Blade tips colored for combat?

Okay, here it is - an orange tipped Little Bird

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandadjohn Photo's were taken from DoD website's

All the above still applies, no telling who/how long ago/ etc. the pics were taken. Totally agree with Grant again, sorry.

Photo's were taken from DoD website's

Ah, it's the dreaded DAP pic! That last pic has caused a lot of confusion. Cold beer says that's black and it's the tint and brightness on the photo that's off. The first tip-off is in the stencils. Check out under the gunner's window - those stencils are helo drab or something similar. On aircraft finished in Helo Drab, black stencils are used. The second clue is the air intake - that lip is black on land based S-70s, yet here it looks to be the same color as the cowling behind it. Also note how both the sky and the tarmac are washed out. The contrast between the shadows of the rotors and the sirframe looks low for that kind of lighting situation. It's an awesome photo showing details, but not a great shot for a color reference (and that may have been intentional on whoever created that image in the first place - blow out the image and you can see some of the finer details)

Similar with the Kilo shot. Looks like there's a light drab stencil on the tail, but it's hard to tell from that pic. Overall that's not a great quality image as everything's blown out. I honestly can't tell what color that is. But the thing with the Kilo is, I've seen as many if not more pix of 'em in Helo Drab (HD) that in 'Nightstalker Black' (NB) so it doesn't matter.

And that's the problem with viewing pix from the web. Most of the shots we see are taken by amatuer photographers, more than likely not usig the right f-stop for the lighting situation. Or they were shot properly, but the prints have faded with time. Then those pix were scanned, resulting in another step in the degredation of the quality, Were they properly color corrected? Adjusting the levels, brightness and curves to get the best quality image? We assume they were. Then those files were saved as RGB JPEGs (causing yet more distortion in the quality and color of the image since you lose a channel of color) and end up online to be viewed by our monitors. BTW - no two monitors display an image the same way so some of us aren't crazy when we say "it looks black to me" or "it looks helo drab to me!". PLUS - how many of our monitors are correctly calibrated for color?

I ran that DAP pic thru photoshop (should have done that long ago... sorry) and here's what I got:
Original


Color Corrected


A BIG problem trying to tell the difference between HD and NB stems from the fact the finish fades and weathers pretty quickly to a dark gray with a slight green tint (no, I'm not smoking anything here). Toss in a pic that hasn't been color corrected and it turns into a riddle wrapped in a conundrum shrouded in a mystery.

So long story short - HA, Grandadajohn - you're both right.

Now if everyone will excuse me, I'm gonna go grab a brewski!

just for reference

QUOTE: However, if you're modeling a Nightstalker and you're still not sure, just follow Mick's advice and "Paint it Black!" You won't go wrong.

Totally agree with Grant here. Especially on the "Paint it Black!"...great song!

Most of the time, but not always black. As with every rule, there have been exceptions. Some MH-60Ks and MH-47s have shown up in Helo Drab. I've heard that some MH-60Ls flew in Helo Drab 10-15 years ago, but have not yet seen any photographs to support this. Salbando told me about an MH-47 he once saw with a water-based temporary sand finish on it during excersises in Nevada a few years back, and let's not forget the gray MH-47 and MH-60K that stopped off in Knoxville a couple years back.

Black:


Helo Drab:



(January 2004)

(1999)

Gray:


I would agree that the overall majority of Nightstalkers these days are black (and I think it's safe to say all the LBs are black today as well), but, we've seen green machines as recent as 1/2004. As with any subject, one needs to do as much research into the aircraft they're building as they can. However, if you're modeling a Nightstalker and you're still not sure, just follow Mick's advice and "Paint it Black!" You won't go wrong.

QUOTE: Originally posted by GeejeeZ (Having sat next to Albymoore and LemonJello for some time ) About the age old controversy Are US Army Helo's Black Or Just Very Dark Green: there has been a lengthy discussion on this at the ARC-forum as well. Interesting stuff (although I know that some (many?) on this forum are on the ARC-forum as well). I must say that, although I always was 'on the black side' of this subject, I accidently discovered that combining Revell Olive yellowish (!) green with a dull Revell Clear finish results in a colour that my wife and daughter describe as black, until they see it in bright light when a glimpse of green appears to peek through the black. Please continue, while I join LJ and Am again. Gertjan PS: none of my family members have a history of colour blindness

To clear up any confusion. Normal US Army helos are painted a very dark green called Helo Drab. They are green though. The only US Army helos that are painted black are those operated by the 160th Special Operationations Aviation Regiment (SOAR), named the Nightstalkers. All the 160th SOAR helos are painted flat black.

(Having sat next to Albymoore and LemonJello for some time )
About the age old controversy Are US Army Helo's Black Or Just Very Dark Green: there has been a lengthy discussion on this at the ARC-forum as well. Interesting stuff (although I know that some (many?) on this forum are on the ARC-forum as well).
I must say that, although I always was 'on the black side' of this subject, I accidently discovered that combining Revell Olive yellowish (!) green with a dull Revell Clear finish results in a colour that my wife and daughter describe as black, until they see it in bright light when a glimpse of green appears to peek through the black.

Please continue, while I join LJ and Am again.

Gertjan

PS: none of my family members have a history of colour blindness

I know the Marine helo blades these days are usually flat black with the occasional white stenciling to mark center of balance for changing out rotor blades (like on the CH-53Es), but nothing on the tips. Over time, like in Iraq and Afghanistan, the leading edges with wear and show the metallic base. Sand has a pretty good tendency to wear out paint.

Sorry, gotta disagree. Still think they are flat black. The markings on the flat black Littlebirds is a semi-gloss black. Against the faded (grayish) flat black, it still shows up as black. That is just how the ones I saw up close at Hunter AAF, Georgia, home of 160th SOAR, looked.

Gino
they may look black, but if you click on the bottom photo and look(have to take a close look) at the lettering on the tailboom you will see UNITED STATES ARMY in black not OD. Part of the problem with helo drab is that under some lighting conditions it does look black

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandadjohn Gino they may be black now, but they weren't always black

Yes, some of the early ones were Heli Drab green, but the above two look black to me and they haven't been green for some time.

Gino
they may be black now, but they weren't always black

QUOTE: Originally posted by LemonJello Amazing what you can learn here, isn't it? I think I'll just tip the chair back and soak up all the knowledge that gets shared. Don't mind me, I'm not sleeping, just listening.

LJ,
Mind if I pull up a chair and join you?

Amazing what you can learn here, isn't it? I think I'll just tip the chair back and soak up all the knowledge that gets shared. Don't mind me, I'm not sleeping, just listening.

Tip colors were originally a safety factor for those working around turning blades which make sense in a peace time enviornment but not in combat.

Jon's right. I've got a pic of an MH-6C and one of it's four blades has an orange tip. I'll try to get it scanned ASAP.

Yep. Blackwater flies MD530s with pointy noses. Neat birds.

Everything I've seen says that blade warning stripes were done away with right around 1990. As far as I can tell, AH-64s and AH/MH-6s never carried them. The only MH-6s that might carry them are the MH-6Cs that SOAR uses as training birds. These are original OH-6As that have been re-engined with the much more powerful Little Bird engine.

Plus they have the pointed nose.

QUOTE: Originally posted by woodley93 The MH-6. If you are painting it tactical (US Army Helo Green) then no, there will be no colored tips. If you are painting it a non tac color scheme (such as the white/ navy blue I saw in Baghdad) then you will have two white stripes at the tips. Unfortunately they never let me get close enough to measure dimensions and when I did see them up close, I was on an Observation Post and he was in the air so that was a slightly inconvinient time to do so.

MH/AH-6s in 160 SOAR are painted flat black, not helo drab. If you saw one of the white and navy blue ones, it was not US Army. Most likely was one of the Blackwater Security birds (CIA front company, kind of like Air America was in Vietnam). The Blackwater birds should have had an N number on it as well, and is not a MH-6 or AH-6, but a Hughes/ MD530 civilian version, that is why the blades have yellow/ white colored tips, still required by FAA regs for civilian aircraft.

The MH-6. If you are painting it tactical (US Army Helo Green) then no, there will be no colored tips. If you are painting it a non tac color scheme (such as the white/ navy blue I saw in Baghdad) then you will have two white stripes at the tips. Unfortunately they never let me get close enough to measure dimensions and when I did see them up close, I was on an Observation Post and he was in the air so that was a slightly inconvinient time to do so.

Last time I saw painted blade tips (T/R padels) were on some AH-1's in the 11ACR back in '91. Other than a few UH-60's at Rucker, I'm fairly sure all line birds have black blade tips.

QUOTE: Originally posted by AusLexusJapan I know that the new Eurocopter Tigres that have just entered service for the Australian Army have yellow tips, but then again, they havnt been used in combat yet, so might change.. Chris in Japan

Chris, combat or not, point is that US has gone away from them. Has nothing to do with combat. Realized they weren't really serving a purpose and it made the aircraft stick out like a sore thumb on the ground. Not too may bright orange or yellow squares in nature.

I know that the new Eurocopter Tigres that have just entered service for the Australian Army have yellow tips, but then again, they havnt been used in combat yet, so might change..

Chris in Japan

Depends on the aircraft and when you are talking about. Modern AH-6Js do not have any colored tips. Neither do UH-60s, Cobras, Apaches, or UH-1Ns, etc., etc. Vietnam era and through early 1980s(ish), practically all helos had brightly colored tips of some bright color, usually yellow. Combat zone or not did not matter, it was standard practice for colored tips.