new here.........

OK, thanks......I've heard of "snake driver" but not read it as of yet.....I'll pick up a copy as soon as possible.

I realized that I had previously read parts of Gen. Tolsons report.........I was just re-reading it (the internet is something else isn't it)..........I have also been reading a book titled "price of exit" and some other information online and wherever I can find it. The number 107 comes up again and again when they talk about helicopter losses. But the author of "price of exit" Tom Marshall has information more to the effect that over 400 helicopters were hit by fire out of around 600-650 total. And of course, many helicopters that were hit and downed, later recovered and sling loaded back were never flown again. I do not know all of the circumstances of my father's year in country, but I do know they were brought down by enemy fire two days in a row....the first day was a hit in the oil cooler and they came down 25 miles inside laos.....the next day was a hit thru the transmission and they nursed it back. I also know from pictures I've seen that they were hit in the drive shaft for the tail rotor on another occasion, and from the DFC citation I remember reading that they were hit in the fuel cell while making dry runs over another downed bird while they extracted the crew. So that's 4 times that I know of........and there is mention in the A/4/77th web page of a crew that was downed with the a/c loosing a leg to 12.7 mm fire and the co-pilot also badley injured......but the records are very incomplete. Needless to say, if a battery complement was 12 ships....it appears to me that they ran thru quite a few airframes during that time frame...not to mention the ones damaged by mortar fire and sapper attack at khe sahn....so while it is thankfully true that many aircrew survived to fight another day...there is also the issue of remaining combat effective in terms of keeping enuff airframes flyable to meet the mission requirements.

Cobrahistorian and I both wrote books about Cobras. Mine is titled "Snake Driver! Cobras in Vietnam" and his is "AH1 Huey Cobra units in Vietnam." He also has a book about Apaches, but I'm a one-hit wonder ... LOL!

guys if you don't mind....could you please tell me who is writing which book? I'd like to get a copy of everything I can get my hands on.......

I agree, we didn't win, we were not defeated.....I think it's better to say we simply gave up.

I was fortunate when I was writing my book to find a Cobra pilot who was in Lam Son 719. I also found a wealth of information about it in Maj. Gen. John Tolson's official monograph on Airmobile operations. What always amazes me is how these kinds of operations were essentially a success, but the lack of follow-through because of politics failed to capitalize on the gains made by those who fought so hard. Then, in hindsight, the media and Hollywood paint them up as collosal failures. The fact is ... we DID NOT LOSE the Vietnam war. It was fully two years after our combat troops withdrew that Saigon fell and that was because Congress cut off aid to South Vietnam while the Soviet and Chinese blocks increased their support to the North. But history, as written by a generation of liberals, demands that we be the losers. I'll stop short of saying we won, but we were not defeated.

Cobra Historian,

yes that's him. He turned down an opportunity to go for CW5 and apache or blackhawk training, and I know it was hard for him to retire. It was hard for him to watch all the katrina stuff going on and not being able to fly anymore......had he stayed in, he would have been activated for two years I think it was, with the second year being deployed to a combat zone. I told him for whatever my two cents was worth....he's already given enuff.

The subject of vietnam was always like the elephant in the room while I was growing up......I was always fascinated and as a child I remember digging thru the buried medals and citations and copies of old newspapers and so forth....but it was never talked about. It seems after 9-11, OEF and OIF and perhaps just time heals all wounds.....but dad seems more willing to talk about things now. Still, I've learned most of the things about that time period in I corp in 1970-71 from what little books and information exists online. The ARA doesn't have much of a showing online compared to a lot of the lift companies. The Keith Nolan book's "ripcord" and "into laos" are the best information I've found yet. And your book is very good too I might add. It says something very deeply to me, that Lam Son 719 was probably the most intense AAA environment ever faces by helicopter crews anywhere in the world......and it was like a crossroads in helicopter airmobile operations......and yet, it's so obscure and forgotten that it's as if it almost never happened.....as if it's burried in the minds of the men who participated....and of course there's not a lot of ARVN or NVA left alive to tell their side of the story even if anyone cared enuff to listen and write it down. It's no wonder to me that these old vietnam vets don't talk about it much..........I don't think any of us could ever understand unless we had been there with them.

QUOTE: Originally posted by phantom works I work at boeing in st. louis as a design engineer. I've worked on F-15E, F-15S, F-15I, F/A-18E/F, T-38C AMU, X-32 JSF, X-45 UCAV, MH-47E/G studies, and some things I can not confirm nor deny. My interests are broad; anything from WWII thru the present.

Welcome... I would love to be involved with projects like that... On any level. I was a little late choosing what I like in life though, so no formal engineering for me. :-)

Crazy question... I assume you keep tabs on flight ops around there. We had an out of town F-15 out our way doing some testing at Point Mugu NAS for a few days a while back. Would you happen to know if your test guys use the radio call RED? I was guessing it was from St. Louis, but not sure.

Dave
-DPD Productions - Custom Scanner, MURS, & Ham Antennas-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/

Two dirtbags!!!! Bob, that's great!!
Phantom, if you go to the Community assistance (aka forum help) section of the forum, down at the bottom of the forum index, the first sticky is about posting pictures. On page three of that thread is my explanation of what I did. It was easy for me, if you have trouble post a reply in that thread, or this one, and I'll see if I can help you. Welcome to the forum!!

Hey Jonny ... you know the difference between an Apache and a vacuum cleaner? The Apache has two dirtbags in it! LOLOLOLOLOL!

Phantom,

I thought you sounded familiar! Please extend a hardy hello to your dad, and I believe I still owe him a signed book! I've been rather busy myself as I've been posted to the 1-104th Attack, PA Guard and I'm waiting to go to Rucker and Apache transition.

Drop me an email off list and I'll see that your dad gets a signed copy!

Phantom,

I thought you sounded familiar! Please extend a hardy hello to your dad, and I believe I still owe him a signed book! I've been rather busy myself as I've been posted to the 1-104th Attack, PA Guard and I'm waiting to go to Rucker and Apache transition.

Drop me an email off list and I'll see that your dad gets a signed copy!

thanks guys, first question........how is the best way to post pics on here? Do I need my own server space somewhere or do they host pics somewhere here on the forum that I can't seem to figure out??

as far as the cobra book from osprey, I've got it already.....in fact, my father provided some of the source material for that book, and is pictured in the section titled "vietnamization"........I don't have the book in front of me right now, so I can't remember what page the pictures are on, but look for CW0 Barry Martens in the captions.....

Hope you find the forums helpful and friendly.

Welcome and congrats!!!! I use to be in Electrical Engineering for Boeing Everett, WA working on the big boys. 747-400, 767 and the 777. After 2 tours and 2 lay-offs, I am proud to say I am done! Hope to hear a lot from you.

Welcome aboard Phantom Works, and congrats on the new "L'il Phantom!"

As far as building an AH-1G Cobra, you've come to the right place! A great reference is "US Army AH-1 Cobra Units in Vietnam" by Jonathan Bernstein, available now at all good bookstores and online at Amazon.com or Osprey Press.

As far as needing decals for your Snake, check out http://www.fireballmodels.info/ His set includes four subjects from the US Army during the Vietnam War, along with some generic insignia and badges to help depict other helicopters of the era. (Ooh, that reminds me - I gotta place a couple of orders myself!). He also has a conversion set for the Anti-Strella kit and right hand tail rotor. You'll need this if you build the big Shark-mouthed Snake from the decal set.

Welcome and congradulations on your upcoming family addition, we will be gald to help you if we can