My AV-22, a new type of "Spooky" or "Spectre"

You're evil LJ! Evil I say!

Looks like you're off to a good start. Will there be a WSO station or will the weapons be controlled by the left seater?

Between your Whiskey Hog, your Tilt-Rotor Escort and this - I think you need to hit up Bell for a job.

LJ-
Excellent, great start! That's going to look really awesome. How about a least one of something a little larger, like a 30mm Bushmaster? The Navy's going to be buying some MK44's to shoot mines from helos, and they're cheaper in bulk you know.

Keep posting pics.

Phil

You guys are making me want to dig out the one I did in 93 and has been packed away in a box for the last 7 1/2 years

Hmmm....how about installing a Mk.19 40mm grenade macine gun?

Thanks, everyone for the encouragement, this one should be a lot of fun, and a test of my skills, too.

The cannon will be pretty much scratch-built, so I may go with 30mm, just a bigger diameter tube/rod, right? As I was posting the photos, the idea of pairing the .50s hit me, and it would give me a little more hitting power to have 2 cannon, so I think I will go with that setup. The Mk-19 is another good suggestion.

Will post more photos as work progresses.

Off to a roaring start. Good work so far.

Thanks everyone. I'm planning on getting some interior painting done this weekend, as well as some work done on the WSO station in back. I've got the chair made, just have to put a console together. Then I'll need a couple more seats for the gunners that will reload and monitor the guns.

Edited on 8/26
Here's what I did today:
Started to work on the interior, added a bulkhead between what will be the WSO's station and the guns


Here's a close-up of what will be the WSO/targeting station:


Here are some of the details, the WSO's console and chair and the starboard side of the gun bay with the gunners' chairs.


And here is the console and chair close-up:


Next maybe I can get some paint shot on these parts.

Looks good to LJ, keep posting

LJ, looks great! Hopefully you're going to finish it wih the ramp down so the interior can be seen.

Keep posting pics.

Phil

Yep, ramp will be down and I've rassled with cutting the forward crew door and re-posing it open, but I'm not sure how well that will go. It's a good way to work on scratchbuilding skills. I'd hate for alot of this detail to be hidden, but it's mostly "gizmology" so maybe its for the best that it is.

If I were you I'd stick with one 30mm, one 20mm Vulcan or 25 mm, and maybe a minigun (7.62mm). Make sure you mount several sensors somewhere to include FLIR, LLTV and possibly a laser designator, and don't forget the pilot's side-mounted HUD sight.
You might want to throw in a couple snow shovels too, especially if you're going with the miniguns

Hmmmm....I might just have to do something like this myself.

Holy........! That will be a fire power! Is it your own concept or there is a real project like this on v-22 base? BTW is it Italeri 1:48 Osprey kit?

nice start!
Andy

Sal, thanks for the advice. She'll have an assortment of sensors, just like you said. I spent a while googling for good pics of AC-130s to give me ideas, but I think I'll scratch my own sensor turrets and some added bulges for the side-looking radar and other systems.

I was thinking the same thing about making a couple of shovels to strap to the wall next to the gunners seats.

intruder_bass, it's an idea I had one day and I decided to go with it instead of building the standard troop carrier. Now I need to get another kit so I CAN make the troop carrier! It is the Italeri 1/48 kit. So far it's not a bad kit, there are some ejector pin marks in tough spots near the ramp, and the interior is very basic, but it gives you a lot of play to add your own stuff like I am.

still kinda curios about this build... great idea but Im out to lunch on the weapons load. Miniguns would make it no different than any other helo gunship and the howitzers which seperate the AC-130 from the rest I think would be a little much for a V-22 I hate to say but I think putting a MK-19 on this thing would be like putting an automatic bb gun on a battleship. It needs something with alot more punch yet still practical for an airframe of this size... Rather than shovels and traps I why not just go with brass chutes like on many of the minguns already mounted on Helo's?

The weapons load is one that is still up for debate with my as well. I'm putting the minis in for sure. Can't have a Spectre without miniguns. I'm thinking that the cannons that I have to scratch will be in the 30mm to 40mm range. Bushmaster/chain gun type weapons. Then I'd really like to put something larger aboard as well, but may just go with the .50 cals. The Mk19 would be an effective weapon as that HEDP would play havoc with troops and vehicles on the ground. If I were to add one, it may be off the tail ramp.

I think you'd have to keep the brass collected inside the aircraft, since it would be operating at higher altitudes than the helos, the brass dropping from the sky could be an issue with civillians in the area.

I see this as more a platform against infantry and softskins, not armor. I thought of using the Opsrey as it could keep up with the troop carriers and provide extra guns on target in the LZ.

The wizzo's station is looking good, especially the seats. Scratchbuilt I presume?

Collect brass or dump it? That's a real good question; I think I I can guess what the GIBs would say to that.

Nice work so far LJ!

As far as the weapons load goes....how about a mounted recoilless rifle (75mm or 106mm), similar to Spectre's howitzer. You could lay down some sizable HE rounds with that thing. Or would it's reloading time make it impractical compared to a fast-firing 30mm or 40mm?
Food for thought anyways.....and you could still get that gunship "look" with the big 'ol recoilless barrel sticking out the aft side!

OK, i just realized how dumb I sounded with that last post. I don't think the GIB would appreciate all those exhaust gasses venting into his cabin. I forgot what made the recoilless rifle "recoilless." lol.

Snake,
Glad you caught that

The MK19 would be fine if it wasn't plagued with jamming problems. The gunner would be constantly clearing it to get it back online. I do agree that it should have some sort of weapon system with an exploding projectile like the 40mm Bofers or the 105mm, but I think either of these two would be too much for the airframe, not to mention the additional gunners necessary to crew them. New weapons systems for a new platform...stick with 25mm and 30 or 35mm chain guns/bushmasters for hard targets, a minigun (maybe two) for soft targets and volume of fire.
As far as miniguns being vanilla and used by pretty much every other Helo, there's a reason for that...hell of a crowd pleaser and fun to watch. Besides, when you're employing them all out of one side from an orbit, it really provides an area denial/target saturation capability. I'd stay away from the .50's...the chain guns would cover anything that the .50'ds could cover and then some.

Oh, and definately keep the spent brass inside....gunners could ramp dump it if necessary. Trying to provide room for a spent ammo chute system is going to take up a bunch of space that will already be at a premium on this bird. Besides, do you want all that FOD bouncing down the side of YOUR aircraft? It's a little different for a Helo with a couple minguns or even a .50 cal.

I had been thinking about recoilless rifles myself, snake, and came to the same realization as you!

I may have to try to scratch together a 20mm gatling to go in place of the 50s, going with what Sal said. It's still up in the air, but I'm thankful for all the input, that's for sure.

Couldn't a 40mm Bofors-like cannon work? With some whiz-bang advanced recoil system to absorb most of it? I want to keep it as realistic as possible, but I'm not above a little (more) gizmology to make a cool looking model.

Sal, I have to agree with the dumping the brass vs shoveling. I see them using large bins that catch most of the casings that can be put on a cart and rolled off the ramp back home, or could just be manhandled to the rear and tipped out while in flight.

A 40mm Bofors should work, also ever thought of using the 20mm gun from a snake as your turret, can leave off the fairing or scratch a lower profile one

AC-130 has a wallet that says "Bad Mutha " because they can carry a lot of big guns, stay up for a long time and is precise.

AV-22 - needs to earn the Bad MoFo title, but it's in a different weight category. It can be as presise and stay on station for a while with air-to-air refueling but can't carry as many cannon or as much ammo (something else that'll take up space inside) so what it does carry will have to really pack a wallop

My thinking with the Mk.19 was something that really went bang when it hit. I didn't know about jamming problems, so Sal, thanks for pointing that out. Looking back at his post on the 28th, I'm going to toss out these suggestions:.

- M230 30mm from the Apache
- M301 20mm cannon from the Comanche
- M242 25mm Bushmaster - or - GAU-12 25mm from the Harrier and AC-130U
- M129 40mm Grenade launcher from the AH-1G (Yes, I'm still big on explosing rounds. Jon tells me it's not a bad weapon, some guys liked it, others didn't - it has a slow rate of fire. Lob the grenades in...)

Something else to consider would be having the ability to adjust at least one gun onto a target, to keep it on target as much as possible and to attack two targets simultaneously.

Just my

Would this fly in high orbits, or operate closer to the line?

I don't know about the M129(think it was the same gun used in the M-5) and we had some problems with them. Had one were a practice round jammed in the barrel

Re: flight profile. I imagine it being employed in the low- to mid-altitudes. Anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand feet above the ground. I'd want it above a lucky RPG-7's range and out of most hand-held SAMs, but I don't see it up with the AC-130s. It's job isn't replacing them, but to augment that capability with the MEUs afloat. It could run out to the ship for reloads, maybe work in pairs so one is on station while the other is resupplied/refueled. My first thoughts were that it could orbit the LZ to provide fire support, or run parallel to a landing beach to give additional firepower as the tracks and LCACs come ashore. Does any of that make sense?

I can see the advantages of having the guns able to adjust fire onto the target and with the size of the holes I cut into the fuselage, that is a possiblity. I'm not so sure on the multiple individual targets, though, more likely is area saturation and suppression.

I probably won't nail down the guns and their layout until I'm almost ready to close up the fuselage. But keep the ideas coming!

Your description makes a lot of sense. Maybe there would be two runnig overhead in a racetrack pattern, that way as the first one turns around to set up it's next pass, a second TiltSpooky can make its run, ensuring there's plenty of metal raining down. And since you'd have two splitting the workload, each one's ammo would last (somewhat) longer. Only problem is - a predictable flight path.

But then, what do I know...

John - Re: M129 - that certainly is disappointing to hear.

Isn't there anything that's small enough to fit in the back of an Osprey that explodes real nice when it hits? http://www.wiseacre-gardens.com/buttons/pics/sounds/marvin05.wav

Do a clover leaf pattern, but never break the same direction, very it(right, left, left, right, etc) otherwise they can wait for the break, also the other ship can cover when you break

Hey SuperCobra ... did you ever get my email?

Grant
Sorry about the 40mm grenade launcher, but would be good only against troops in the open or soft-skinned vehicles anyway.
A 40mm Bofor should work for you, also I had an idea, how about a 75mm Howizter.
Bang for the buck and small in size also, they could be dis-assembled and carried on mules, recoil gizmo's would help in needed.(know the 75 is not in use now,) but I would think there should be some stored in a depots somewhere.
Note, you forgot Shadow in your title
AC-47 Spooky
AC-130 Spectre
AC-119 Shadow

Sorry to poo poo the idea but you aint gonna shoehorn a 40mm bofors in a V-22 airframe. And forget about a 75mm. Given the cabin dimensions, sensor operators booth & stations and ammo requirements, I'm thinking a max of two maybe three internal weapons. I'd also forget about a turret and concentrate on the fire support orbit. With the AH-1Z coming out, I'm sure the V-22's will have them along as attached escort. I see an AC-22's role more as detached rescort/fire support in a two ship orbit...one wider and higher than the other.

Grant's on the right track in my opinion. The 30 mm from the Apache (30mmX113) could carry a mix of HEDP and HEI. For that matter, the 25mm has a pretty good mix of projectile types as well



Should take care of all your "big flash, big boom" requirements