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Making a heli float...

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  • Member since
    February 2013
Making a heli float...
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 4:43 PM

Hello

Just a quick thought I had whilst I gather bits and pieces to do and continue for when the weather is more appropriate here in my part of the UK for painting/model assembly...

As I've mentioned before in my topics/posts I have an Academy 1/35 Bell 47 HTL-4 USCG in progress.

That particular variant in real life had, what I assume are rubber. floats for landing on water.

Would it be at all possible to make proper floats that actually work in/on water for the model (plus about 60g extra in weight for some extra mechanical parts I'll be putting in)?

TIA for any ideas on doing this.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:24 AM

Try making some styrofoam floats to test for weight and balance,  

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:32 PM

Thanks Mel.  I think they might just be out of scale though if I do it that way, although I'm guessing that'll be the case with all methods of making floats I could try.  Worth a go though, I'll see if can get my hands on some cheap styrofoam (any particular type you'd recommend?) and something to cut it neatly with.

Probably another silly question but is there a way I can calculate how large the floats would have to be before I even start cutting up styrofoam?  I've read the old "stick it in a tub of water and see how much is displaced" theory, but that still doesn't really tell me how large to make the floats (or at least if it does I don't understand)?

  • Member since
    June 2013
Posted by RobGroot4 on Monday, January 27, 2014 8:56 PM

If you need something stronger than styrofoam, try balsa wrapped in plastic of some sort to keep it from getting water-logged.  If you can find a way to attach them, balloons (especially with Helium) might look fairly realistic while providing buoyancy.

Groot

"Firing flares while dumping fuel may ruin your day" SH-60B NATOPS

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Monday, January 27, 2014 9:51 PM

I may have a 1/48th kit that has the floats in it.  I could measure them and maybe calculate some demenisions of the floats for 1/35.   Maybe "Goolge" Bell 47 floats!

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 11:05 PM

Hey, I just happen to know some basic buoyancy math (an occupational necessity).

A cubic foot of volume displaces 63.2 pounds (63 in filtered/purified water like pool water; 65 in average seawater).  There are 1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot.  My calculator suggests that is 0.036#/cubic inch (or a bit more than 1/2 ounce.)

Now, boting obtuse maths aside, on to practical application.

Let us presume the 1/32 helo weighs an even pound.  To support 1 pound in fresh water requires 1/63 cubic feet.  Or, 1/126 c.f. in two floats each.  1/126 * 1728 = 13.75 cubic inches.

Let's call a prototype pontoon 4" in diameter, call that 12/8  to scale.  Radius, thus, is 0.75.  So, πR² gives us π0.75² or 1.76715"  Dividing into our target is 13.75 ÷ 1.76715 = 7.78089 inches long.

Which is just short of 21' scale feet long--not terrible.

Except. we want the pontoons to not be submerged fully, we probably want them at least 50% out of the water.  Sadly, that means doubling the dimensions, and 8' pontoons 43' long are not going to be any sort of scale.

This leaves us a problem.  The easy answer would be to put the helo on a diet.  A 1/2 lb. helo would sit on 50% submerged pontoons at our 4' x 21' scale pontoon.

Which is predicated upon the pontoons not adding much weight, and no additional nose weight being needed to prevent tail-sitting.

I'd be inclined to draw-moulding the pontoons from thin plastic sheet.  For a flying model, I'd take the couple ounces of weight penalty to fill the pontoons with Low Expansion foam, too  If I were going foam only, I'd recommend the "pink" stuff, the high-density closed-cell sheets.  Closed cell means not taking on water, the high density means inherent strength (it's designed to have concrete poured over it).

But, that's just my 2¢; others' differ.

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: UK
Posted by Jon_a_its on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:21 AM

What an Explaination.... very usefull 

Indifferent   My head hurts... I'll go lie down now....

East Mids Model Club 32nd Annual Show 2nd April 2023

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: UK
Posted by Jon_a_its on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:47 AM

Review below: 

http://www.modellversium.de/galerie/1-hubschrauber/4098-bell-htl-4-academy.html 

If you have the float version, you could use the the measurements and parts to pattern 1:1 replacements.

If these are not large enough make them longer towards the rear to balance tail-sitting propensities, and slightly wider.

Alternatively find one of those micro-pee-wee helis (with floats) and mash it up? 

 Good luck, I'll be following 

East Mids Model Club 32nd Annual Show 2nd April 2023

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    February 2013
Posted by Raven Morpheus on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:21 PM

Yeah my head hurts now also, I'll try to get my head around that explanation later, after I've had a few cups of coffee (maths has never been my strongest subject anyway)...

That link to mdellversium.de (German version of scalerotors.com as far as I know) shows the exact version of the heli I have BTW, although mine is currently painted using the remnants of a spray can of Humbrol #155 OD (the instructions state some were still painted OD due to being ex military birds).  Still need to finish detail painting the cockpit, the engine, the rotors, and assemble/paint the pilot though.

I don't think 1:1 replacements would be sufficient however as I'm putting ~45g extra weight in the form of some mechanical parts (in place of where the model kit engine sits) into the helicopter, so the overall weight will end up being ~60g.

No worries though, as I now have a formula to work from, courtesy of CapnMac82 (many thanks Yes ), I can make some the correct size, albeit a bit oversized.

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Canada
Posted by sharkbait on Thursday, January 30, 2014 9:01 PM

just a thought: cigar tubes


You have never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3!

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Canada
Posted by sharkbait on Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:47 PM

Just FYI the mounting kits are  47-350-009-19 for  47G and G2 - Bell Service Instruction SI 200 and 47-706-661-5 for G2A , G3, G4 series and G5 series. Bell Service Instruction SI 358 . If you are near a Bell helicopter  service centre perhaps, if they still have 47 books around, some kind soul could photo copy the relevant pages of the  illustrated parts catalogue  or the service instruction if you are looking at scratch building.

You have never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3!

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Friday, January 31, 2014 10:43 AM

you can waterproof balsa with 5 minute epoxy thinned with denatured alcohol, brush on let dry and lightly sand. A second light thinned coat will produce a smooth surface. Light sanding to knock off the gloss then paint.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

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