietnam and I often read to you to know how to make and to learn the differences of huey. I thank in the rotorwash passage for multitudes of information.

i45.servimg.com/.../dsc_0416.jpg

one photo of my dio .

cheers .

phil.

Phil,

 If you are making a  UH-1B for your diorama, I'd arm her with the 24 shot M-3 Rocket system.  Thes following pics are from CWO Parker and show aircraft that participated in the battle.

 Ray

Let me know if you need better pics of the M3 system.  I'm not aware of any M5 40mm armed birds in the Ia Drang battle.

Gees, he & we  were young then, an dam near invincible 

Steve, are you one of the people in the 2/20th pics I posted?

  Ray

Hello has all.

Thank you, ray, for your answer since the time or I wanted to speak about this diorama and to find solutions to finish him(it), I did not arrive has to decide on me to come here but here is it is made .Autre question, ray, for the art of the nose, it will not be the same for the long UH-1D body because it is not the same unitée.

cheers .

Phil.

I return, I have to find the photo about which I spoke for the art of the nose, it is the photo which belongs has rotorwash:

i58.servimg.com/.../pict1810.jpg

Both huey have two art of different noses, were they has the battle of ia drang?

phil .

Phil's pic is the correct nose art.

For what it is worth, while the Marine paint scheme may be of a real world aircraft, I think the ordnance setup (for both the Revell and the Corgi) is incorrect.  As far as I know, the Marine UH-1Es never flew with that setup - they had their own unique ordnance kits.  While the Marines did get some UH-1Bs from the Army, I don't think that they were armed (at least not with Army ordnance systems).  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Randy,

 You are correct on all counts.  The Marines used the TK-2 (Temporary Kit 2) system which consisted of two staggered M60C's inboard an a 7 shot rocket pod (usually) outboard.  The rocket pod was called the M157 in Army parlance but was called the LAU something or other by the Marines.  The Marine rocket pods were also almost always white as they were Air Force pods.  Th only nose mounted system used by the Marines in Vietnam was the TAT 101 system with two M60C's.  It really really sucked from everything I have read about it (jams and malfunctions) and most crews abandoned it's use very quickly.  

   Ray