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Apache paint

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  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Georgia
Apache paint
Posted by Screaminhelo on Friday, November 5, 2004 3:51 AM
Keep your eyes open, there may be new colors on Apaches coming. The Army has been considering changing colors on rotary wing aircraft and I know that it has been tried out. I hate too tease, but I can't post pics right now, I need to get permission on these first. I think that y'all will like the looks when you see them.

Keep the dirty side down sir!!!,
Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Friday, November 5, 2004 8:40 AM
SWEET!!!

The standard paint job is a little... um... well... drab.
"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
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  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Friday, November 5, 2004 11:35 AM
Interesting, will wait for pic's, you say Army wide on all helo's
John
helicopters don't fly the beat the air into submission
  • Member since
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  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Sunday, November 7, 2004 1:20 AM
Ther rumor is that all Army has finally learned something that the Marines learned a long time ago, green sticks out like a sore thumb in any environment other that from a hide position in temperate forests, and all Army helos will get rid of the wonderful green paint. Only time will tell what the final outcome will be, but these Apaches are much harder to see when they aren't green.

No...Your other right sir!
Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Sunday, November 7, 2004 8:43 AM
I'm liking the sound of this more and more! Anything that'll make it more difficult for an RPG to hit my tail rotor is OK in my book!
"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
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  • From: Tip O' da Mitt (Northern Michigan)
Posted by albymoore on Sunday, November 7, 2004 10:21 AM
Stop teasing, show us pics!!!! Dead [xx(] Big Smile [:D]

Cheers,
Albert Clown [:o)]

"I know what it wants now...the void has swallowed the light and the machine wants my soul"

  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 7, 2004 6:37 PM
But i guess they'll keep the green for operations set in jungles and forests eh? it's probably gonna be a different colour fo desert operations and such. can't wait to see!!
  • Member since
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  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, November 7, 2004 9:43 PM
Some shade of gray like their fixed wing aircraft?
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission
  • Member since
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  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Monday, November 8, 2004 6:53 AM
Think gray. The shade used by the Marines is effective against widest variety of backgrounds compared to other finishes.

No sir. That's NOT the H.
Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Monday, November 8, 2004 7:41 AM
I figured something like that'd be happening soon. Makes sense.
"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
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  • From: Tip O' da Mitt (Northern Michigan)
Posted by albymoore on Monday, November 8, 2004 4:18 PM
I wonder if these two are any indication of what's to come;

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/370097/L/

Cheers,
Albert Clown [:o)]

"I know what it wants now...the void has swallowed the light and the machine wants my soul"

  • Member since
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  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, November 8, 2004 5:53 PM
Albert
Most likely, but don't expect them all to be done overnight. this will be the thrid time I've seen the Army change colors. Will take several years for them all to be repainted.
John
helicopters don't fly, the beat the air into submission
  • Member since
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  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Tuesday, November 9, 2004 3:51 AM
Hey Albert
That is probably more likely than the ones I saw recently. What Spec Ops does first is often what the Army adopts 5-10 years later. I would expect it to take at least 8 years for the Army to paint everything if/when they make a decision to do so.

Just to let everyone else know, it will be a couple of weeks before I can post any pics. When these guys have been established for a while the bad guys will allready know them. The unit has asked that we hold on to any pictures for a while though but they do like the attention they are getting. The aircraft were painted at a Marine paint shop and use the dark over light scheme seen on some of their Cobras.

Mac
Do I have to crew for the LT?

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Tuesday, November 9, 2004 7:20 AM
Screaminhelo,

Were they painted in-country? If so, and I know I'm going out on a limb here, but would you be willing, once they've been released, to have them published? I'm putting the finishing touches on my Apaches in Afghanistan and Iraq book, and that would be a killer way to end it. Plus, a full color profile.... damn!

Drop me an email at jonathan.a.bernstein@us.army.mil

Thanks!
"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Friday, November 12, 2004 10:38 PM
I've heard some further rumblings about differently painted Apaches. Cool stuff. Can't wait to see em!
"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
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  • From: PA
Posted by JWest21 on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 5:46 PM
I was watching ABC tonight and they had some video of the operations around Mosul. The Apaches they showed looked grey, but the picture wasn't the best and it was hazy. They didn't look like OD green, but it was probably my imagination
Jason "There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." -D. Barry
  • Member since
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:31 PM
heh heh heh... perhaps not....
"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 2:55 AM
OK I saw this one and just had to reply.
First of all I would like to say that I am currently stationed in Iraq ( not much longer )
The next bunch of Apache's that are in Kuwait waiting to enter theatre, a National Guard Unit, took it upon themselves to have thier Helicopters painted the light gray, like was mentioned above. However there are some ups and downs to this paint job.
The ups; it is harder to see the aircraft during the day with this paint scheme, especially at the altitudes that the Navy and Marines are flying at, normally above 300 ft. The paint also is "cooler" so the infra red missiles have a harder time trying to track it "optically". IR Missiles, depending on thier model, have the ability to track heat, and visually using a camera. The camera has a harder time detecting the aircraft against the sky.
Now the downs;
I can tell you for a fact that the Army helicopters are not currently flying at 300 ft plus, they are at 100 ft and below, UH-60's are flying at 50ft here at around 145 knots. So at that angle the gray actually doesnt help. Also at night the gray sticks out like a sore thumb, so people on the ground are able to see it a lot easier. Especially flying at night, during the day thats a different story.
The new proposed paint job is also just a test, and no word on any permenant change in paint jobs.
Also, RPG's are not guided in anyway, thank goodness, had one shot at me 2 days ago.
However, I just have to add this one in, the biggest danger is NOT The enemy and thier missiles and RPG's, its US. Flying at fast speeds, at low altitudes, and the weather, and lack of power management in the summer months. So far, the ONLY aircraft that was lost due to enemy contact was the other day, and even then the aircraft was still salvaged. We have been our own worst enemys over here.
sorry, I tend to babble. Hope this clears up some of the questions.
Josh
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Tip O' da Mitt (Northern Michigan)
Posted by albymoore on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 6:16 AM
Wow, very interesting. Thanks for the update and for your service.

Regards,
Albert Clown [:o)]

"I know what it wants now...the void has swallowed the light and the machine wants my soul"

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Oklahoma
Posted by chopperfan on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 10:40 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by albymoore

Wow, very interesting. Thanks for the update and for your service.

Regards,
Albert Clown [:o)]


Sign - Ditto [#ditto] BUT, to reiterate, THANK YOU for your service AND sacrifices.
Sometimes I think we as Americans, and the rest of the Free World for that matter, forget why we ARE a Free Society.
Randie [C):-)]Agape Models Without them? The men on the ground would have to work a lot harder. You can help. Please keep 'em flying! http://www.airtanker.com/
  • Member since
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  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:37 PM
Josh,
I don't want to sound like I am jabbing at you, but I have been in the same piece of air as those -64's at night and it actually was rather effective, especially when there was suspended dust, more dust made it more effective. They do stick out like a sore thumb under goggles, but I don't think there are many of those out there on the other side in this one. On days when there was at least a moderate amount of suspended dust it was pretty effective, again more dust meade it more effective. On clear days there didn't seem to be any up or down, they just looked differentI do think that the paint job that those Apaches got would not be of much if any benefit to them because of the tactics, techniques and proceedures which the Army uses but I do think that the right gray scheme would be helpfull. I would prefer anything but green because that really sticks out like a sore thumb over here. Now my observations were made using a Mk1 eyeball so take them for what they are.

Most of the camoflage schemes the Army uses today were developed to be used in the European theater. Most of the Army equipment that you see over here is tan with one noteable exception...aircraft. I feel like a bullseye over here. I am sitting in a dark green helicopter that is flying in a sky that is some combination of air and sand over an often barren desert landscape with nothing more that an M60 that is as old as me to shoot back with. I am in favor of anything that lowers the contrast between me and my background and making it more difficult to judge distance and I am glad to see the Army experimenting with something else and I would not be surprised to see some sort of gray become the standard.

Sorry to jump on a soap box there. I guess I just like kicking this stuff around. To get back on the subject, I hope to be able to post a pic or two soon. Whether you think this paint job works or not, it is still kind of neat to see.

YOUR OTHER RIGHT SIR!!!!,
Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 6:35 PM
Mac
No need to apolize for being right. Color change may be long overdue. Iremember when the Army started using the present color, makes sense for Europe and the threats in the 70-80's time peroid.
Not much place to hide in the sky take anything you can to help. Take care of that 60, may have been one I used.
Stay safe and come home soon, thanks for your service.
John
helicopters don't fly, they beat the air into submission
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Thursday, November 18, 2004 2:16 AM
Josh
I saw a 53 last night. It was a pretty clear night and the gray did stick out pretty bad.

As for how the Apaches ended up gray, I have heard a few different versions of the story. One is that they asked for them to be painted that way and the other common one is that when they went to the Marine paint shop, the shop mistakenly thought that they were to be painted similar to the Cobras. Some say that the Army wanted to try it out in theater to begin with. I think that some version of one of the first two is probably right but the Army did decide that they would see how well it worked in the end. I think that the unit did get in a bit of hot water for this because of the added weight and the paint job being off schedule. No matter what though, it does make for an interesting modeling subject.

Mac
Keep the dirty side down!

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:28 AM
Mac,
I also heard that the Apache's went to thier SAO and asked for permission, then they sent them to Cherry Point, and yes I heard that they got into some hot water.
What unit are you in?? and where are you at right now?
There is no doubt that the green does stick out, for the most part though I like the green at night, full moon nights you are going to see any helicopter, but the green does help us in that matter. As far as day, yeah we stick out, no doubt about that, and that is why we fly at 50 ft and 145 knots.
Whats wrong with the M-60's...LOL
We are supposed to be getting the M-240 1's from what I hear, around the end of December, just in time to go home. How nice huh???
Josh
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Thursday, November 18, 2004 7:25 PM
hmmm well how about a 2 tone color Grey and Tan

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  • Member since
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  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:05 AM
Josh,
I'm playing both sides of the border from Kuwait. Do you remember Udairi? I have lived there for the last 9 1/2 months! I think that I would rather have mortar rounds waking me at night and have a decent chow hall.
Did you see last month's Flight Fax? Some good info on the 240's. We were told that we would get them in Jul, then Sep, then Oct. Now they say we will get them sometime, but all organic units have priority and aviation units will just get all of the spares for the 60's to keep what they have going.

As for helo colors, I am in favor of some sort of gray. Take a good look at the site posted on this thread. Some sort of medium to dark gray would work pretty well. I guess that I will just have to sit back and see what the years to come bring.

Keep the dirty side down!
Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Fukuoka Japan / Brisbane AUS.
Posted by Chris_in_Japan on Sunday, November 21, 2004 6:25 AM
Hi.. Well, I live in Japan, and the JASDF still use the Cobra's, and I must say that I love thier paint scheme.. Why not do what the Japanese have done, and then keep everyone happy.. My only suggestion would be to paint the underside "sky grey"... I have just completed a Hasegawa 1/72 version of the Japanese Cobra, and I just love it.. Shouldnt be that much harder to adapt the Apache should it?

http://www.midwaysailor2.com/misawa/misawa-154b.jpg

Chris in Japan

On the bench:

                          1/48 RAAF 3 Sqn F/A-18B

                          1/150 /1/160 N Scale Japanese Rail diorama.

  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:12 PM
"Most of the camoflage schemes the Army uses today were developed to be used in the European theater. Most of the Army equipment that you see over here is tan with one noteable exception...aircraft. I feel like a bullseye over here. I am sitting in a dark green helicopter that is flying in a sky that is some combination of air and sand over an often barren desert landscape with nothing more that an M60 that is as old as me to shoot back with."
That M-60 is as old as you... But it kept our ****** safe, whenever we needed it. Of course, war is more advanced now, and you are not trying to avoid only bullets and RPGs. And hey, the better you stand out, the more target practice you get, right?

"I just have to add this one in, the biggest danger is NOT The enemy and thier missiles and RPG's, its US. Flying at fast speeds, at low altitudes, and the weather, and lack of power management in the summer months"
I always found RPGs and bullets more dangerous... There's something scarrier about bullets smacking metal near your head, and RPG's moving past you, then flying 20 feet over the land. The only time we ever had a problem with our own error (Major problem), was in trying to avoid an RPG on take off, we smashed back to the ground and spilled some people, one of whom broke his arm I belive. But still, that was attributed to the RPG.

  • Member since
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  • From: Georgia
Posted by Screaminhelo on Monday, November 22, 2004 11:05 AM
Vietnam,
QUOTE: That M-60 is as old as you... But it kept our ****** safe, whenever we needed it.

Our weapons are holding up pretty well but the mount is essentially the same as the one used on the Huey. At 130+ kts holding that 60 out there on a 6 hr mission gets pretty tiring. We did run into some Brits that showed us a good way to deal with that and they helped us to set up a system that makes it much easier to reload in flight. I plan to include pics of these items and of an aircraft set up for a mission in a walkaround when I get home. Let me know of other items that y'all would like included so I can be sure to get pics.

By the way, if you have fond memories of the M60, you would be amazed to see the M240. Cases eject out the bottom and you can select the rate of fire from 600 to 1200 round per minute.

Now a double digit midget,
Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 22, 2004 2:25 PM
I would like to see some pictures of that. Most of the missons we flew did not require a ton of use on the M-60, so holding it was not a problem. But I do remember a couple of times having to keep it going for awhile.
What do you fly now?
Mike
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