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I wanted a project, and for my sins, they gave me one... (HH-3E Jolly Green Giant build thread)

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  • Member since
    February 2013
I wanted a project, and for my sins, they gave me one... (HH-3E Jolly Green Giant build thread)
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:23 AM

I have been inspired by Helo 53's awesome Jolly Green/Pelican builds (detailed here and on ARC) and I am now the proud owner of a Revell 1/72 HH-3E kit.  Cool

Instead of dumping the details of my progress into my Huey build thread I shall be detailing my progress of building it in this thread, the Huey thread is already bloated with pics and stuff and it's probably best to put a new build in it's own thread to keep things tidy.

The kit itself looks like a nice kit even though it was made in 1969, I noticed a little flash on some of the parts whilst briefly looking the model over but it's far better than the Revell UH-1 I bought and recently looked at building (the fuselage is more solid for a start).  Even though it's a 2nd hand kit all it's parts are there, but unfortunately the clear windscreen part has some marks on it.

I will also recommend the seller I bought it from - Kingkit.co.uk, I was a little dubious to being with the other day but it turns out there's been no probs with ordering the kit or receiving it, I ordered the kit on Saturday and received it today.  There are also a lot of older/pre-owned kits on there, including a couple of others I've been eyeing up...

I do however have a Fujimi 1/72 SH-3H on it's way from Japan that I will use for detailing the HH-3E, wish it would hurry up and get here now though...

The fuselage is shorter nose to tip of tail than I expected though, I did some number crunching based on the real life measurements of a HH-3E (found on WIkipedia) and the fuselage length should have been 310mm, but it's actually just a little over 230mm long.  Probably my error though.  However I am now wondering if a 1/48 HH-53 would really be the 559mm (22") length I calculated the other day...

I hope to make a better job of this kit than I have the ESCI UH-1D rotorwash kindly sent me - I feel that I let myself down with all the breakages and the rather bad gap in the fuselage halves that I could probably have fixed.

No pics of progress yet though, I only got the kit today and pics of the sprues can be found on the web easily enough.

I plan on using the colour scheme on the box art, I have seen it referred to as the SEA Camo scheme.  I've read that a good technique for doing it is to use blu-tack and masking tape to mask the various different colour areas off and then spray with an airbrush. 

Hopefully I can do that reasonably well with my Badger 250.

Some questions though before I start on it -

1.  What parts should I look at using from the Fujimi SH-3H kit.  I already know of using the engine intakes, the shield in front of the engine intakes (don't know the proper name for it), the rotors (blades and hub/mast), the cockpit/interior, and perhaps the "dog house" as I've heard it referred to - the top of the engine bay where the rotors poke through.  Anything else I could use from the Fujimi kit?

2.  Whilst I'm talking about the "dog house" - what's the best way to cut that off (on both the HH-3E and SH-3H)?  Straight cut down somewhere in the middle/back of that part and then a straight cut from the front to meet the downwards cut using a razor saw, or follow the contours of the bodywork with a knife?

3.  As it's the Revell kit, not the Lindberg kit do I even need to replace the "dog house"?  Where I've seen Helo 53 do it I think it was on a Lindberg kit that he kitbashed with a Revell Sea King?

4.  Decals.  The HH-3E kit itself comes with a sheet of just 11 decals.  Can anyone recommend any better decals (in 1/72 of course) that I could buy (and that are readily available)?

5.  Assuming I mess up the SEA Camo colour scheme would it be terribly inaccurate to paint it just plain OD?

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • From: Lexington, VA
Posted by USAFSPOOK on Wednesday, July 31, 2013 11:13 PM

You could do an overall black scheme to represent "Black Mariah" of the 20th SOS in Vietnam.  She now resides in the Museum of the United States Air Force.  The only markings are the serial number in red on the tail--39676.  Not sure if that is how marked during the war but is how she is marked now.  Many of the HH-3s used by the 20th and 21st SOS in Vietnam did not carry any markings or carried the national insignia in a removable bracket for cross border operations into Laos, so you could leave it in a SEA scheme with no markings at all--just the usual warning markings in red.  Might consider replacing the tail rotor and landing gear as well.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Thursday, August 1, 2013 9:13 AM
Regarding the lenght of helicopters most or the time this is total lenght including the main and tail rotor disks not just the fusalage.

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Sunday, August 4, 2013 6:30 PM

Thanks Mel.  It's very likely that I measured it wrong anyway.

Anyhoo I've assembled the majority of the model that comes in the kit - there's not really a lot of it.  Nice build and the fuselage fits together quite nicely, although I think I need to sand down the "spine" of the helicopter to make it look less sharp where the fuselage halves meet.

I'm kind of hesitant of posting pics though, due to the lack of quality my BlackBerry 8900 gives, the pics I took of my Huey were a bit hit and miss, I'll see how some turn out this time.

I'm waiting on the Fujimi SH-3H which is obviously on a slow boat from Japan as it hasn't reached me yet, I can't progress much further without it.

But I do have some sanding/filing to do because I cut the door on the right hand side out (I like they way Helo-34 (Helo-53 on ARC) did that), but I got a bit over zealous (and used a Dremel which I probably shouldn't have) and there was quite a sizeable gap between what was left of the door and the rest of that half of the fuselage.  So I took some plasticard and cut it to fit around the door on the outside so it covers up the gap, but it's 40though (I think) plasticard and it looks too thick in my opinion, so I need to file/sand it down some.

I also added a piece of the same 40though plasticard to the rear door on the outside, because there were some rather nasty moulding circles on it, again it's a bit thick but doesn't look too bad, I can live with it, certainly looks better than the original door did on it's exterior.

@USAFSPOOK - Yes I saw the Black Mariah the other day.  Not sure I like a plain matt black Jolly Green though, but yes if I mess up the SEA camo I'll certainly consider it.  With regards to the landing gear - what would you recommend?  I can't really use the Fujimi SH-3H landing gear because I'll only have left/right because it doesn't have nose gear, just a tail wheel.

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Sunday, August 4, 2013 6:50 PM

Found some awesome reference pics the other day.

Here (Russian language site from what I can make out) - igor113.livejournal.com/191567.html

And here (not so close up though) - www.airliners.net/.../photo.search

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Sunday, August 4, 2013 6:53 PM

Looking for some M60's in 1/72 to put in the window on the left and door on the right and perhaps on the rear ramp, so far the only decent ones I've come across are these - www.herpa.de/.../detail.aspx

There in 1/87 and I'm not sure they're all M60's either.

And I may also be using this crew set as it has a gunner that may work for the door on the right hand side - www.modelhobbies.co.uk/.../productions-helicopter-crew-vietnam-721129-p-45357.html

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 4, 2013 7:10 PM

go forth and sin no more

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Monday, August 5, 2013 5:42 AM

OK here's some pics, apologies for the quality as usual.

This shows the magnets holding the halves of the fuselage together, corresponding magnets on the other half, the fuselage is such a good fit that these 4 magnets is all that the model needs.

These next 2 pics show the undercarriage on and off, I've attached them using magnets, so I can remove them when I hang it from my ceiling...

Plasticard around the door, the door isn't fixed in, or at least it shouldn't be.  Still need to sand/file down the black plasticard as it's too thick in my opinion.

Rear ramp exterior -

Drop tanks are detachable, again magnets, wonderful little things, although I may take my razor saw to the bits on the end of each sponson where the drop tanks attach, hack them off, glue them to the drop tanks and then re-attach via magnets that way and smooth out the gap left on the sponsons, so that I can have the smooth sided sponsons or the drop tank holding sponsons -

Here you can see where I've had to fill the gaps in between the fuselage and the sponson where I've put Green Stuff to make them level, I tried using squadron filler, think I should have got some Mr Surfacer instead, you can also see the magnets that hold the undercarriage on -

That's it so far, I'm stuck waiting for my Fujimi SH-3H Sea King kit to arrive from Japan before I can progress much further.

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Monday, August 5, 2013 7:52 AM

Think I have a source for 1/72 M60 door guns for this bird - I purchased in error an Italeri UH-60 Blackhawk (night storm kit or whatever it's called), I wanted it in 1/48 and was looking at the kit in 1/72 and 1/48 on two different pages and bought the wrong one, lol.  Anyhoo that kit has M60's on either side so I can use those for the M60's on either side of this, the one in the doorway might need a bit of work to make it look like it's on the arm they them on though.

Wish I could find something for the rear ramp, but I prefer the ramp to be up anyway.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Monday, August 5, 2013 9:13 PM

I'm wondering when the HH-3 changed designations from the HH-3 to the HH-53. Whenever I hear the designation HH-3 I am always thinking about the SH-3 Seaking.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Monday, August 5, 2013 9:33 PM

The HH-3E and the HH-53 are two different helicopters.  

The HH-3E is based on the Sikorsky S-61R which was developed from the S-61/SH-3 Sea King.

See here -

HH-3E (Sikorsky S61R) - en.wikipedia.org/.../HH-3E

HH-53 - en.wikipedia.org/.../HH-53

HH-3 (or SH-3 Sea King) - en.wikipedia.org/.../HH-3

Personally when anyone says Jolly Green Giant I think of the HH-3E not the HH-53 which I associate more with the Pave Low designation.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Tuesday, August 6, 2013 11:13 AM

The Navy operated the HH-3A, I am not sure what the differences between the A and the E are, other than the HH-3A being converted from the SH-3A and the HH-3E being converted from the CH-3E.

edit: I did a little research and now realize that one external difference is the positions of the cargo doors and pylon/floats.

Here is an E:

Here is an A:

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, August 6, 2013 1:38 PM

The rear fuselage, tailboom, rear ramp, tail, elevator, landing gear setup, etc., etc., etc.... are totally different on an E as well.  They are not really even the same helo after the conversion.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    January 2010
Posted by CrashTestDummy on Tuesday, August 6, 2013 3:19 PM

Raven Morpheus

OK here's some pics, apologies for the quality as usual.

<SNIP>

Drop tanks are detachable, again magnets, wonderful little things, although I may take my razor saw to the bits on the end of each sponson where the drop tanks attach, hack them off, glue them to the drop tanks and then re-attach via magnets that way and smooth out the gap left on the sponsons, so that I can have the smooth sided sponsons or the drop tank holding sponsons -

<SNIP>

They are, aren't they?  I am mostly done with the Lindberg 'Human Heart' kit I'm putting together for my wife (she's a perfusionist).  I am using the magnets to keep it together on it's stand, yet allow it to be disassembled at will.  I just need to paint it. 

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

G. Beaird,

Pearland, Texas

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Wednesday, August 7, 2013 1:25 AM

Cool, sounds good.

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Thursday, August 8, 2013 5:16 PM

HeavyArty

The rear fuselage, tailboom, rear ramp, tail, elevator, landing gear setup, etc., etc., etc.... are totally different on an E as well.  They are not really even the same helo after the conversion.

Boy! And howdy! They really are different. Thanks to pointing out the other variations between the two, Gino, but the nose looks the same. Smile

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Friday, August 9, 2013 9:35 AM

Yup, the nose/cockpit area and the engine housing area is about all they share and that's why when  Helo H-34 did a build of a Lindberg HH-3E he used a  Revell Westland Seaking MK 41 for the nose/cockpit among other parts, because the Lindberg kit is too pointed on the nose - cs.finescale.com/.../90644.aspx

It was that build and his build at ARC of the  Revell HH-3E kit that inspired me to buy and build this kit myself.

Still waiting for my Fujimi SH-3H Sea King though so I can get on and finish this build, it's been 2 weeks since I ordered it, seller states it can take 3 weeks though due to the slow boat from Japan and customs and whatnot.

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Thursday, August 15, 2013 8:35 AM

So, finally got the Fujimi SH-3H kit I shall be using as a donor for detail parts for this bird (tail rotor, main rotor assembly, cockpit interior, perhaps some interior aft of the cockpit, rescue winch (nothing else I can think of at the moment, would be grateful for any suggestions for other parts I can use)).

But I also have a Revell Sea King Mk41 kit now because I got impatient and wanted to be getting on with this build - I'll be building/painting that up as a RAF HAR3 SAR bird, one of those yellow ones (using Airfix decals) - should be nice and easy, just spray it white for primer then spray it yellow!

I'll have a crack at getting some more of this bird done tomorrow and post some more progress pics (the other day I managed to "fix" the overly thick bit of plasticard I put around where I cut the door out).  Just hope I don't run out of poly cement, I'm getting low on it and I'll have to wait for the new bottle I just ordered...

Not really sure what to do with the rest of the Fujimi kit that I won't be using though - if anyone would like the left overs (almost a whole heli, certainly the body) please feel free to drop me a PM (bear in mind I live in the UK so shipping might be costly).

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:09 AM

Update time...

Did some work on this yesterday and today (couldn't last Friday due to other things) and here's some pics showing the progress -

Canopy

I've put a little tab of 10thou plasticard on the centre at the bottom of the canopy to go with 2 tabs I've put on either side of the fuselage, to hold the canopy on, see below for side pics.  I think I may have made an error in doing that though as that centre part of the canopy is not going to be painted, so you'll see that part, I may have to trim it down and hope for the best... 

I may just settle for taking the canopy off the Fujimi SH-3H kit and start again, assuming it fits (the original Revell canopy you see above came with some marks on the right hand side of it anyway).

Should have checked what I was doing against photos before I did it...

Cockpit

Cockpit assembly was made from the original Revell cockpit with the floor turned upside down and then I put the Fujimi cockpit floor on top of it and added the seats and instrument panel (had to sand the back of the instrument panel a little though and I haven't quite got it even, yet).  Still need to add the collective (for some reason the Fujimi kit only includes one?!), the cyclic sticks and the pedals (again there's only 1 of these, I think, have to double check that).

Interior

I made my own interior, using black plasticard (think it's either 30thou or 40thou) and the rear bulkhead from the Fujimi interior.  It's very basic as you can see and is primarily designed to give me a floor to put the crew chief in the door (when I get the figures) and also to support the pole for the main rotor so it's at the correct level.

Left Side

Here you can see one of the tabs I mentioned (the black plasticard piece), there is one on the other side, and these hold the canopy on.

Right Side

I fixed the monstrosity that was the black plasticard surround (same stuff as I made the interior out of, see previous pics)  that I had to put around where I cut the door out.  I managed to cut it off and replace it with some white 10thou plasticard, then I sanded it down and once painted you'll only know it's there by running your fingers over it, hopefully.  I'm also hoping the scratches/sanding marks come out with a coat of Mr Surfacer 1000 (not sure if I should do the whole bird or just specific areas) and/or a coat of Halfords grey spray primer (really don't know which method to use at this point in time as a primer, a full coat of Mr Surfacer 1000 (would have to be airbrushed) or just paint the scratched areas with Mr Surfacer 1000 and then do an overall primer with the Halfords primer).  Needs a little work done on the top inside edge still though, it looks a little untidy.

In this pic you can also see the FOD shield I borrowed from the Fujimi kit, it fitted quite nicely but needs a little filling with 10thou plasticard strips under it.  I was going to borrow the engine air intake from the Fujimi kit also, but it seemed to be narrower and I felt it would need a lot of work to make it fit and look good, so I decided not to use it, you can't see the bulk of the original Revell air intakes anyway.

Side Door

No real change here, just thought I'd mention (possibly again) that it's a bit smaller than it really should be, due my overzealous cutting - I used a dremel when I should have stuck with a knife.  Looks OK when on the side though.

Rear ramp

Outside of rear ramp.  As I previously stated I put a piece of black plasticard on the outside of the original Revell rear ramp because it had some rather nasty circular mould marks on it, it was however a bit too thick, I believe it's either 30thou or 40thou plasticard.  I've tried sanding it down to make it thinner, it has worked OK but it's rather scratched, I'm hoping that isn't noticeable once I've primed it and/or coated it with Mr Surfacer 1000 (again not entirely sure what to do).

I'm currently thinking that I should have stuck a piece or the 10thou white plasticard that I have over the original rear ramp, or perhaps 2.  That would have been thin enough and wouldn't have required sanding, thus saving me the hassle of working out how to smooth out the scratches without take forever to do it...

Tail Rotor

Tail rotor from the Fujimi SH-3H kit.  Unfortunately I somehow managed to get the magnet that I've placed in it to hold it on the tail fin (or the magnet in the tail, or both) at an odd angle, and I have to have it with 1 specific blade pointing down, or as near as, to get the tail rotor level (it's either skewed out to the left or points inwards towards the tail otherwise or it does both), hence the Tamiya tape on the end of that blade - it reminds me which blade I need pointing down.  Don't know if I'll mark it specially when painted though, might look a bit odd.

Main Rotor

Nothing special here, just the main rotor assembly from the Fujimi SH-3H kit.  Too big to get any decent photo of it with my BlackBerry (not that my BB takes any decent photos anyway).  I may in due course put it on a plate and weigh it down to get some droop in the rotors.

Rotor Hub Housing

Cut/drilled/filed/ground/sanded a hole in the top of the fuselage to accommodate a) the pole that supports the main rotor and b) the main rotor hub.  It went well I think, it's not quite perfect but once the rotor is on you can't tell.

Fully Assembled pics

As you can see above it's coming together quite nicely.  2nd pic of the three directly above shows the floor of the interior looking through the door (that's where I'll be putting the crew chief figure, hopefully holding an M60 from a 1/72 Blackhawk).  The last pic shows the rear ramp down - I had to add magnets to either side (and in the fuselage) because whilst sanding down the rear ramp I sanded off the little tabs that held it in place when closed.  Doh!!  Just imagine there's some cable there (I may add some thread to simulate cables at a later date anyway).

I still have a little work to do regards filling of gaps, plus I keep forgetting to assemble the winch from the Fujimi SH-3H and add it to the model (although I'll probably leave it assembled but separate until painting of the fuselage is completed due to having to paint the camo scheme on) but aside from that I'm almost done assembling this model.

Need to buy an air compressor before I start painting though, and that may take a while so I think I'll go back to assembling the 1/35 Academy UH-1C and/or HTL-4.

BTW I would greatly appreciate any advice regards smoothing out the scratches/sanding marks on the rear door and around the side door (and a few elsewhere) - I'm really not sure what to do about those and I don't know if just coating in primer and/or Mr Surfacer would be the thing to do.

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: back country of SO-CAL, at the birth place of Naval Aviation
Posted by DUSTER on Thursday, August 22, 2013 7:05 PM

Raven Morpheus

BTW I would greatly appreciate any advice regards smoothing out the scratches/sanding marks on the rear door and around the side door (and a few elsewhere) - I'm really not sure what to do about those and I don't know if just coating in primer and/or Mr Surfacer would be the thing to do.

OK the concept is simple (getting it to work out is something else).

The idea is each grade of sanding (paper/stick ) is finer than the grade before. So each one will produce a scratch of it own size or "grit"  (50 grit,30 grit, 100 grit, 500 grit, 1000 grit ,etc.).

So each progressively finer (higher number) grit will remove the scratches from the one before and leave only their size scratch; each finer grit will be shinier/ smoother than the one before.    

Eventually you could get into the 1000s and won't hardly be able to see the scratches, just a resulting shine.(think of metal jewelry)

The amount of shine (or size of scratches [grit] ) can be less than for a natural metal finish, if you appling regular paint (acrylic/enamel) as the "scratches" will be filled by the liquid. 

On natural metal schemes with Alclad II the base plastic and base coat (usually black) has to be nearly flawless, so you'd want to get a very high shine (high # grit 1200+, etc.)  on your plastic.

I hope this helps and answers what I thought was you question. 

Looking forward to your next installment.

 

 

 

Steve

Building the perfect model---just not quite yet  Confused

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:03 PM

Thanks that kind of helps.

Not sure what grade the emery boards I've been using are, I bought an assorted pack of el-cheapo ones sold to women for their nails, so in terms of grit I don't really know which one to start at.

I think it's a case of "suck it and see" for me, I'll rough up a few pieces of spare plasticard with the emery boards I've got, then airbrush (or apply by brush, which might be better for small areas) some Mr Surfacer 1000 on one, spray just Halfords primer (basically acrylic car primer, apparently according to people on Britmodeller.com it's great as a primer) on another piece and I'll try 1000 grit wet/dry paper on a piece and then see which one gives me the best results before I do it to the model.

I thought of using a dremel sanding disc/cylinder but they don't seem fine enough (commonly 60-240 grit).

Primarly it's the rear ramp (as you can see in the pic above it's scratched quite a lot) and also either side of the hole where I cut the door out (and of course the white plasticard I put around it).

There are a few other smaller areas but they're not as bad.

I'm kind of hoping that applying Mr Surfacer 1000 to those areas alone (thus filling the scratches and smoothing out those areas, hopefully) will save me from endless sanding, and the expense of buying various grades of sandpaper.

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Friday, August 23, 2013 6:14 AM

OK so a minor update.  I tried the Fujimi cockpit windows (or canopy or whatever you wish to call that piece) and it doesn't fit, for some reason one side of it sticks out quite a lot above the fuselage behind it as though it's squared off!  I'm hoping that's due to the shape of the Revell HH-3E on that side, not that it's a faulty part as I could build the Fujimi Sea King (sans cockpit) if I obtain a spare main and tail rotor and a FOD shield (I might ask RoG if they can supply me with one of theirs).

I also tried the same part from the Revell Sea King I've got and that's also a no go, slightly better fitting than the Fujimi kit, but still too big.  I could cut away at the fuselage to get it to fit but knowing me I'd probably make the issue worse and I'd have to get a new clear parts sprue from RoG to do so, otherwise I'll have no canopy for the Revell Sea King...

So I'm stuck with the mark on the lower front of the canopy.

I have read elsewhere that lightly sanding off the glue, rubbing it with toothpaste, cleaning off the toothpaste and then dipping the piece in Future works to make such errors look better so I'll have a go at that - I can't really make it any worse.   I probably need to dip it in future anyway as I'm going to use some Eduard masks for the Revell Sea King (and I've read that applying them over a Future coated piece prevents bleed through), although having just test fitted the Revell piece I'm now wondering if those masks will be too big for the Jolly Green...

Failing that working I'll have to source a new kit and take the canopy from that.  I also came up with an idea of putting retracted undercarriage in (attached via the same magnets that hold the undercarriage in when it's down) for if/when I hang this model from  my ceiling, so buying another kit will enable me to do that also - but I'm thinking that as the HH-3E kits are costing >£10 it's a bit expensive for just a canopy and undercarriage parts (mind you I'd get another rear ramp so that'd help also).

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: back country of SO-CAL, at the birth place of Naval Aviation
Posted by DUSTER on Saturday, August 24, 2013 12:54 AM

Raven Morpheus

Thanks that kind of helps.

Not sure what grade the emery boards I've been using are, I bought an assorted pack of el-cheapo ones sold to women for their nails, so in terms of grit I don't really know which one to start at.

If you  get the type of foam emery boards that have 2 or 3 different colors on them (each color being a different grit. and usually you can see /feel the difference between the coarsest and the finest ,with the 3d being in the middle range.  also look for the kind of boards used to buff the nails after they are done these are very fine grade and useful for finishing up.

Raven Morpheus

I think it's a case of "suck it and see" for me, I'll rough up a few pieces of spare plasticard with the emery boards I've got, then airbrush (or apply by brush, which might be better for small areas) some Mr Surfacer 1000 on one, spray just Halfords primer (basically acrylic car primer, apparently according to people on Britmodeller.com it's great as a primer) on another piece and I'll try 1000 grit wet/dry paper on a piece and then see which one gives me the best results before I do it to the model.

Good idea  that way you can learn what is the best use of each type of board.

Raven Morpheus

I thought of using a dremel sanding disc/cylinder but they don't seem fine enough (commonly 60-240 grit).

You're right, those are too rough for just about any use in modeling building- though the 240 could be helpful in removing large amounts of plastic in a hurry

Raven Morpheus

Primarly it's the rear ramp (as you can see in the pic above it's scratched quite a lot) and also either side of the hole where I cut the door out (and of course the white plasticard I put around it).

There are a few other smaller areas but they're not as bad.

I'm kind of hoping that applying Mr Surfacer 1000 to those areas alone (thus filling the scratches and smoothing out those areas, hopefully) will save me from endless sanding, and the expense of buying various grades of sandpaper.

re costs: you can always get good results with any tool.  But the better quality tool will take you less effort to get those results. So a package multi grade of sanding pads or wet and dry type paper may be money well spent if you end up saving your self unneeded labor 

Sanding paper/sticks/pads are cheaper than buying another model, it doesn't take that many and  they can be used on more than one model 'til they wear out.

hope this helps, good luck .

Steve

Building the perfect model---just not quite yet  Confused

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Thursday, August 29, 2013 7:37 PM

So, done some more on this today, I'll post pics in a day or so as I didn't have a chance to take any today but basically I spent the day applying Mr Surfacer 1000 to some areas.

Mr Surfacer 1000 is awesome - it's filled in the gaps I tried to fill very well.

In hindsight I think I should have bought some Mr Surfacer 500 as the 1000 seems a bit too fine, it's basically like painting a layer of paint on, I didn't even use thinners and I don't think I'd need to.

It's a little time consuming though (hence it took me all day to fill a few gaps) and rather pungent, luckily you have to wait for the stuff to dry before applying another layer so I didn't get high as a kite because I could put the lid back on the pot while waiting to do the next layer...

I decided to cut the pylons that hold the drop tanks off the sponsons because I wasn't happy with how the drop tanks were attached  to the pylons via a single magnet each, they were very ill-fitting and loose. 

So I glued the drop tanks to the pylons as you would normally and I've attached the pylons via magnets to the sponsons instead, although I had to make a blank end for each sponson out of plasticard, and there were gaps that needed filling, especially between the end faces of the sponsons and the pylons.

Whilst I was filling the gaps left between the ends of the sponsons and the pylons I put tamiya tape between the two surfaces to stop them sticking to each other and the Mr Surfacer didn't stick the pylon to the tamiya tape as I thought it might, the tape just peeled straight off, which is fantastic! 

I was expecting that to turn into a disaster with me having to cut the tamiya tape off with a knife...

It looks better than when I had the drop tanks attached via a single magnet each but I think it will still be noticeable that the pylons are detachable.

I've seen loads of pics of the HH-3E and the vast majority have the drop tanks attached via the pylons.  However I've also seen pics of what are labelled as HH-3E where they don't have the pylons with drop tanks, just the flat ends of the sponsons.  I'm not sure if those birds are HH-3E or CH-3E or other variants? 

This pic is one of my favourites without the drop tanks -


I think that's a CH-3C though, but I can't tell the difference between it and the HH-3E aside from the lack of drop tanks.

Either way I personally prefer the look of the bird without the pylons that hold the drop tanks on, just having the flat ended sponsons looks better in my opinion.  But I've used magnets to attach those pylons so I have the option of having them on or off.

I might also cut the refuelling probe off and reattach it using magnets, I wish I had thought of that before I glued it in though because I could have used the pegs that are on that part which fit into the fuselage...

1000 grit wet and dry sandpaper seems to have smoothed out the outside of the rear ramp (and the few other areas that needed it), you can still see the scratches but it feels very very smooth and I think that  after a coat of primer and/or Mr Surfacer it will look just fine.

I also sprayed the tail rotor and the main rotor, with Humbrol matt black, but when trying to put some droop in the main rotor I ended up breaking off 2 of the blades at the joints on the hub (the plate I used for weight in the centre somehow managed to get stuck on the hub (paint probably wasn't quite dry) and I think it pulled on the 2 blades that broke as I was lifting it off).  Grrr.  Had to reattach them using CA, it's a bit blobbed on but hopefully once I carefully sand it a little and paint over it won't be too noticeable.

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 4:24 AM

OK here's some pics of the further progress I've made  on this.

Canopy

I tried to remove the glue mark on the front by grinding it down with a dremel, then "polishing" it using toothpaste, and dipping it in future.  It looks better than it did but I'm not 100% happy with it.  The other spot on the top will be painted over so that won't be noticeable.

I just don't seem to be particularly good at keep windshield parts in a good condition so far...

Cockpit

Nothing fancy here, just sprayed it matt black.  Need to paint and attach the cyclic sticks, collective stick, and pedals now.  Personally I can't do much with it because it's so small, my skills aren't that good, and you won't see most of it when it's behind the canopy anyway.

Drop tank and sponson

Here's the aforementioned adjustment to the sponson and pylons that hold the drop tanks on.  I'm pretty happy with it but I guess it could have been a little better.  The gap between the pylon and the sponson for one thing could have been less, although the camera does make it look worse than it is.

Grab rails

Robbed these from the Fujimi SH-3H kit.

Main rotor

Painted the main rotor.  Just sprayed it matt black and painted the hub and bits with Revell's "steel" acrylic paint.  I've seen that some people paint the spines of each blade "steel" but I've also seen photographs where the blades are just plain black all over so I haven't bothered painting the spines.  Looks a bit odd though, I keep wanting to put a yellow stripe on the end of each blade, but I'm not sure if HH-3E/CH-3E blades had those one?

Only thing left to do on the rotors is to paint the disc on the top, I need to order the paints for the SEA camo scheme in order to do that though.

Pitot tubes

Robbed these from the Fujimi kit also.  They keep getting shorter though, because I keep breaking them off.  Grrrr.  I'm all thumbs it seems these days.

Refuel probe

I cut the refueling probe off and reattached it using magnets, it's worked well.  Need to do some sanding on it though, as it still has the mould seam along it's length...

Tail rotor

Painted the tail rotor.  It's OK but I think it could have been better.  I had to eyeball it because even using a jig (thanks to the guy who suggested that btw) I couldn't manage to get the stripes masked off in a reasonable fashion, so I eyeballed the masking.

I also need to work on my painting as well because I seem to put the paint on too thick and end up with a ridge where the masking tape has been.

Winch

Another part robbed from the Fujimi kit.

I will probably regret attaching that when it comes to masking off for painting the SEA camo pattern but I figured it needs painting the same colour as the camo in that particular area (green or tan) so it's probably better to attach it now rather than have to glue it on after I've painted the camo.  It was a little fiddly though as it didn't want to hold in place to begin with...

You can also see in this pic and one of two of the others where I've used Mr Surfacer 1000 to fill/smooth out the scratches/sanding/griding marks/gaps I had on that area of the fuselage.  I think I went a bit too far around the engine intake part though because the curve that is clearly defined in the original plastic just behind it doesn't quite show where the gap where the join was.

I'm also not entirely happy about where I put the plasticard surround around the hole where the door was to cover up my overzealous and uneven dremel work.  It shows more than I thought it would.  Hopefully once it's painted with the camo pattern all over the fuselage it won't be so noticeable - if I sand it down any further there won't be anything left of it...

I'm also still filling a few gaps (mostly the seam to try to lessen the gap, which is actually working reasonably well in my opinion) but I'm almost at the stage where I can start doing the camo scheme.

I shall probably spray it with primer in the next week or so, but after that I'll probably have to put this project on hold for a while because I need to get the air compressor I've got my eye on so I can use my  airbrush for the camo scheme (I'm going to use the old blu/white tack method) and it's likely to take me a while to save up for the compressor.

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: back country of SO-CAL, at the birth place of Naval Aviation
Posted by DUSTER on Tuesday, September 3, 2013 5:57 PM

You're doing fine. no model is perfect. But as you build each one, the lessons you learned from before will make next one better.

Keep on modeling! , it makes you both handsome and smart 

Steve

Building the perfect model---just not quite yet  Confused

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Sunday, October 27, 2013 11:24 AM

So, got my airbrush out today and started to paint this model.

I've been trying to find Vallejo Model Air colours that match the FS numbers used in the SEA camo scheme and I've been unsuccessful - The colours Vallejo state just seem plain wrong (grey for what should look like a white underside, 2 greens that don't contrast well and a tan that looks almost orange!!).  So I've gone with what I think will look good rather than be accurate, and even then I've had to mix my own version of what I think FS30219 looks like based on what I've seen in photos...

So far so good, spent about 5hrs from 09:00 to 14:00ish putting on Vallejo Model Colour "off-white" as a base coat (to be left showing for the underside).  Took me that long because I was having problems with getting it through my airbrush until I thinned it down considerably - I forgot it's not one of the "model air" range.

And of course it required multiple layers as I was doing it over the green plastic of the model so I had to wait for each layer to dry.  Probably should have primed the plastic first with a white primer...

Then I masked off the underside using the blutack method (and lots of tamiya tape between the blutack) and mixed up a sandy/tan colour for the base layer of the SEA camouflage scheme out of a mix of Vallejo model air #26 US Flat Brown and #28 Sand Yellow.  Haven't got a clue on the ratio as I just poured in the #28 Sand Yellow into the #26 US Flat Brown until I had a colour I was happy with.  I mixed up far too much of it though, but it's better than not mixing enough and it's now being stored in the spare jar that came with my Badger 250, so if I need it again hopefully it'll be there.

Not sure how it's turned out with regards to the masking by blutack, and I won't find out until I have done all the colours because I don't want to remove the blutack/tamiya tape in case I overspray onto an area I've already painted.

Seems to have come out nicely as far as the colour goes though, it's kind of sandy but also a little on the tan side, kind of biscuit like.  It's not as dark as Vallejo Tan Earth or Vallejo US Flat Brown (model air #'s 79 and 26), but looking at pics of actual HH-3E/CH-3E neither of those 2 seemed to match the sandy/tan colour.

Now I'm at the hard stage though - masking off the areas for the 2 green colours of the SEA camo scheme.  Should be "fun", I have plenty of blutack but very little tamiya tape to fill in the middle of each area I want to keep unpainted (i.e. the sandy base colour to begin with and then both the sandy base colour and the gunship green).  Just hope I can achieve some sort of approximation of the curves in the green areas...

For the 2 greens I've settled on Vallejo Model Air Gunship Green for FS34102 and Vallejo Model Air US Dark Green for FS34079, they should hopefully both contrast rather well.

Sadly I can't post any pics of current progress due to my BlackBerry dying on me last Tuesday - my BlackBerry was my only camera that was worth taking photos of models with.  I'm hoping to buy a new phone soon though (a HTC Explorer) so hopefully I'll be able to post pics of the finished camo scheme.

  • Member since
    October 2013
Posted by infofrog on Sunday, October 27, 2013 8:01 PM

That is looking great . A lot of work you are doing . i will be watching

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:45 AM

Having talked about the airbrushing the SEA camo scheme a few weeks ago I actually got around to doing it, but I've been lacking a camera, so I couldn't show off my "handy work"...

..Finally got a new mobile to replace my broken BlackBerry but the camera doesn't appear to be as good, so apologies in advance for the even poorer than my usual poor standard pictures.  Bad light today probably didn't help either...

I hope to get a much better proper digital camera (Canon Powershot A810 or similar) in the new year, so I might be able to post slightly better quality pics...

Here's what the progress looks like so far -

As you can see from the last pic the scratches on the rear door are no longer visible (or anywhere else either), that's all down to 1000grit wet/dry paper and Mr Surfacer 1000.  Marvelous stuff.

Yes my seam filling is still bad, I tried to fill the seam on the top but it hasn't worked out well, and I gave up on the yawning canyon on the underside.  Also you can't see it in the pics, because I didn't take a photo of it on purpose, but I used a permanant marker to show me where the hull needed the gap filling on the underside so I knew where to layer up Mr Surfacer when the 2 halves are apart...

...Unfortunately it shows through the white paint, and short of layering up tons of layers of white I'm not sure I can get rid of it, unless I sand down that area and respray it...

I tried to achieve a SEA camo with colours similar to this pic (which I've posted before and I'm sure most have seen it before) -

Masking wasn't quite as difficult as I thought, but I ended up using a ton of blutack to mask the areas because I ran out of tamiya tape.  Probably the better option though.  My "sausages" probably could have been a bit better though, and I had a hell of a time getting the shapes to any sort of "accurate" look.

I used the official diagram of the SEA Camo that I've found posted in someone else's topic somewhere around here as a reference when placing the blutack for how to get the shapes of each colour to look right.

Also I got quite a few areas where I oversprayed into gaps between blutack lumps and so had to go over those again without the masking on (because I didn't see them until I removed the masking), that actually turned out quite well though, it wasn't as hard to re-airbrush the spots as I thought it would be.

However I'm not overly enthusiastic about the 2 greens I used. 

They will have to do though because I don't have a fortune to keep buying paints and I doubt I could get a decent match using Vallejo Model Air colours anyway, and as I was having a few issues getting even that brand of paint through my airbrush at times I doubt I'd do any better with Humbrol or Revell or any other brand, so I'll settle on it as it is.

Still need to do the camo on the drop tanks but after that I'm pretty much left with detailing to do.

Bad news is I need to fix 2 blades back onto the rotors...

...I don't know what it is at the moment but I seem to have a habit of breaking fragile parts, and the rotors on this bird are quite fragile at where they join to the hub.  I may look at pinning them on, although I think they're too thin for me to do that, and I'll probably end up blobbing CA on each end where the break is and hoping for the best result once it's set...

Not a bad paint job for my very first attempt at airbrushing a camo scheme onto a model, in terms of how it turned out, putting aside the rather non-accurate colours, I'm very happy with it (apart from the aforementioned problem with the marker pen showing through the white underside).

  • Member since
    October 2013
Posted by infofrog on Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:46 AM

I really like . Great job

Rick G

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