CH-53E 1/48 (Super Stalion) ??/

                Thanks HA

               Yes and I can't wait,, I have one on order and paid for,,, I just didn't see Super Stalion

on any of the info about her. They mention Sea Stalion and Sea Dragon but no Sea Stalion.. thanks

for your replies The Best  Davey5

HeavyArty wrote:

CH-53Es are still in USMC service and still called Super Stallions.  Academy is releasing a 1/48 scale model of one soon.  Check down a couple posts to see it.

Gino's got it.  The CH-53e is the Super Stallion and the CH-53d is the Sea Stallion.  You can check here: http://www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/AVE?OpenView&Start=1&Count=1000&Expand=2#2 . Click under 'Aircraft - Rotary Wing'.

Jesse

The name has stayed, but it's never used in the Fleet Marine Forces.  It has a nickname that wouldn't be quite appropriate for this forum.  I don't know how to say it without offending our gracious hosts on the FSM forums, so I'm not going to try.  But the nickname is a synonim for toilet. 

I had never really heard the other name for a -53 until Chris posted it one time...we just called them "53s" or the Phrogs were "46s" but then, we were just cargo too, not the guys that worked on them daily...

There's nothing like hearing that roar and thumping blades as a pair of these beasts come in to the LZ to lift you out and back home.

Lemon,

The Marines are "in" the Department of the Navy, not a different department.  If Marines are "the men" then why can't they drive themselves?

IYAOYAS

Firehawk Ordie wrote:

Lemon, The Marines are "in" the Department of the Navy, not a different department.  If Marines are "the men" then why can't they drive themselves? IYAOYAS

If we did it all, then there'd be no need for the Navy.  Besides, it's nice to be chaffuered around from time to time...

We always called them -53's or -46's.  Never heard of the term "Phrog" until the release of the new model.  It's like the UH-1.  Nobody calls it the Iroquois, everyone just calls it a Huey.

Firehawk,

Don't even go there.  You never hear "Send in the NAVY..."  And why does Lemon call it the Men's Department?  Well, that can be explained by using the old World War II poster "Want to fight...Join the Marines"

Semper Fi, brothers.

Jesse

I kinda like to think the best marine is a Submarine...but before I rode the boats I was an engineman assigned to Riverine Force in Cam Rhan Bay RVN.. and I do know that without Navy Corpsman the Marines are in a world of Poop. And a Boat team of SEALs can do what it would take a Battalion of Jar Heads to accomplish.. I didn't start the cross service bashing here but hey the facts are the facts.

Go Navy..Hoo Yah

Well any Marine who would say they don't need the Navy is a darn fool.  LCAC's, corpsman, amphibious ships, medical, dental, chapel, supply, etc all come from the Navy.  I like the Navy and would never say anything bad about them.  I won't talk bad about any service, heck I served in two of them.  But each service has it distinct job; that's why there are four services.  Therefore, trying to compare two services or say one is better than the other is pointless.

Saying a boat team of Seals can do what it would take a battalion of Marines to accomplish is a ridiculous statement.  And how could you say this is a fact?  Could a Seal team defend a 1000 yard front.  Don't think so. Seals are special operation units, Marines are not.  That would be like saying any Marine Air Wing can do the job that the Air Force does.  I worked with a Seal team as part of the 15th MEU(Soc).  Personally, I wasn't too impressed.  I don't like sailors fighting on the land.  To be fair, I don't like Marines engaged in long land battles, that's the Army's job.  I thought the UDT's were great.  They had a job only the Navy could do.  But, I guess as times change, each service has to fight for a mission and thus all of these special operation units were formed.  Heck, even the Marines have formed there own - (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2006/20060224_4306.html ).  I think there is just too much redundancy in the military.

Jesse

Ahh Jessie I think that's a women in your "Mens Department Poster" LOL.

Now the SEALs have a saying. " When a Woman can do my Job I'll Quit"...

How many woman are in US Navy Submarines????. Now there is your real Mens Departments..

The USMC is really the Navy's Unisex Dept. LOL

Now we have really got the ladies angry I think I'll submerge and run silent now... Bye

I don't see it as service bashing (just some good-natured joking), but if you don't have some pride in your branch of service, then you shouldn't be wearing the uniform. 

I agree 100% with you Lemon Jello. Semper Fi Shipmate.. 

Actually I was drafted and joined the Navy, and never really liked it. I did like the Boats and all but never really liked being in the Navy. But I must admit that today I am proud of my service and have no regrets but I do find it a little amusing that I am defending the Navy's position here 30 years after I got out.. Hey most of my good shipmates at my local VFW were Mud Marines and I won't hold that against them Tee hee hee...If I did they would kick my Butt..Thank Goodness for the Corp.. otherwise they would be asking Sailors to do all that dirty work. We poke fun at each other all the time.. It's a forgone fact that the Navy and Marines will always argrue like the Brothers they are....they always did and will continue to do so long after we are all gone.

And I did overstate the Teams capabilities a little, but they are still regarded by most of the World's military organizations as the Best of the Best and the "standard" that all Specop organizations aspire to. Especially DevGru  SEALs who are the Teams 1st Team. ( Old Team 6) 

SEALs, fill a need that no other SpecOp outfit can, And that is their all weather all location insert and withdraw capabilities via Land, Sea, or Air and specialized training in covert ops. Unfortunitly it's a very small organization that is used in conjuction with CIA operations and Army SpecOps and Rangers. . Of course other Nations have similar outfits like the RN's SMS and Norway's Marine Jagers etc. But the US Military has only one outfit in that catagory.

And of course it's a Navy outfit, you know.."the real Men's Department"  LOL..

DBFSS385 wrote:

I agree 100% with you Lemon Jello. Semper Fi Shipmate..  Actually I was drafted and joined the Navy, and never really liked it. I did like the Boats and all but never really liked being in the Navy. But I must admit that today I am proud of my service and have no regrets but I do find it a little amusing that I am defending the Navy's position here 30 years after I got out.. Hey most of my good shipmates at my local VFW were Mud Marines and I won't hold that against them Tee hee hee...If I did they would kick my Butt..Thank Goodness for the Corp.. otherwise they would be asking Sailors to do all that dirty work. We poke fun at each other all the time.. It's a forgone fact that the Navy and Marines will always argrue like the Brothers they are....they always did and will continue to do so long after we are all gone. And I did overstate the Teams capabilities a little, but they are still regarded by most of the World's military organizations as the Best of the Best and the "standard" that all Specop organizations aspire to. Especially DevGru  SEALs who are the Teams 1st Team. ( Old Team 6)  SEALs, fill a need that no other SpecOp outfit can, And that is their all weather all location insert and withdraw capabilities via Land, Sea, or Air and specialized training in covert ops. Unfortunitly it's a very small organization that is used in conjuction with CIA operations and Army SpecOps and Rangers. . Of course other Nations have similar outfits like the RN's SMS and Norway's Marine Jagers etc. But the US Military has only one outfit in that catagory. And of course it's a Navy outfit, you know.."the real Men's Department"  LOL..

HOLD ON NOW! The SEAL's and MARINE  FORCE RECON do the same mission, so I do not know what you are talking about. I work with the SEALS and RECON boys all the time, so I know what they do.

 I have the Honor of being a Dad to a E7 (QMC SEAL).. Pardon me guys with all due respect Force Recon is not SEAL never was and never will be. My Son has operated with several units in Afganistan, Iraq, and Bosnia and Samalia years back. He is several times Decorated and Neil FiFi Roberts of Robert's Ridge fame was his swim buddy. As effective as Force Recon is they don't get half the training SEALs do And their  requirements are less than those that the Rangers require. There are hundreds of Force Recon Marines for every SEAL. I do know that SEALs have the greatest respect for Rangers and USAF Para Rescue as well as RN and RAN SMS and I have never heard him refer to Force Recon in the same catagory of SpecOp Operators..Force Recon is basicly Para Marines with some scuba training.and if a comparison is needed then a comparison to Army Airborne is in better order. Don';t tell a SEAL or a Army Ranger for that matter that a Recon Marine is the same. I would love to hear their response.

Goodness I do respect the Marines and all who serve but lets be real

DBFSS385 wrote:

I have the Honor of being a Dad to a E7 (QMC SEAL).. Pardon me guys with all due respect Force Recon is not SEAL never was and never will be. My Son has operated with several units in Afganistan, Iraq, and Bosnia and Samalia years back. He is several times Decorated and Neil FiFi Roberts of Robert's Ridge fame was his swim buddy. As effective as Force Recon is they don't get half the training SEALs do And their  requirements are less than those that the Rangers require. There are hundreds of Force Recon Marines for every SEAL. I do know that SEALs have the greatest respect for Rangers and USAF Para Rescue as well as RN and RAN SMS and I have never heard him refer to Force Recon in the same catagory of SpecOp Operators..Force Recon is basicly Para Marines with some scuba training.and if a comparison is needed then a comparison to Army Airborne is in better order. Don';t tell a SEAL or a Army Ranger for that matter that a Recon Marine is the same. I would love to hear their response. Goodness I do respect the Marines and all who serve but lets be real

I'm for real, I'm the one that takes all of the SPEC OP guys in and out. I know what they do and do not do. And for one ARMY RANGERS are not that bad @$$.

I'm not , keeping this pissing contest going any more. But what do I know I just work with them for the last 10 yrs. I do not know any thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to say that I went through Special Operations training as a Marine and served with a special operations unit in the gulf.  I also served three years in the Army as Light Infantry.

Your basic Marine (not infantry) is equivalent to an Army Infantry soldier.  Every non-infantry Marine must go through Marine Combat Training (MCT).  This course in 4 weeks long.  In the Army, every infantry soldier must go through Advanced Individual Training, for 2 weeks to become infantry trained.  Therefore, every Marine who transfers to the Army is automatically classed as a 11b  (Infantry).  I know this for a fact.  I was 11b and 12b in the Army.

An infantry Marine's training is (I think) 6 - 8 weeks.  Since I was infantry and I have worked with Rangers directly, I can say with full confidence that a Marine right out of SOI (School of Infantry) is as well trained as a soldier right out of Ranger school.

Also, be certain that you understand there are Battalion Recon Marines and Force Recon Marines.  Two different types.

Yeah, I did forget about Heartbreak Ridge.

I've also worked with Airborne and believe me, these guys are no where close to the abilities of Force Recon Marines.

I fully understand that macho guys don't want to be told others can do the same job as them.  It's a big ego problem.  I also realize that many people think they are the best, the toughest, the most trained etc.   

Seals, in my opinion, are a waste of money and resources.  The Navy was just upset because they didn't have a Special Operations capability, so they put one together.  They aren't needed.  Units from the Marines or the Army can accomplish any mission the Seals have.  It's the same with the Air Force and their Para Rescue teams.  They wanted a Special Operations capability too.  Heck, in Vietnam, when a pilot went down, the Air Force just sent in a helo to pick them up.  And remember, it was the Marines who rescued Scott O'Grady in Bosnia.

Finally, until recently, the Marines where never under SOCOM or where listed with SOCOM units. 

Jesse

Read this:

The problem is that SEALs are not properly trained in the
infantry skills, tactics, and techniques required to conduct
complex infantry-related operations of direct action and raids.
The lack of infantry skills were noted during the SEALs
participation in Operation Just Cause, and General Stiner
subsequently mandated that all SEAL officers attend the U.S. Army
Ranger School.  Additionally, the Navy Special Warfare Command is
requesting to send SEAL officers to the Marine Corps Infantry
Officers Course at The Basic School.31  The reason for this is
simple; the USSOCOM requires a maritime special operations team,
and the SEALs are the only players eligible for the draft.
General Stiner, Commander in Chief, U.S. Special Operations
Command recently stated that USSOCOM forces were involved in many

Comes from here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1993/LJB.htm

usmc1371 wrote:

I would like to say that I went through Special Operations training as a Marine and served with a special operations unit in the gulf.  I also served three years in the Army as Light Infantry. Your basic Marine (not infantry) is equivalent to an Army Infantry soldier.  Every non-infantry Marine must go through Marine Combat Training (MCT).  This course in 4 weeks long.  In the Army, every infantry soldier must go through Advanced Individual Training, for 2 weeks to become infantry trained.  Therefore, every Marine who transfers to the Army is automatically classed as a 11b  (Infantry).  I know this for a fact.  I was 11b and 12b in the Army. An infantry Marine's training is (I think) 6 - 8 weeks.  Since I was infantry and I have worked with Rangers directly, I can say with full confidence that a Marine right out of SOI (School of Infantry) is as well trained as a soldier right out of Ranger school. Also, be certain that you understand there are Battalion Recon Marines and Force Recon Marines.  Two different types. Yeah, I did forget about Heartbreak Ridge. I've also worked with Airborne and believe me, these guys are no where close to the abilities of Force Recon Marines. I fully understand that macho guys don't want to be told others can do the same job as them.  It's a big ego problem.  I also realize that many people think they are the best, the toughest, the most trained etc.    Seals, in my opinion, are a waste of money and resources.  The Navy was just upset because they didn't have a Special Operations capability, so they put one together.  They aren't needed.  Units from the Marines or the Army can accomplish any mission the Seals have.  It's the same with the Air Force and their Para Rescue teams.  They wanted a Special Operations capability too.  Heck, in Vietnam, when a pilot went down, the Air Force just sent in a helo to pick them up.  And remember, it was the Marines who rescued Scott O'Grady in Bosnia. Finally, until recently, the Marines where never under SOCOM or where listed with SOCOM units.  Jesse

FORCE RECON as of  April, is now part of SOCOM.

I'm sorry Staff Sgt and Lemon Jello you are correct this is getting rediculous.

I really didn't intend to be rude here either , You are for real just as I was in my day and I do respect your service.. Seriously.. and thank you . But I just got off the phone with my Good Chief and he usually doesn't like to talk about work but he said in his 16 years on the Teams ( Team 2 and DevGru ) He has never had a Marine Helo Insert and has never rode a Marine Helo. ( for the record he hasn't been aboard a Submarine either) His MOS is Winter Warfare and he is a Master Para. The US Armys 160th is his Taxi most times and occasionaly USN SH 60 birds for practice. But in all his Combat ops from Samalia to Iraq and Afgan it has been the 160th. While in Bosnia they rode anything that was availible but no Marine Birds there either He didn't say weather some Teams have rode USMC helos but he didn't rule out that possibility.. especially with the West Coast Teams ( 1,3,5,and 7) but he said more than likely not in a Combat insert. 

He also told me to grow up..and shut up. He too respects Force Recon & the Corp as a whole especially since 9/11 but like most of use Sailors he just likes the Navy more LOL. 

I didn;'t mean to ruffle feathers shipmate.. These past few years have grown long for his Mom and I and sometimes my pride overwhelms my better judgements..( for sure) I am sure your parents would agree.. Now where's my glue??

Semper Fi

Fraternally

Walt

SSgt after reading your full post I had to respond to some of your observations about SEALS, USAF Para Rescue, and Rangers.

It wasn't me who calls the SEALs the most Elite fighting unit in the world. It is their Battle record from UDT in WW2 and Korea.. Vietnam, Panama, Samalia, Haiti, Desert Storm, Iraq and Afgan  and many more places most will never know about.. I know few military people who would disagree with that title. Especially those who served with them in the heat.

Their title was earned several times over and they deserve it quite frankly. Nobody fills their billets as counter terrorist Comandos.. Small team ops in places no one would ever expect them. They are not infantry or paras like Force Recon.. They are Commandos trained in unconvential warfare in support of CIA and other Government interests on smaller but greater scales..This branch of the service is invaluable. This is why almost every Country in the world has a similar elite small unit in it's military force.

For an outfit that is smaller than most  Average sized city FireDepartments they have won more than their share of CMHs NCs Silver Stars and etc. What they accomplished in this War on Terror  will be subject matter for stories for years to come when they become declassified. Most of their greatest moments are kept secret for obvious security reasons. My Son was in Afgan 8 days after 9/11.... boots on the ground runnin and gunnin.. He's been back 2 times and 3 times to Iraq. He never talks about it. His decorations tell much of the story with no words needed, as well as his 16 Teammates that were lost there. I knew Fifi Roberts and he was not a braggard I have never met a SEAL Braggard.. I have heard a lot about of SEAL wanna bees, but that's to be expected... I do believe there is a lot of inter service jealousy of the teams and I can't blame them.. They get the most $$ for reenlistments to the best and newest equipment and are generally treated much better by the politicians who have the purse strings..They are also paid pretty well and have great bennies etc.. But then again much more is expected from these "Braggards" when the poop hits the fan somewhere, anywhere in the world.. I really had to say that I don't know who or where you got your lowly opinion of the Teams, Rangers and Para Rescue  but I will bet it wasn't in the Field with them or surely not in a firefight with them. Their collective performance in co-operation with the Army's 160th is really something else, and I look forward to the day that their storys can be told it will make Marchinko's books read like fairy tails..

Maybe your experience was with the Navy's Special Boat Teams.They do much amphib work with Force Recon.. They are not SEALs and neither is Force Recon.

    Man -O Man   Ya think we got a little off subject there?  I must add .... that yes  the 160 th  are

the elite transporters of the Spec-ops... Those pilots do some serious training,,,, 14 hour straight no stop flights.. Bad wheather....Low low level  night flights... Night vission only flights...  all the above     refuling.   I think you have to have all kinds of hours and high rank to even talk about joining the 160..... The couple of friends that I have from spec ops say they were the deliver,,,ers  and retrivers that they worked with most..      What ever Thank God there are guys that choose to do that job ... For all our As# es///////////////   Thanks to all Vets COOKS ---To ----- GENERALS

                                                                         Davey5

Please understand that at no time have I ever said anything bad about the other services. I have as much respect for an admin clerk as I do a Green Beret.  If a service member wants my respect, they just need to accomplish their mission.  I don't care if its collecting intel or doing the laundry - just get your job done.  As the Marines say "Mission accomplishment is the first priority".

I've always been turned off by elite-ism.  It's my Marine nature.  The Marine Corps avoids elite-ism which is part of the reason they disbanded the Raiders and did not want to join the USSOCOM.  Also, if you notice, Marines don't wear any unit patches.  A Marine is a Marine is a Marine.  Any of my brothers would back me up on this.

My thoughts on disbanding the Seals is not because they can't do the job.  Of course they can.  I just think they are redundant.  Kind of like having the B-52, B-1B and B-2.  There's a little redundancy there.

Finally, if you noticed in my posts, I have never said the Corps was better than any other service.  The easiest way to start a fight between services is to compare one to the other.  Really, how can you compare other services to each other.  That would like comparing a car, a plane and boat to each other.  It's stupid.

Tell you son good luck and get back on the boat, sailor .

Jesse

Man I didn't mean for this tread to go side ways.  I just wanted to rib Lemon yellow a little.  I'm glad everyone's cool.  I have to agree with USMC1371 everyone in the military has an important job. 

I work on Navy HH-60H helos for HCS-5, we have been in Iraq for 3 years and fly with the 160th all the time.  We have transported, inserted and extracted SEALs, Army SOF guys, Marines, Polish SF, and Iraqi troops.  All those guys are great at what they do. We operated from San Diego, we train with SEALs all the time and even with Air Force PJs out at Nellis AFB.

My squadron is a direct descendent of  the Seawolves.  HCS-5 stood up when HAL-5 and HC-9 we merged to form one squadron to specialize in CSAR and Naval Special Warfare.

DBFSS385 wrote:

SSgt after reading your full post I had to respond to some of your observations about SEALS, USAF Para Rescue, and Rangers. It wasn't me who calls the SEALs the most Elite fighting unit in the world. It is their Battle record from UDT in WW2 and Korea.. Vietnam, Panama, Samalia, Haiti, Desert Storm, Iraq and Afgan  and many more places most will never know about.. I know few military people who would disagree with that title. Especially those who served with them in the heat. Their title was earned several times over and they deserve it quite frankly. Nobody fills their billets as counter terrorist Comandos.. Small team ops in places no one would ever expect them. They are not infantry or paras like Force Recon.. They are Commandos trained in unconvential warfare in support of CIA and other Government interests on smaller but greater scales..This branch of the service is invaluable. This is why almost every Country in the world has a similar elite small unit in it's military force. For an outfit that is smaller than most  Average sized city FireDepartments they have won more than their share of CMHs NCs Silver Stars and etc. What they accomplished in this War on Terror  will be subject matter for stories for years to come when they become declassified. Most of their greatest moments are kept secret for obvious security reasons. My Son was in Afgan 8 days after 9/11.... boots on the ground runnin and gunnin.. He's been back 2 times and 3 times to Iraq. He never talks about it. His decorations tell much of the story with no words needed, as well as his 16 Teammates that were lost there. I knew Fifi Roberts and he was not a braggard I have never met a SEAL Braggard.. I have heard a lot about of SEAL wanna bees, but that's to be expected... I do believe there is a lot of inter service jealousy of the teams and I can't blame them.. They get the most $$ for reenlistments to the best and newest equipment and are generally treated much better by the politicians who have the purse strings..They are also paid pretty well and have great bennies etc.. But then again much more is expected from these "Braggards" when the poop hits the fan somewhere, anywhere in the world.. I really had to say that I don't know who or where you got your lowly opinion of the Teams, Rangers and Para Rescue  but I will bet it wasn't in the Field with them or surely not in a firefight with them. Their collective performance in co-operation with the Army's 160th is really something else, and I look forward to the day that their storys can be told it will make Marchinko's books read like fairy tails.. Maybe your experience was with the Navy's Special Boat Teams.They do much amphib work with Force Recon.. They are not SEALs and neither is Force Recon.

I did not bash the SEALS, I did not bash any one. I just said that the Rangers are not that bad @$$, as in SPEC OPS, that do the same thing that Marine Grunts do. I like the SEALS, and FORCE RECON guys. I work with them all the time. I do not know about your son, or who he flys with, but we fly SEALS and RECON guys all the time. Hell the 1st night of the war I took SAS guys in. I was with HMM-268, We crash the Phrog that killed all of the Brits. But I never worked with the Air Force PJ's,  but I have talked to them.

 I just think that Rangers are not SPEC OPS, they are just a crack GUNT unit Like the Marines