black Hawk Down dio

Cader28,

ANYTHING'S POSSIBLE!!!!

Pilots could be stolen from another kit, or there may be some resin figures out there. Another option would be to repose a figure.

Motorization, I guess it would depend on how much space there is to hide a motor and related stuff.

The bit about supporting a 35th Blackhawk ... if you're keeping it in scale, acrylic would be WAY too brittle/weak to support such a large model. Wire may be the way to go, but you'd have to use VERY hard/stiff stuff (can you say tensile strength? ) and the length would have to be as short as possible to minimize swaying.

A bird kit, in 1/35? If you're looking for a model of a real bird, I believe Tamiya had a Farm Animals set in 35th, dunno if it's still in production or not. Anyhoo, I think it included a bird or two.

Fade to Black...

you could try one of those old battery powered motors that came in tank kits, don't know if they'ld be strong emough to swing rotor blades and tail rotor love to see it work if you can accomplish it

For the motor.. I know that Robbe has some slimline electric motors to power gliders and electric ducted fans.. Hey, maybe you can do away with the wire to support it! :D

Isn´t there a 1/35th scale OH-6 by Dragon? I´m sure you can scratchbuild the 'running boards' quite easily. They seem pretty straight forward to me.

Thanks all. And to Blackwolf, i meant AH-6 Little Bird, not the actual animal.

Cader,

Dragon/DML has a series of OH/AH/MH-6 kits out. I believe they're out of production, but Italeri has the OH-6 (same kit) out currently. I don't know if there are any plans for them to issue the AH-6 kit under the Italeri banner.

LOL! Oh well!

If you're looking for a Dragon kit and have a hard time finding one, my local shop has at least one and will do mail order. Lemmee know!

Fade to Black...

Another question: when fastroping, do soldiers go out both sides of a hawk? or just the one?
and does the academy kit provide options for fastroping?

I was building this exact dio myself untill the size of the base got too big for what I wanted to do.

The fact that the helo has to be up so high, as mentioned before creates a problem keeping it from drooping forward or backwards.

I finally decided to make mine with all the soldiers sitting in the helo just before lift off.

The pilot figures came from a Dragon/DML kit, and the soldiers were pieced together and reworked from a ton of different figure kits. Amo boxes, fast ropes, and many other details are made from scratch.



My brother a capenter is making me a nice base for it under glass.

I'm still working on it but will post pictures on my web site later this weekend to show you what I have so far.

Chris

www.racedaymodels.com

GreatModels was advertising a couple of sets of aircrew for Blackhawks not long ago. They're still in the inventory. Check it out! - Ed

Back again. GreatModels has 4 sets of CzechMaster 1/35 Blackhawk aircrew figures. Didn't remember to note prices, but all are in stock now. -Ed

OK, some many things to share soooo little space..... I've been working in the same diorama for about 3 years so I have gain quite a bit of experience on it (mostly by horrible accidents )
Dragon makes a "nightstalkers" little bird kit that it's pretty good, the kit number is 3527, the pilots both for the hawks and the little bird I got from a Dragon set of nam pilots, I did a few little adjustments with putty to make them look like modern pilots but overall they are great, plus the kit has gunners as well, I motorized one of the choppers but to be honest it was too much of a pain in the rear, specially because if by any chance the rotor or anything gets out of balance it can get ugly, the fast rope is deployed from both sides by a special attachment, you can find some good information in the army website: www.army.mil, go to the publications area, go to the library, search for the infantry manuals, go to the one about rapelling and you'll find a lot of information about fastroping..... if you need any more information just let me know..... I have tons of it

Just a brief note to add to the good info already listed. If you can find the AH-6J kit (there are still a lot of the DML kits in hobby stores), you can buy the Cobra Company conversion kit if you want the MH-6J MELB (Mission Enhanced Little Bird). This is the version that has the light weight plank system for transport of troopers on the outside of the aircraft but remember, the stock AH-6J was also used and is still used today by the 160th SAR. Good modeling and send pics!
Paul

The question was asked if both fast ropes are used at the same time. YES, they are used at the same time when a full load of troops are on board and they need to infiltrate ASAP. In order to have plenty of strenght for the supporting fast rope metal is the only way to go. I would not stop the metal rod "fast rope" at the point of contact with the Blackhawk fold out fast rope connectors. Make it part of the fold out fast rope connectors. They run right across the inside of the cabins roof. As far as motors, Linberg models were famous for their motorized engines, Tamiya has put out a 1/48 scale Lancaster with motorized engines. I have seen on EBAY small electric motors that could work. It will all depend on how small of an engine you can get is all. If you want to do it a little more complicated put the motor behind the crew department in the large open area and create a gear/belt system to run above the cabins roof to the main rotor shaft. Go for the DML Little birds. They are great when all built.
Tally ho and good luck
Rosie

I saw a shot today of fastroping out of a Blackhawk and they had FOUR ropes out, that would make it much sturdier.
If you can't position the motor exactly under the rotor shaft you can use a peice of rubber hose that is tight on the shaft to make a cheap "u-joint" and drive the rotor from a 90 deg. angle.

Try using pager motors. They're small, oscillate like crazy, and fit into awfully small places. Got a friend who is motorizing an Academy B-50 with four of the little suckers. He's also motorized an old Matchbox Chinook kit in 1/72 with modest success-looks pretty good and works well. - Ed

All good suggestions. Does the stock kit come with the fast rope parts? the pictures on Academy's website showed only 1. If anybody has built the kit, could you please tell me how those parts attach to the airframe. As to the problem of balancing the chopper, I was thinking of bending the grounded end of the wire into 'slack'. if I extended the loop far enough to the aft of the hawk, would that alleviate the problem?

cader28:

Pager motors: these would work just remove the counter weights from the shart to stop them from vibrating, your building a helo not a Harley.

Balance: as I previously posted I saw one with FOUR ropes out which solves the balance problem.

Yeah. i actually ran across an FSM article about motrizing aircraft. They used pager motors too. However, the helos in Black Hawk Down used only two fastropes, but i think i mgiht have figured out the balance problems. Instead of two individual ropes, i'll use one long length of wire. Run it up through the rope attachement points, into the roof, and back throught the tail boom, then out the other side.

Here's the dope on fastroping. A bud of mine (who's been through air assault school) says that TWO ropes are used for 4 persons or less, for anything more than 4 men FOUR ropes are used. Now the question is, do you want it "hollywood" or correct?

Gotta say hollywood. when i was reading the book, it seemd to me by the way they talked that only two ropes were used. Perhaps the techniques have changed?

Another thing that might help with balance would be to put a peice of fishing line from the tait down through the base of the diorama. I don't know if it would be sufficiently "invisible" but it might work.

Like I mentioned before go to the army website, then go to reference, and search for a manual about rapelling, in there there's a whole charpter dedicated to fastroping, and it also shows a very good drawing of the fast roping attachment, and every single detail about fastroping from a blackhawk, now, Academy's blackhawk does not have the fastrope attachment, it only has a wench which is not used during fastroping so you'll have to buil the fastroping attachment...

The support in the ropes (especially if you use four ropes) would provide the most stability. Somewhere I remember someone used some "smoke" in the form of cotton batting to hide some support for a model once. At first I thought; the Somalis were onto the raid and were burning tires to create confusion and cover. Thought that would work but then remembered the rotar wash would disperse it.
Could you cheat a little and just make contact with a corner of a building and run a rod into a tail wheel or skid from a building? This would provide support and might be hidden by "perspective" or the "drama" of the scene. Although I suppose if you were willing to cheat a little you would use 4 ropes rather than 2.
I suppose another possibility would be to build it as a shadow box with a bright light overhead. Then you could just run a support rod from the back of the box to the helicopters. It would certainly be different but might provide some nice "find Waldo" opportunities with the diorama.

Mike

you could do two one each side http://www.pbase.com/image/8246923
http://www.pbase.com/image/7612727
check out this site for some piccys http://www.militaryphotos.net/
im sure there was four ropes on the blackhawks in somalia two each side
it was on the documentrys

Fellows....rode on quite a few MH-60s and I only remember their being a single bar across the roof supporting only 2 ropes, one on each side. Maybe 4 rope is a new mod? I would like to see pictures?

If you are doing a Hawk fast roping at one of the blocking points by the hotel, I would run a dowel out of a building behind it, providing support, and hidden by view ;)

Military modelcraft magazine had an article in which the author scratchbuilt the rope attachments (with instructions and photos) for the Academy 1/35 scale Pave Hawk. As soon as I locate it I can give you the issue info (date/issue number).

Hi ev'ryone!

I wanted to make a BH down Diorama too but then I changed my mind and transposed it into Afghanistan. (By the way can anyone help me with the Air Force Desert Camoflage?)

For the fast rope, I plan to use a thin steel bar and to cover it with a shoestring, in order to obtain two ropes (one on each door).
For the balance I was thinking of small lead weights.

Anyhow I found a lot of detailed pics on the net: just typed mh-60, blackhawk, etc. in google.

I bought the Czech Masterkits Crew and i had a lot of work to do since they are standard Army Air Crew and not Nightstalkers Crew.
Maybe you should take a look at eduard's photoetched kit for Academy's UH-60.

See you!

Depending on how long you want the rotors to spin, a really cheap, easy and light way would be to do something with rubber bands like in those rubber band-powered airplanes. but if you want it to spin for more than a minute, a motor would probably work. And are you thinking of motorizing both rotors?

QUOTE: Originally posted by cader28 ...does the academy kit provide options for fastroping?

The following link will take you to "Ted's Corner", the website of a British modeler - specifically to the pages detailing his review and build of Academy's MH-60G. There you will find a description and pictures of his scratchbuilt fastrope attachment points on the inside of the cabin roof.

His build quality is awesome, and he's seriously detailed the model. I'm sure all of you will appreciate it.