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MH-60G control panel

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  • Member since
    November 2005
MH-60G control panel
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:02 PM

Quick question for you guys,

 

I'm workin on the Academy MH-60G and am currently detailing the control assembly, but am a bit stumped on this task. Anyone have pictures ofthe Pavehawks panel? Scale or real would be fine, just lookin for some ideas to work with.

 

Thanks!

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 8:43 AM
Pix taken in Dec 03 by our very own Salbando, and posted on the ARC walkaround pages:






These are late model HH-60Gs (no longer called MH-60Gs) in various states of the most recent Mod upgrade. It wasn't unusual to see aircraft within the same unit in different configurations while the Mods were being done. I think (Sal, correct me if I'm wrong here) all of the AK ANG birds are up to date now and most, if not all, are overall Gunship Gray too

Sal's complete HH-60G Walkaround can be found here
You can also view walkarounds here and here
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:31 AM
Grant was quicker on the keyboard than me.  I was going to show you the same pics and links to the walkarounds.  Great pics.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:15 AM
That's only 'cause I've got that "coffee-stain" Pave Hawk on the brain right now! Wink [;)]
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:32 PM

Exactly what i needed! Thanks!

 Looks like i painted a too many knobs red on my kit. Now i gotta find a cotnrol stick to hack off an old kit for, i assume thats the FLIR control on the center panel? Guess I should buy an aftermarket FLIR assembly first.

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:40 PM
Check this out; Cobra Company's HH-60G Detail Set
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:03 PM

 Trigger wrote:
That's only 'cause I've got that "coffee-stain" Pave Hawk on the brain right now! Wink [;)]

Hi Grant,

How are the markings coming?  Looking forward to staring on it soon.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:42 PM
It won't take me very long to update the actual graphics file since I've seen no stencils that were any different than your standard Pave Hawk. I'm wrapping up my annual hard drive clean up (ie - "Why do I still have every iPod updater on here since 2003?" and archiving this past year's work and e-mails - you don't want to know how many DVDs I've gone thru already). I've found the relevant e-mails and two pix (I think there was at least one more I had) and I'm shaking the tree to see if anything new falls.
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:40 PM

My pavehawk so far. Just realized I'm going to have to snap those .50cal mounts off when i do the final spraying.

What do you think? Advice? This is the first non-figure or armor kit I've built in a good 4 years, so any comments are welcome.

 

http://www.andrewnellesphoto.com/hosted/pave1.jpg

http://www.andrewnellesphoto.com/hosted/pave2.jpg

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:39 PM
Oh yeah, those .50 cal mounts will have to go. Althought the Pave Hawk is physically capable of carrying two M2s like that, and they have done evals with that kind of setup, it's not used operationally since they would get in the way of people getting in or out of the cabin.


Here are some good Hawk interiors:



Gino's built his MH-60L in the DAP configuration, hence the additional ammo can in the main cabin. However, the MH-60L and HH-60G are still very similar. Note the first aid packs on the back of the pilots' seats


I'm only using one cabin gas tank as I'm building an Alaska Air Guard machine. I've scratchbuilt a shelf that they carry and added misc gear (first aid, life raft, etc.) and I've added "non-skid" tape on the floor of my cabin. You can also see the fire extinguisher and hoist control panel that come with the Cobra Company set on the bulkheads.

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 9:58 PM

The aid packs on the seats are going to be the next step for me, I remembered seeing those in some Blackhawks I've been in. I'm hoping I can find some similar shaped pouches in my spares box, if not looks easy to sculpt.  

About the .50's, I've heard that before, not sure where. Just couldn't get myself to leve them out, they look so good on the kit. I'll probably pop them off before I glue it all into the body, I hope its not too damaging. Maybe I will just leave them off in the long run.

What did you use for the no-skid? Is it just painted on? Looks great.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:16 PM

Hi guys,

There's a couple of things I noticed for what they're worth. The M2 mounts in the cabin door are pretty much out now. The USAF came up with new external mount they use on the M2s, M240s, and GAU-17s. The mount attaches by the landing gear strut and the ammo can is below the gunners windows. I'm not sure if it is on every -60G now. I doubt they would carry the internal ammo handling system with these newer external ones mounted. The other option is to carry the standard pintle in the gunners windows with the minigun or the M240. If you go with a minigun in the window there are cabin electronic boxes and cables that go to the gun, too. Run a Google search and you can find some images or hop up on the USAF site. If you strike out on those let me know. 

Also, the nose on some Pavehawks varies greatly from what I've seen. Some have the radar on the centerline like a Coast Guard Jayhawk, others have it off-set from the centerline like the original birds. ASE sensors like MAWS are on an mount similar to the MH-60Ls. There are up to 6 - the most I've ever seen - chaff/flare dispensers on the fuselage.

In the cabin the aircrew will have SAR bags, Stokes litters, and tons of other stuff. It comes down to how far overboard you want to go! 

I test Seahawks so I appologize if I've dorked up some of this a bit. If I have I'm sure one of the guys who's actually in the Pavehawk community can jump in and straighten me out. I hope this helps you.

You were right about the grip on the lower center console, it is for the FLIR. The photos look great - the front cockpit looks super. Keep us posted!

Have a Happy New Year!

Dan

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:53 PM
 Redlion615 wrote:

Hi guys,

There's a couple of things I noticed for what they're worth. The M2 mounts in the cabin door are pretty much out now. The USAF came up with new external mount they use on the M2s, M240s, and GAU-17s. The mount attaches by the landing gear strut and the ammo can is below the gunners windows. I'm not sure if it is on every -60G now. I doubt they would carry the internal ammo handling system with these newer external ones mounted. The other option is to carry the standard pintle in the gunners windows with the minigun or the M240. If you go with a minigun in the window there are cabin electronic boxes and cables that go to the gun, too. Run a Google search and you can find some images or hop up on the USAF site. If you strike out on those let me
know.

Yup, those are external mounts and ammo cans. There's so much stuff already cramming up the cabin, they moved the ammo cans to the outside. They're part of the most recent Mods (Block 152). If you're going to have internal ammo cans, you won't have external cans and vice versa

 Redlion615 wrote:

Also, the nose on some Pavehawks varies greatly from what I've seen. Some have the radar on the centerline like a Coast Guard Jayhawk, others have it off-set from the centerline like the original birds. ASE sensors like MAWS are on an mount similar to the MH-60Ls. There are up to 6 - the most I've ever seen - chaff/flare dispensers on the fuselage.

Yeah, so far only the 66th RQS at Nellis AFB carries a center mounted radome, all the other units carry theirs offset. Why don't they all carry front and center? Dunno - probably not enough a performance difference to justify the cost.

Here's a good breakdown of the Block 152 mods (the first shot is of a Nellis bird):




 Redlion615 wrote:

In the cabin the aircrew will have SAR bags, Stokes litters, and tons of other stuff. It comes down to how far overboard you want to go!

Amen! Sal sent me the following pix:




This shot was taken in Afghanistan and shows the difference between  the peacetime SAR setup and  when the Pave hawk is on a war footing. the ammo cans here are borrowed from the CA ANG:

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:16 PM

Well this discussion inspired me to remove the .50 mounts. Mounting some various gear and bags at the moment. . Any idea on where i could find a 1/35th Stokes basket?

 

Pic of the modifcations, might add a small bag or two.

http://www.andrewnellesphoto.com/hosted/pave3.jpg

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:04 AM
No known source for a 1:35 Stokes. Gino sent me a scale drawing of one to use as a basis for scratchbuilding one out of metal wire, but I don't know where it is at the moment. Looks like you're using a bag from that Tamyia accessories kit in your new setup. The ammo boxes are a nice touch and they look good, but I don't know if they'd be carried (Sal?) The jungle penatrator I think would be on the right side of the cabin (where the external rescue hoist is mounted) as would it's operating mech (again, I'll ask Sal to confirm this). I know Alaska bags theirs, other units may not have a need for one. Gino could post right after me suggesting a totally different interior configuration involving aft facing bench seats and big radio boxes and a four-color Euro 1 finish instead of three and he'd be right.

And that's a good lead-in to the following: because of the different Mods and their rate of implementation and the different interior configurations of Pave Hawks among units, different camouflage schemes and markings, your best bet will be to pick a specific bird from a specific time period, find as much reference material as you can, and model that particular bird.
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 29, 2005 3:16 AM

Thanks for the advise. I got the ammo can idea after seeing this pic.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/501-600/walk599_HH-60_Shirley/24.jpg

In my online research I saw bags in several (3 pics come to mind, I'll look for links) pavehawks, both in black and orange. No idea what these carry (anyone know?) but i enjoyed the look. About the jungle penetrator, I suppose that would make more sense, I think I'll move it. Shift the orange bag and cans over. 

As far as my goal in the long run, just aiming for a rather generic MH-60G, no specific unit or era, in gunship grey opposed to Euro. So accuracy to a specific bird isn't what I'm gonig for, just keeping it all plausible.

Thanks again, I'm am wondering why I ever stoped building aircraft, this is a great kit to return to, lol.  

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Thursday, December 29, 2005 7:16 AM
Yup, those look like ammo boxes. Never seen 'em with yellow lids before.

Out of the box, the Academy kit is a late 80s/early 90s MH-60G and it is generic. One of the great things about the Pave Hawk is that it's got so much personality, and that comes from all the mods they've done since then as well as all the gear they carry in the cabin (plus, the crews are characters all to themselves Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]).

If you're going to finish your Pave Hawk in Gunship Gray, then that's a late model HH-60G. They were repainted overall AFSOC Gray (FS36118) while they were at the depot undergoing Block 152 Mods, and that's been going on for roughly the last three years or so. That'll mean external ammo cans and gun mount (you can use either the .50 cals or the miniguns), repositioned nav lights, plume detectors on the nose, a chaff/flare box on both sponsons as well as two on each side of the tail boom, no SATCOM antenna on the tail boom ("towel rack"), and RWR on the tail.

In the cabin, you'll need to remove the big ammo cans and install radio and countermeasures boxes aft of the pilots, as well as the stokes by the fuel tanks. In that first shot of Sal's showing the interior, the upright orange bag in the background is the penetrator and the bag in the stokes liter is SAR-related (I forget what's in there). The RWR and other details come in the CC detail set, which again, I urge you to pick up.
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:18 AM

Grant has pretty much covered the basics.  I'm on vacation in FL now and can't get to the stokes litter diagram.  It is at home.  As to the Gunship Gray MH/HH-60Gs, they can have the external ammo cans or the internal ammo can.  Either way is still used.  As Grant stated, various helos are in various stages of upgrade and have some of the latest mods and not others.  Interior is looking good so far.  Keep us posted.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 30, 2005 3:13 PM

Wow...It's good to know that you guys could use the info and pics I gave ya.  You're all over it!  More to come by the way.

Gino and Grant are spot on.  The bottom line is that the Block 152/162 and SPS upgrades all came in phases.  Fortunately we (my squadron) are finally getting (already have got for the most part) the last phase of the upgrade.  Some of the upgrades are internal and you'd never really know the difference with respect to modeling.  A couple things.

Correct on the .50 cal.  The only time I've ever seen them were at Nellis and onboard 66th RQS or 422 TES birds.  Buuuuuttttt...hold the phone.  Now that we've got the external gun mount system, we're getting ma dueces.  That's right, I also talked to our weapons NCOIC and he confirmed it.  They really are nice for stand off ranges, semi-hard target penetration, and checking the seals on the plexiglass (just kidding...sort of).

Grant is right about our loosing the towel rack HF antenna, but in his picture he shows a "new" antenna on the tail.  Actually that antenna has always been there.  It's an omni VHF/UHF antenna (I think) and is quite a bit sturdier than the ones I've seen on most UH-60's.  At least as far as I remember (I don't really look at that stuff too often on the job).  It's not a whip antenna rather a strudy steel (some other kind of metal) antenna.

Yeah, you'll see some birds still using the internal ammo bins and gun mounts, but they're going away pretty quickly.  Basically as they come out of depot, they've got most of the new mods.  Just depends where a particular squadron is at with respect to previous mods.

The TES guys and 66th RQS have the only birds I've seen with the MH-60L looking nose radar configuration.  Wish I could tell ya why they have them, other than to say they are the test and evaluation/tactics guys for the USAF HH-60G fleet.  The normal configuration for the radar is not nearly as FOD prone as the damn FLIR.  Up here in Alaska we've really got to watch the damn thing to make sure we don't ding it.

The boxes I saw in the picture look like pyro boxes to me.  At least that's what we use them for.  We carry smokes and other stuff in there.  The only time you'll see standard 7.62 ammo cans is when we're using the M-240.  Then we've got a buynch of them stacked, but not in the rear...that's PJ real estate.  Usually the ammo cans would be strapped down in the center or elsewhere near the gunner/FE.

Oh yeah, the gunner and FE's radio/comm/gun/SPS racks are ALWAYS there regardless of guns or not.  And they do come with the CC set.  The CC set gives you what's needed for a -60 in mid-upgrade.  In other words it has the downward firing (fixed) chaff/flare dispensors on the sponsons and the single boxes (I think) on the tail (one on each side).  The SPS mods changed all that and we've got the directional mounts with 6 total cans like Grant described.  Basically the full suite of AN/APR-39/47 with plume detectors added to the sponsons at first and eventually to the nose.  The tail configuration for the plume detector's and hockey pucks (spiral antenna radar detectors) were always the same.  It also added the "Oh Shit!" buttons in the cabin. (sorry, but I just got off alert and I'm tired)   

I think the Navy calls the 7.62 minigun the GAU-17.  We call it a GAU-2B in the USAF and the Army calls it an M-134.  We also don't officially call the ma duece an M-2, but hell.....it's always been Ma Duece to me....cause when she talks, EVERYONE listens.

Lot's of units use the twin tanks in the back, but some (like us) don't as Grant has described.  We have a unit made rack for gear on the right rear bulkhead where we can stow PJ gear and hoist gear (and whatever the hell else we want).  Understand that where what you would find inside the cabin is concerned, there will always be certain common mission items, but due to space constraints, we also tailor gear to specific mission requirements.  For example, we're not gonna bring the tanks and drysuits if it's a mission up to Mt Mckinley, and we're gonna leave the crampons, ice axes and ropes for a water mission.  We've ALWAYS got a stokes, a penetrator, a strope, an MA-1 kits, raft, survival sled (with gear) our own (PJ) medical bags, dropable radio kits, and a bunch of other crap I'm probably forgetting about.  There's usually a bunch of damn commo wire bundled up (hopefully) and afixed to the ceiling or on the sides, and maybe even a few headsets.  Understand that I'm talking about a bird that's ccked and locked on alert...a mission configured bird.  You might see cleaner insides on training lines, but also understand that we usually use our alert bird for training lines.  Give's us a quicker response time as we can just divert off the training flight, hit the tanker and press.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something but as I said I'm tired and about to hit the rack so I can pull another shift tonight.  I will tell you ojne thing that's off topic (kinda) but you may find interesting....

One of our sticks got a tour up at NGB working on the CSAR-X program (evaluating/selecting the HH-60G replacement).  Well you all probably know that the CV-22 pulled out of the running, but the US101 (H-71) and S-92 are still in there.  Well since the CV-22 pulled out, Boeing has inserted a new competitor.  You guessed it, the MH-47G.  And I'll tell you this, considering that it's a known entity with a proven track record, tons of internal space, lots of power (especially at high altitudes and even in hot/high scenarios), it's jumped into the lead as the front runner as far as the operators (us guys on the line doing the mission) are concerned.  Plus they're still building them.  I'd guess it's mainly down to the MH-47 and the H-71.  I'll keep you posted on what I hear.........

Good night,

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 30, 2005 3:17 PM

Damn...just saw how long that post was.  Sorry guys.

I also noticed that I just hit 500...hooya (he said with eyelids cramping closed).

Grant,

we need to get working on that dang website...that is of course after I finish my Senior NCO academy course (man am I procrastinating on that thing).  Whay don't you tease them about it a bit?

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 30, 2005 4:28 PM

As far as the orange bag in the cabin goes, if it looks like the one in this link from the Navy website:

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/050427-N-9500T-111.jpg

it is probably a SAR bag. It contains the handtools and equipment that might be required during a SAR mission. This is a pretty good cabin shot of a Sierra doing hoist work and you can see the horse collar up on the helo's life raft.

If you can't find the scale Stokes drawing I can get some dimensions when I get back to work next week and post them - the only helos I've got my hands on over vacation are 1/48 and in small pieces right now! As I never found anything premade online I'm just scratchbuilding my Stokes.

I was wondering do any of you guys know of a good way to make helmet bags? Putty molded to the shape? I was going to hang one off the seats in the cabin of the MH-60S I'm building. Thanks.

Thanks for the info on the CSAR proposal - interesting to hear the perspectives from your side of the demos! If you can share anything else it'd be nice to hear. I don't know if you guys heard about it but some of the offshore operators that support SAR work over in the UK chose the -92 as part of a mixed fleet. It's going to be interesting to see how it develops.

Take care,

Dan

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Maryland
Posted by Par429 on Friday, December 30, 2005 6:14 PM
Hey, pardon the interuption, but Redlion, tell us about the MH-60S you are building. What kit are you modding? Scale? , etc. I work on Sierras at work and it's on my short list of helo models I would like to build. If you are willing to post something (some pics?) maybe start a new thread so this one doesn't get hijacked.


Thanks, Phil
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Friday, December 30, 2005 8:30 PM
Just browsed through this today, man o man you guy are doing fabulous work on those. Sal from what I saw they don't give you much room with all that gear in them
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Saturday, December 31, 2005 1:05 AM
That's why the H-92 & H-71 (and now the MH-47G!!!!! Big Smile [:D]) are under consideration - tons of legroom!

Okay, every so often the HH-60G topic pops up here. Salbando, our resident expert on all things Jolly and Green provides the best and most comprehensive feedback. However, he's usually pretty busy doing his Superman-thing to visit us here at FSM as often as he'd like. So either myself or HeavyArty will step up as substitute hitters, covering the 101 level questions. But that's a lot of typing and linking and posting the same pix, so I just figured - why not make a website that covers the Pave Hawk, Hercules, PJs, HH-53 and the HH-3 Jolly Green Giant and just link to it whenever the topic comes up?

So Sal and I have hammered out a rough outline for the site, what it'll cover and how it'll be structured and I've started doing work on what the pages will look like. Don't ask when it'll be completed as we've both got day jobs but it'll be worth the wait.

Here's a sketch of one of the home page comps:


------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Saturday, December 31, 2005 5:00 AM

First of all: out standing job andrewnelles !
Here and now I'm working on a pavehawk, too and I must say yours is coming along pretty good.

Sal,
It's true that your post are pretty extensive but beeing so long they are really really helpful. Thanks for all the info.
BTW should you and Trigger need any help on the web site let me know: I make ASP (active server pages) for a living.

Klaus

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:52 PM
Congrats Avus. You just volunteered!Big Smile [:D]

I'll shoot you an e-mail that's more desciptive of what's going on with the site.

------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:20 PM

Damn'! Why don't I keep my mouth shut! Wink [;)]

Just kidding; I'm looking forward to read your mail.

Klaus

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, January 1, 2006 9:46 PM

47 as a replacement, interesting, wouldn't be the first Army bird the AF adopted

Note. Army medi-vac motto, "Not without your wounded"

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 8:03 PM

Hi guys,

The website you're talking about sounds like an great resource to have out there. I'd love to tackle a -53J or M sometime and I know very little about them so this would be a great place to check out. Who knows, once the CSAR decision is made maybe we'll be able to start kit-bashing and make up one of the test birds, too.

Forgive the brief sidetrack but to answer Phil's question I'll put some stuff up this weekend about how I'm modifying a -60G into the -60S in a separate entry. Sorry it's taken a while for a reply - work has called and the models on the workbench are on hold!

Take care,

Dan

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, January 4, 2006 8:54 PM

Here is the 1/35 Stokes litter diagram and some referance photos.

 

 

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

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