Nightstalkers Gone Gray ....

Yep, the article in Combat Aircraft is fantastic! Shows pretty much the entire Army Aviation order of battle as it presently stands. Just a little frustrating cuz it shows the unit I'm going to as having Apaches when they don't yet!

As for that grey, is that Light Ghost Grey? Looks too light to be Gunship Grey.

I saw that gray Nightstakers pic a while back and I've been snooping around here and elsewhere trying to find the answer to that very question. So far ... nadda. My MH-47, DAP and Little Bird (whenever the @%$!*! thing is re-issued) will remain black, but my Kilo will likely end up in this gray color

If I had to guess, I'd say it looks closer to a Dark Ghost Gray, Neutral Gray or a Dark Gull Gray-type. It could be a custom mix even. I think they look almost like Gunship Gray due to the lighting thanks to typical east Tennessee mid-summer, hazy-high-overcast skies (under direct lighting there should be a crisp, direct cast shadow on the Chinook's blades and rescue hoist, but here those shadows are diffused.)

Does anyone know what color the Army paints it's RC-12s? This color doesn't look to far off from that gray.

Trigger,

Bingo! I think you hit it dead on, that is RC-12 grey!

Great, so what grey is the RC-12 painted?
Looks like Dark Gull Grey to me. FYI, Operation Prime Chance Velcro Hawks were painted Light Ghost Grey, just like their Navy counterparts.
I'm probably stating the obvious here, but the bumble bee-striped Blackhawks posted by Gino and Albert, are painted like that to let the troops along the DMZ (including the North Koreans) know that these are med-evac helicopters and not an air assualt force. Wonder if that works or not...

Hmmm... do the NoKos care about the Geneva convention? Dunno... I've got a few shots of 2ID medevac birds that Bob Roebuck (he sometimes posts on this forum) sent to me. Some really nice stuff. I think I'm going to do my Academy bird in those colors just to be different.

QUOTE: Originally posted by adrake2 Great, so what grey is the RC-12 painted? Looks like Dark Gull Grey to me. FYI, Operation Prime Chance Velcro Hawks were painted Light Ghost Grey, just like their Navy counterparts. I'm probably stating the obvious here, but the bumble bee-striped Blackhawks posted by Gino and Albert, are painted like that to let the troops along the DMZ (including the North Koreans) know that these are med-evac helicopters and not an air assualt force. Wonder if that works or not...

Well, I was kinda hoping someone out there knew the answer to that question!

Thanks Grant.
As to the NoKos obeying the Geneva Convention, I'm not sure... I just wouldn't want to find out personally.

Late last year I saw an MH-47 flying around my local airport (KCON, Concord, NH) and being an old Chinook guy, I had to get closer. It spent an inordinate amount of time (1+ hrs?) just hovering over one spot on the airfield before they flew back to the old National Guard ramp and shut down for lunch.

On closer inspection, the aircraft was grey, not IR Green or IR Black. Yikes! The tail # matched up to the prototype MH-47E. I snapped some pictures (they're on my machine at home, I'm at work), but I can throw them up on the web someplace and link 'em tonight if anybody is interested.. :)

QUOTE: Originally posted by dninness if anybody is interested.. :)

WOOOOHOOOO, that'd be me!!!

QUOTE: Originally posted by dninness Late last year I saw an MH-47 flying around my local airport (KCON, Concord, NH) and being an old Chinook guy, I had to get closer. It spent an inordinate amount of time (1+ hrs?) just hovering over one spot on the airfield before they flew back to the old National Guard ramp and shut down for lunch. On closer inspection, the aircraft was grey, not IR Green or IR Black. Yikes! The tail # matched up to the prototype MH-47E. I snapped some pictures (they're on my machine at home, I'm at work), but I can throw them up on the web someplace and link 'em tonight if anybody is interested.. :)

Please post them, I'm very interested.

Cheers,
Albert

QUOTE: Please post them, I'm very interested.

QUOTE: Please post them, I'm very interested.

OK, guys, here they are. I apologize for the lack of photographic clarity, this was with my crappy old digital camera last year. These were all taken on 2 Nov 03 at KCON. The aircraft in question is 88-00267, the very first MH-47E, for you aircraft spotter types.

http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05503.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05504.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05505.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05506.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05508.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05509.jpg

That's pretty much the best ones I have. Let me know if you have any questions.

Darin
Six turnin', two burnin', five gridin' and four prayin'

WOW! Great pix! Thanks for sharing!

Excellent!

Definitely looks closer to Gunship Grey in those pics.

Thanks Darin, you da' man!

Cheers,
Albert [:-)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cobrahistorian Trigger, Bingo! I think you hit it dead on, that is RC-12 grey!

Thanks. I'm still trying to find out the FS Number for those and I've asked that question in the a/c forum. Here's a decent pic of an RC-12: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/556920/M/ It looks more like a faded Dark Ghost Gray to me (I'm comparing it to the top of this weathered EF-18 http://www.airliners.net/open.file/553000/M/). We had some RC-12s from Hunter AAF retreat from Hurricane Floyd to here a few years back and I recall they looked like Dark Ghost Gray.

Now, I say that not to argue with Adrake2 - if he says MH-60As were Light Ghost Gray to blend in with Seahawks, I believe him. Maybe today's are Light Ghost Gray - remember how in 1991 F-15s in the Ghost scheme started to appear darker because they switched paint manufacturers? It's been 15 years between Prime Chance and these gray Chinooks and Kilos so who knows where they're getting their paint from. Maybe today the idea is the same, but the colors have changed (Again I cite the F-15 with the switch from Ghost to Mod Eagle schemes).

With weathering and photo conditions, trying to figure out todays grays can be tricky. It's like trying to figure out the colors of a Raptor - everyone had a different opinion until we heard from the Tyndall paint shop and Lockheed Martin and got FS numbers.

The Prime Chance MH-60As were considerably lighter in color than this current shade of grey. The SH-60 Seahawks at the time wore a three-tone grey TPS (tactical paint scheme). This scheme fades during the cruise into basically a overall light ghost grey. The Velcro Hawks appear to be very close in color to the Navy Seahawks, thus my opinion that the OPS hawks were painted light ghost grey.

These pics of the current grey Nightstalkers appear to be much darker and bluer than light ghost grey. To me, it looks darker than dark ghost grey but lighter than gunship grey.

Maybe this current scheme is meant for daylight operations instead of blending in with their Navy counterparts.

QUOTE: Originally posted by adrake2 The Prime Chance MH-60As were considerably lighter in color than this current shade of grey. The SH-60 Seahawks at the time wore a three-tone grey TPS (tactical paint scheme). This scheme fades during the cruise into basically a overall light ghost grey. The Velcro Hawks appear to be very close in color to the Navy Seahawks, thus my opinion that the OPS hawks were painted light ghost grey. These pics of the current grey Nightstalkers appear to be much darker and bluer than light ghost grey. To me, it looks darker than dark ghost grey but lighter than gunship grey. Maybe this current scheme is meant for daylight operations instead of blending in with their Navy counterparts.

I thought that at first too. Then you made a great point with your Prime Chance reference. Also, as it turns out - black is not the best color for camouflage at night. It could be for any of those reasons, could be all, could be none (yeah, THAT was helpful ) So far we've only seen this new gray on one MH-47E and one MH-60K last year. It's possible that this might be a test scheme.

I still lean to a Dark Ghost Gray (or something very similar). I agree it looks darker, but there might be a reason for that. In the original airliners.net pic of the Chinook and Kilo, even though it was taken during the middle of the day, the sky is a typical hazy East Tennessee summer overcast, at least between the sun and the airport. There should be sharp shadows under the rescue hoist and blades, but those shadows are diffused. It's still a bright shot so it's probably a high or thin overcast. I think that the lighting is darker than we think. That second Seahawk pic in the desert looks "darker" than the one on the left for the same reasons. But you're right, it's definately not Gunship Gray. It'll sometimes fade to that value, but you usually see a lot of weathering on it by that point. These paint jobs don't look too old.

That's (For whatever that's worth...)

BTW -Aaron, you know more about Seahawks than me. I'm putting together drawings of different Hawk schemes and any info you'd be willing to share would be real helpful.

QUOTE: Originally posted by dninness Late last year I saw an MH-47 flying around my local airport (KCON, Concord, NH) and being an old Chinook guy, I had to get closer. It spent an inordinate amount of time (1+ hrs?) just hovering over one spot on the airfield before they flew back to the old National Guard ramp and shut down for lunch. On closer inspection, the aircraft was grey, not IR Green or IR Black. Yikes! The tail # matched up to the prototype MH-47E. I snapped some pictures (they're on my machine at home, I'm at work), but I can throw them up on the web someplace and link 'em tonight if anybody is interested.. :)

D'OH! Where are my manners!


Welcome to the forums Darin!

Welcome to the FSM forums, Darin, and thank you very much for the pics.

Trigger, any info you need, I'd be glad to help.
The Seahawk in the top photo is a SH-60B variant while the bottom photo is a HH-60H. Both wear the same paint scheme, but the -60B looks like it's been on cruise for awhile (though it could be the light conditions as well).