blackhawk UH-60

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 2:52 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74

You're absolutely right. A helicopter hovering 50 over the ground... Helen Keller could tell you where it is. Now a helicopter 250 meters away running at 150 kts? You're still going to see and hear it, but if the colors can confuse or obfuscate the machine and it's orientation, and possibly cause a MANPAD or RPG shooter to pause to judge or miscalculate; every little bit helps. Camouflage isn't just about concealment, it's also about confusion.

Exactly! Camouflage for aircraft, ships and armor is really meant to obscure the fine edges and details of the vehicle. This helps to confuse the enemy, slow down identification and, hopefully, limit his chances of getting a good shot in. Trust me...you're not going to hide and M1 or an aircraft carrier using a paint scheme either! LOL

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AH1Wsnake

Member since
December 2002
From: Modeling anything with "MARINES" on the side.

Posted by AH1Wsnake on Monday, March 7, 2005 9:56 PM

Mac is right about seeing all the leaks....it's not pretty when the dust starts getting caked on there.
At the beginning stages of OIF, there were a few instances where our Cobras were called in for CAS, only to have the enemy hole up and conceal themselves when they head the infamous "whop whop whop" heading their way. In order to coax the fighters out of their positions, the FACs had to send our birds away, and then have them approach the area again from downwind to give a little more surprise. I'll miss that sound when we go to four blades........... Sigh [sigh]

"There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and those who have met them in battle. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion."

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Monday, March 7, 2005 8:11 AM

You're absolutely right. A helicopter hovering 50 over the ground... Helen Keller could tell you where it is. Now a helicopter 250 meters away running at 150 kts? You're still going to see and hear it, but if the colors can confuse or obfuscate the machine and it's orientation, and possibly cause a MANPAD or RPG shooter to pause to judge or miscalculate; every little bit helps. Camouflage isn't just about concealment, it's also about confusion.

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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Screaminhelo

Member since
April 2004
From: Georgia

Posted by Screaminhelo on Monday, March 7, 2005 5:07 AM

It is hard not to see anything flying at 50 feet and 150 kts. You can hear a helo coming from quite a distance anyway and it doesn't take too long to pinpoint direction for someone who is familiar with the sound. I just want that little bit of an edge. Besides, gray looks COOL! The only drawback that I see is you will really be able to see how much these pigs leak in gray.

Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Monday, March 7, 2005 5:01 AM

Prime Chance was in 1987/88. I know of MH-60A, Little Bird and KW being directly involved. I have not heard of Chinook participation, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen (adrake2's the expert on Prime Chance around here. Last I heard, he was building a "Velcro Hawk" from that op for the S-70 GB. They so-called "Grayhawks" were painted as such to blend in with SH-60s on decks to hide them from curious eyes when going thru the Suez and Staits of Hormuz (sp?).

The photo I'm referring to was taken in the summer of 2003 at McGee-Tyson outside of Knoxville. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/370097/L/

Also in 2003, dninness shot these pix in Concord NH:
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05503.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05504.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05505.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05506.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05508.jpg
http://www.emmasweb.com/images/DCP05509.jpg

There was a lot of speculation as to why that Chinook and Kilo were gray, ranging from it being a one-off test to another situation where they had to hide in plain site again with Navy aircraft (HH-60/CH-46?)

And after seeing the video albymoore posted of the SC ARNG Apaches, I can totally see the value of the scheme. It doesn't make the aircraft invisible (nothing at that range would), but it does mess with your ability to focus in on and judge the range and orientation of the aircraft. The Marines have been using that scheme for nearly 15 years now. I see AF and USMC C-130s here all the time and those grays do the same thing.

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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hawkwrench

Member since
March 2005
From: usa

Posted by hawkwrench on Sunday, March 6, 2005 11:44 PM

HeavyArty, The Persian Gulf operation was dubbed:Operation Prime Chance. Crews from the 160th SOAR flew MH-60's called "greyhawks". These aircraft were standard spec op MH-60 blackhawks painted wit a low vis grey.

2/82nd Aviation Battalion"When you absolutely need to be there RIGHT NOW!!!

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Sunday, March 6, 2005 11:35 PM

Jon,
May be. Would be interesting.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Cobrahistorian

Member since
December 2002
From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!

Posted by Cobrahistorian on Sunday, March 6, 2005 11:21 PM

Gino,

From what I hear, the SCARNG paint job may become standard. Whether its just wishful thinking by a few Apache drivers, or actual policy change remains to be seen, but I've heard rumblings from several different sources.

"1-6 is in hot"

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:48 PM

Grant,
Actually the gray Nightstalker birds were for an Op in '93 (can't remember the name, it was in the Pers.Gulf aginst shipping and Oil platforms or something like that) where they flew off US Navy ships and they were painted gray to blend in with the Navy birds. The gray had nothing to do with blending in with the sky. After the Op, they were repainted in flat black, per 160th SOAR SOP.

Furthermore, it is being found in theatre that it doesn't matter what color the aircraft are. Because of the low altitudes they are flying at, they can still be easily seen and heard. So there is no plan on any other color than good old Army Helo Drab. The SCANG Apaches were apparently painted gray that way at a USMC Depot and it was unauthorized. They left them that way after they were done as opposed to repainting them. Interesting color scheme though.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Trigger

Member since
February 2004
From: Moooooon River!

Posted by Trigger on Sunday, March 6, 2005 9:51 PM

A couple of Nightstalker birds were gray in 2003 (Kilo and a Chinook). And I'll bet that's why those Apaches were painted gray. Did someone in DC finally figure out that the biggest threat to our helicopters isn't the Somali, Iraqi or Afghan Air Force, but some PO'd local with too much free time and access to cheap weapons.

So who knows, maybe in 5 years Blackhawks will go gray?

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."

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Screaminhelo

Member since
April 2004
From: Georgia

Posted by Screaminhelo on Sunday, March 6, 2005 8:22 PM

Yeah Mike, it is kind of an uncomfortable feeling. The only good thing about it in the desert is that sometimes muzzle flashes make it a little easier to see the bad guys so you can shoot 'em. Desert tan really isn't much better though, it still stands out pretty well against the sky too. Why worry so much about camoflaging an aircraft to hide it when it is on the ground anyway?

Mac

Mac

I Didn't do it!!!

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Mikeym_us

Member since
March 2004
From: Kincheloe Michigan

Posted by Mikeym_us on Sunday, March 6, 2005 5:02 PM

my Academy UH-60 has in the painting instructions a UH-60A in desert paint scheme.

Yet they stay with Helo Drab green in a desert environment doesn't that say shoot me down why don't you I'm sticking out like a sore thumb.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15 http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Sunday, March 6, 2005 12:53 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mikeym_us

there were also some painted light tan for the desert areas and a good paint for that is Testors Model Master Armour Sand

Actually, there were only a couple painted in sand during Operation Desert Storm, then the Army decided it wasn't needed and painted no others. Sand is currently not an authorized paint scheme and you won't see many, if any in sand.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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Mikeym_us

Member since
March 2004
From: Kincheloe Michigan

Posted by Mikeym_us on Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:54 AM

there were also some painted light tan for the desert areas and a good paint for that is Testors Model Master Armour Sand

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15 http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

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HeavyArty

Member since
December 2002
From: Valrico, FL

Posted by HeavyArty on Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:02 AM

Leo,
Lots of us have built the Academy 1/35 Blackhawks. It is a great kit. What was Operation Good Hope? If it is a standard Army mission, they were US Army Heli Drab Green (Testors Model Master has this color), UH-60s have never been OD Green. If it was a Spec Ops mission after about mid 1990s, they were probably flat black ffrom 160 SOAR. If so, they were not regular UH-60s, but MH-60s, which have quite a few diferances from a standard UH-60.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell