Looking for Jolly Green walkaround

salbando wrote:

Now THAT'S what AFSOC needs instead of the V-22 in my humble opinion....an MH-53K Pave Low.

Ditto about "Pave-ing" this new CH-53K as a real MH-53M Pave Pig replacement. I know it's not intended to be, but there's just no way the CV-22 will be able to do a lot of the things the MH-53M can. In fact, I'm still not sure just how the CV-22 fits into AFSOC.

SeaStallion wrote:

Hey Gino no hard feelings mate, from one modeler to another alright?

 

No grudges held between two modelers or two Soldiers.  CH/MH-53K looks like a great piece of gear too.  Should be great once it comes on line.

Now THAT'S what AFSOC needs instead of the V-22 in my humble opinion....an MH-53K Pave Low.

We no longer have Pedro's for Sar.  Just 53's, SH-60's, and P-3's.  The Mighty D is going bye bye around 2014 (LOL) pending the Osprey is ramped up and running by then.  Hold your breath, because we aren't.  Hell we just had one V-22 Ball it up a couple of weeks ago.  I haven't any details on that one.  Anyway you should read about the Navy/Marine Corps just signed for the new CH-53K.  Now that is the Big Iron and it is going to be one mean mother.  Hey Gino no hard feelings mate, from one modeler to another alright?

 

Later Gang

You also might notice that my main point was the LACK of any new updates or information on the product.  In reality, I could care less how long it takes to produce a model and it's fine by me that the process is long, but if you're going to make an announcement concerning a product you're going to produce, how's about a simple update every once in a while? ...... Now, for the record 1.  I DO hope that Nightflight in some way whether on their own or via another company has success with their projects. 2.  I have the utmost respect for anyone trying to produce accurate, new, as of yet not represented subjects in modeling especially with respect to helicopters.  I also respect how long it takes.  Would just like a little more info now and then on the progress of said projects.  Too much to ask? Maybe. 3.  When and if they're produced I (like many) will probably purchase these products.

 

Sal, couldn't have said it better myself.  I'm done with this issue/debate as well.

SeaStallion,

I feel ya brutha.  Ops tempo and personal matters have really side-tracked my modeling lately.  Here's hoping you get back to Kaneohe safe and sound.

BTW, the place sure has changed since I used to live outside the gate.  No more F-4's or TA-4J's.  No more UH-1N's or Phrogs.  Now there's a bunch of dang P-3's on the ramp and bugs on the flightline.  At least the big iron is still there alive and well.  So what's the plan for you guys?  How long you gonna hold on to those D models?  Oh and are there still HH-46D's sitting on SAR alert?  Thinking about doing Academy's -46 as a Kaneohe SAR bird.

 

Matt,

Good to go, and welcome to the forums.

Just wanted to end it with some images of the ole' HH-3 Jolly Green.

salbando wrote:

Matt...no offense but grab a coke and a smile bud and figure out what you're gonna do for a living when they phase out the Pave Lows for the V-22.

 

Coke, Popcorn, and 8 years to figure it out.     C/W

 

Again, sorry the post was offensive to some..........Issue complete.

Cheers

Matt

Anyway, I get passionate about the Mighty SeaStallion LOL.  With regards to details of CH-53D's, I have tons of photos of anything you can imagine, that's what 18 years on these things will do for you, but right now I am sitting over here in Al Anbar Providence living the dream.  When Chief Owl releases the Model it will come with a pretty sh!t hot photo gallery book.  When I get back in the fall I can speak with whoever wants some detail photos and hook them up for their detailing references.  Anyway I hope everyone is doing well and happy modeling because I dang sure miss my hobby shop LOL.

 

Take Care

 

"Until then, try helping folks rather than bad mouthing them." 

Tell ya what Matt, you do a little research of your own (you're a gunner, you've got the time), like maybe how much Gino and I have in the past helped out others in this forum, and I'll think about answering your questions.  In particular give Grant a call and I'm sure he'll fill you in.  I don't think I've EVER made a negative post on this forum, but wasn't about to stand by when someone who has contributed so much was flamed.  While you're at it, you might want to read our posts again (especially mine) as it was a response to another poster attacking Gino's post.  You also might notice that my main point was the LACK of any new updates or information on the product.  In reality, I could care less how long it takes to produce a model and it's fine by me that the process is long, but if you're going to make  an announcement concerning a product you're going to produce, how's about a simple update every once in a while?  Like Mr Beasley himself said, I even contacted him early on about producing an HH-3E/F.  The problem is that while I've got a dash-1, the only flying example I could access is a civie model owned by Evergreen.  At least it's an Ex-HH-3F.  Still thinking of pursueing this further with him.

Now, for the record

1.  I DO hope that Nightflight in some way whether on their own or via another company has success with their projects.

2.  I have the utmost respect for anyone trying to produce accurate, new, as of yet not represented subjects in modeling especially with respect to helicopters.  I also respect how long it takes.  Would just like a little more info now and then on the progress of said projects.  Too much to ask? Maybe.

3.  When and if they're produced I (like many) will probably purchase these products.

4.  If anybody needs detail shots of an HH-3 let me know as I have a few.  I also have quite a bit of info on the HH-3E so ask away. 

Matt...no offense but grab a coke and a smile bud and figure out what you're gonna do for a living when they phase out the Pave Lows for the V-22.  Maybe you'll have enough time to retire by then, or maybe retrain but from what I heard AFSOC Helo gunners are going to be out of a job for the most part.  Hell, we're trying to make our gunners FE-lights.

Oh, and polishing turds is part of the game.  Who always wants a model that's perfect and not in some kind of need of detailing.  Hell, that's the fun part in my book.

I'm done with this thread.  I thought we all already were as Mr Beasley's response did a lot to help me understand a few things.  I guess Matt the gunner still felt the need to send some rounds down range.  So any more shots can be PM'd to me.  That goes for support as well.

Ummm... Hey Matt, good to see you over here too.... . 

Not gonna touch this one.... This subject just won't die, will it? 

 

Ok, I am new here, but I have been around the sites for some time.  And I will just ask a few questions:

Salbando & HeavyArty,

When was the last time you researched, planned, purchased, and produced anything related to manufacturing a model?  Because, if the two of you had, I doubt very seriously you would be speaking of any company in the way you are.  Constructive criticism is one thing, bad mouthing is quite a different story. 

 

And now to the next question for the both of you. 

How long did Trumpeter research their CH-47 project and who were the original plan holders?  Oh and can you give me the timeframe of all of it (I.e, the original date it was introduced as a production thought)?  When you come up with all of that, let me know.  Until then, try helping folks rather than bad mouthing them. 

Sorry that my first post was in this mannor.  I just can't stand people who post on the subject they are trashing without any justification.

 

I, for one, will wait patiently for a QUALITY kit to be produced, rather than polish a turd (not speaking of any kit in particular).

 

Cheers

Matt Garcia

Oh, and if you feel the need to talk to me personally, email me at pavelow44@gimail.af.mil.  I would be HAPPY to respond to anything.

Back to Jolly Green now...

I know that sometime within the last 20-30 years that a Jolly Green was painted in two shades of gray (think the gray A-7D scheme) and (another one?) a Leopard scheme (like the 20th SOS UH-1Ns)

I've looked all around the web for 'em with no luck. If anyone knows anything about these, could you share with me what you've got?

TIA

SeaStallion wrote:

I don't know who you are Gino, and by the tone of your messages, I don't care too either.

 

Great, glad to know you too.  Like I said above, if it comes to fruition, that would be great.  Till I see something hard, I won't believe it.  Glad you are so passionate about it.  Hopefully, your assistance will push the project along.  No need to get pissy though.  I am only stating the facts.  There is nothing hard to show for it.  Until then, it is nothing more than a file in a computer.

Salbando,

 

I actually did not intend to post anymore updates or progress reports on forums like this at all. CG images may be the only thing I will show of my work. Who knows… We will see but as you may know there is also the option of selling what I am doing to another company. I have and will keep my options open.

 

The main concern is that it has been many years since I first announced this project. I personally regret more then anything else that I have not been able to hold any of the announced progress reports and/or release dates. I regret it for very selfish reasons one for example being lost time and income. The reasons however are manifold and are in the end only my concern. I will take the heat regardless. I don’t need hugs and pat comments. In which way one does state his or her opinion is up to that person alone. But some comments do not encourage me to go public with anything I have. The crew figures BTW are in the same state as the H-53’s they still only exist mainly as a file. Like everything else they will continue to be that way until I decide what I want to do with them.

 

I always seek support in anyway I can get it. Unfortunately many of the intended supporters did not follow through with the help that they promised. I am not trying to divert from the fact that in the end I am responsible for NightFlight BUT without proper research nothing will move forward. From day one it has been my main drawback that I am a designer and not a person even remotely related to any kind of aviation. Again I will take the heat as the owner of NightFlight but I can assure all of you that there is a lot more to this project then most of you are able (or willing) to see. In short: No REAL support (access to the aircraft for measuring and photography, access to manuals and technical support on a regular basis via at least e-mail) there will be… No progress. No “hard parts”. No prototypes. No final product. It is as simple as that. Alike Trumpeter I only construct or design something I have highly accurate information of. Other people think it is okay as long as it looks like the real thing. I think different. The progress on the CH-53D and the Pave Low is only possible because of a few very fine individuals out of dozens and dozens of “supporters” and despite the fact that it has only been lesser than a year ago that I actually had the equipment and the environment to continue constructing and designing after my relocation from Germany to the US.

 

I recall that we both talked a long time ago about the HH-3. I will renew my offer that if I have unlimited access to a HH-3 to measure and make photos, if I can get whatever manuals or technical or scale drawings there are and if you are willing to be a technical advisor it could possibly be a future project. But just think if you are able to provide such assistance or if you know anybody else who could. Or even better do you think it would be possible with NightFlight located in Germany as I was just 1 ½ years ago?

 

I am not writing this here to convince anybody of anything. I however wanted to make a point that there is no straight and even path to a successful product no matter if you are a one man company, like I am with a few helpers that assist without any payment or guarantee that their help will be reimbursed some day or if you are a big company like Trumpeter. Another point I want to make here is that I can think of better things then being a constant source for frustration, laughter and scoff and it surely has never and will never be what I want. What I do want is to provide the modeling community with missing modeling subjects by either producing them myself or providing another company with “machinable” data. I can assure you that I don’t spend the time creating fancy renderings of complex and time consuming CAD constructions just for fun and in addition to be told that there is now real progress.

 

From now on anybody still interested in what I am doing can contact me via e-mail. The address is william.beasley@nightflight-models.com as I will not be posting anything regarding NightFlight on this or any other forum for a long time to come. I hope to find the time to get the NightFlight website back up and running soon but for near future all I can provide is communication via e-mail.

 

Enough said…

Hey Sal, I will be back in Heaven sometime around October.  Yea I miss home alright, who could ever think Hawaii sucked is beyond me LOL.  Take Care

I don't know who you are Gino, and by the tone of your messages, I don't care too either. But a small group of us have gotten together with Chief Owl to assist in the this project.  You obviously don't have a inkling as to how something of this magnitude is researched, designed, and developed do you?  Night Flight is not a large company such as Trumpeter, therefore patience and time is required.  The forums are a place to trade info, assist others, and reunite those with the same interests.  Not a place for one Tool to dish out his anger or hate towards another because he/she feels somewhat slighted.  If you are so interested in this project how about lending some help, otherwise I suggest you take a backseat and keep your mouth shut.  I have been assisting on this project for better part of 2 years and I promise you that it will be the most comprehensive and detailed model to date.  Do you even realize that the only active CH-53Ds are in Hawaii?  William didn't even get to climb onto a SeaStallion until last year when I brought some to Az.  The man is working his heart out to bring the industry something special.  I recommend you wait like the rest of us and keep your negative opinions to yourself. 

Sorry Chief Owl but I gotta agree with Gino on this one.  I can understand when projects, production dates and show times get pushed back but it HAS been at least three years and all we've seen is some CG images.  Now they're nice CG images, but as far as I can tell it's no closer to a "hard product" than when we were first introduced to your project.  Which leads me to the second point.  And that is if you want our support on this, then show us or tell us about any updates.

Anybody planning on producing 1/48 scale and larger Helicopter models (especially those that have been hardly represented or not represented at all), is going to have my support and even future business.  But the Night Flight situation is kinda like Dodge saying "we're going to produce a revolutionary new 3/4 ton diesel pick-up", and then you don't hear or see anything from them for three years.  I mean what did you expect especially considering the current flow of larger scale Helo's finally coming out on the scene?  I vaguely remember you also talking about modern aircrew members too.  What happened to that?

Now if this puts me in dutch with your company for future business, I'll gladly take the round in the gut but certainly you can understand the frustration.

Oh....and I'm STILL pissed that nobody has the good sense to produce a non-Navy HH-3 line in 1/48 or 1/35.  I mean hell....everytime the subject is brought up on this forum, everyone seems to agree that it would be a great seller.

helimakr,

This site is NOT just for touchy feel good group hugs.  While you're correct that we normally support all modellers by offering advice, tips and information, we also give honest critiques on model producers, after market stuff, decals and every once in a while on each others work.  We even have a few laughs every now and then.  Your initial response to an honest reply from Gino actually goes a long way to prooving his point.

Did I mention that I'm still pissed about the lack of an HH-3?

SeaStallion,

I know you've already made two posts prior to the one in this thread but this old MSgt welcomes you to this woolly bag of no-account rotorheads.  I see you're curently in the land of sand, sun and Ninja Women so keep your scan up brother.  When you scheduled to rotate back to the land of Pineapple and sweet surf?  Somebody screwed up and they're actually sending me to a CSAR Conference at Hickam next month.  I lived right outside the gate at Kaneohe for 3 years (Kailua side) and am definately looking forward to hitting the beach. 

I'm out,  

If it isn't you above, I do appologize.  It sounded familiar though.  I will reply to your email.  Still stand by what I say above though.

Mr. Quintiliani,

I have no need to let other people post something for me. I also have no need to post under a different name.

I do however have several people I am in contact with that I provide with links to my work.

But I do feel the need to reply to you. An e-mail will be on the way to you shortly.

Great CG images.  Like I said, I'm not holding my breath.  Good luck on holding yours.  I will wait on a hard product that can be held before I give them credit for anything.  Glad you are happy with computer pics of supposed parts.  If it comes to fruition and proves me wrong, even better.  Some of the business practices of Night Flight have been a little less than professional as well, like their lack of answering emails and rudeness when answered, and poor customer service.  I was ready to put out some money on a pre-order a few years ago and was turned off by the smoke and mirrors and CG I had shoved at me and their inability to give an expected availability date. They can never show actual parts or progress.  Its just been too long for me. 

By the way, my messages are fully thought through before posting.  Why do we have to bow down to every "company" that says they are going to make something, especially when they have been saying it for years with nothing hard to show for it?  I tell things as I see them without pulling punches.  That is how I am.  Sorry if you don't like it.  No group hugs and singing Cumbaya here.

 

I also have a feeling we have spoken on this subject before, my friend, on here and/or HKN.  You under another name.  Pretty sure you are related to Night Flight.  Hmm, especially since your pics link back to the perpetually under-construction Night Flight website.  Mr. Beasely I presume, a.k.a. "Chief Owl"? Or one of his associates.

 

I’ve been a forum lurker for some time now…I’m overdue for a posting and now feel the need to do so.

 

Gino:  What gives with you and NighFlight? Do you have some childhood angst so deep that you feel the need to take your hostility out on this company? Has the owner of NightFlight done something to sabotage or offend you? Just based on what I’ve read, some of your messages are not thought through before they are posted. Forums like these are for support, feedback, technical information and the like; not for putting people down for not following through on ‘your’ expectations of what a company is to produce and manufacture. The methodology that NightFlight is using for design and future production is the most high tech, top notch approach to modeling. CGI smoke? I think not. I know first hand what NightFlight is working on, and the progress thus far. There are renderings and prototypes that you have not had the opportunity to see and judge for yourself. Here are a few links I found, just in case you’re interested: 

 

http://www.pavelow.net/mainrotor/MainRotor_hub_1e.jpg

http://www.pavelow.net/mainrotor/MainRotor_hub_2e.jpg 

http://www.pavelow.net/mainrotor/MainRotor_hub_3e.jpg

 

Good luck with your purchase from Trumpeter.

And as a note of interest there is a company designing a 1/35 CH-53D SeaStallion coming around late 07 or early 08.

 

If you are refering to Night Flight, you are really funny.  I wouldn't hold my breath.  It has been coming for over 3 years now.  I will only believe it when I see it.  I think theirs is just a big pipe dream.  Most likely, Trumpeter will come out with one long before they do.

The Squadron Signals Pub is good with lots of interior photos of 53's to help you out.  You can still get them as well.  Interior wise there wasn't much difference between the HH-53C and the CH-53A or D Slick.  The differences were exterior mostly.  HH's had rescue hoists like the RH-53D/CH-53E, aluminum aux tanks, refuel probe, wet head, and subtle differences with the sliding and folding rotary pylon covers.  You can find a ton of 53 pics around the website.  And as a note of interest there is a company designing a 1/35 CH-53D SeaStallion coming around late 07 or early 08.  Another note make sure that you use the pictures of the cloth bench style seats for your HH

 

Take Care

salbando wrote:

Please, please, please somebody produce a 1/48 scale HH-3E/CH-3E/HH-3F model!!!!!!!!

Preach on Brother 'bando!
(Sorry Jon, but you know I'd rather have a big Jolly Green Giant than a Cheyenne)

salbando wrote:

In the mean time check out this site.  http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/ Type in HH-3 and voila!

Also try searching for CH-3, Jolly Green Giant and HH-3E. You'll get a few different shots.

salbando wrote:

Please, please, please somebody produce a 1/48 scale HH-3E/CH-3E/HH-3F model!!!!!!!!

Completely agree on that, above all on the HH-3F part! And how about 1/35?!

Hey thanks for the tip. Good pics too.

Salbando,

Thanks for sharing the pictures!  Good stuff!

I used to buy all the In Action books but quit about 5 years ago.  I need to start getting the ones I'm really interested in again before they get scarce. 

Please, please, please somebody produce a 1/48 scale HH-3E/CH-3E/HH-3F model!!!!!!!!

In the mean time check out this site. 

http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/

Type in HH-3 and voila!

I've also got some H-3 pics I took at Merrill Field.  It's an Evergreen ex-HH-3F pelican but the interior shots are still pretty dang useful.

http://photos.kitmaker.net/showgallery.php/ppuser/6667/cat/500