AH-64 in grey, picts anyone?

I'm currently waiting for pics from the unit.  My buddy is back in Charleston this weekend and hopefully will get me the hi-res shots we need to finish a new decal sheet I'm working on with a certain manufacturer. 

So far, 94-0332 is the only one that's gotten "publicity".  I've got tail numbers for three others that'll be included in the sheet, along with some interesting markings variations.  Nice mix of green and gray components.  Just got my 1-151st "Nightmare" patch too.  I may yet transfer from PA to SC!

This is one of em. 

and another shot of 332

Jon,
   Are they going to be able to keep the gray next time through the paint shop?  We heard a number of rumors concerning the origin of the paint job and one of them suggested that there were some upset people in the upper reaches of the food chain.

Mac

Screaminhelo wrote:

Jon,    Are they going to be able to keep the gray next time through the paint shop?  We heard a number of rumors concerning the origin of the paint job and one of them suggested that there were some upset people in the upper reaches of the food chain. Mac

Ooooh-rah!

Mac,

From what I hear from the unit, LTC McKee made the decision to paint them gray after considerable research and effort.  He received a tentative go-ahead and he went with it.  They're going to keep them gray as long as they're allowed to.  In fact, I've already started a movement in PA to do the same to our birds.  Don't know how far it'll go, but with the shots I have and the 20 second video clip of them in action I've got, its a pretty convincing argument.  Those grays blend in to the sky so perfectly its scary.  I've heard lots of rumblings about gray becoming more prevalent, but nothing else. 

On the flip side, I did speak with a CW4 here who wanted to know why Apaches were painted like Marine aircraft.  No imagination. 

From what I've seen, the gray scheme received a lot of praise and worked really well.  I'm hoping we'll see more in the future.

Jon

One thing I know changing colors while in ops is confusion. I was flying T-33's  when they were changed from NMF w/dayglow red tip tanks to two tone gray similar to the apache. There were seasoned pilots loosing sight of a/c in the pattern! One student pilot cut off another a/c as he lost sight on an overcast day. He was removed from flight status immediatly. Tower had the same problems too. Our procedures were changed to ones similar to hornets. At half mile, one could barely make out the a/c. at two to three miles, if you took your eye off it, you lost it. It was no problem per say at altitude on a sunny day. Low level and overcast, showed why camo works. I can see use in that paint scheem for the apache. Overcast day, your flying 200'agl in the desert, the 'target' can hear you, but can't see you.

Thanks for sharing. Let us know it goes Jon. Good luck!

Drew

Hey guys,

Ok, here's my first attempt at a 1-151st bird.  I used the IsraDecal sheet, which was the best settling decals I've ever used. Unfortunately, the markings for 94-0332 are incomplete and don't include the eye for the sharkmouth, the crescent moon with the SC palmetto and the national insignia font is wrong.  Still, it looks pretty good so far. I still have quite a bit of detail painting to do on this bird, but its coming along well.  Enjoy!

The Marine Corps has painted its birds for about (if not longer) a decade now, what took the Army so long to figure out it works better than attempting to hide green in the sky?

Of course, the doctrine doesn't work on our current battlefield, and we're not hiding from anyone above us anymore.  And most of our birds are STILL green....

Thanks, no hard feelings.

Jon

Jon,
   The 151st bird is looking good!  I really think the Apache looks good in gray.  In the day (especially below 150' in the desert)  gray works really well.  The constant haze that makes the transition from ground to sky a gradual blending of color is a simiar hue.  At night gray doesn't seem to work as well though.  I remember one night when a 151st Apache was in the pattern with one of our Hawks and the 64 was very easy to find.  I'll still go with gray though, it seems to be the best of both worlds and if your enemy has NVGs, gray will be much harder to see with goggles.

Mac

Mac,

I've been wondering about that.  I've heard a few veteran -64 guys say that its cool and all, but their first concern was "how does it work at night"?  I'm hoping to talk with LTC McKee about his research and maybe do a little on my own to see what'd be the most effective for our birds before we go overseas.  It may go nowhere, but then again....

I agree, I think gray is definitely the way to go.

Jon,
   Considering current operations, gray is good.  The marine pattern works well because it works well in the daytime and that is when most of your flying is done right now.  Trying to find a pattern that will work equally well day or night would be rather hard unless you went with pink with yellow polka dots (it would stick out like a sore thumb day or night).  Untill they develop mission adaptive paint, we will have to plan for when we are most vulnerable, day, and camoflage based on that and that is where gray is the best.
   I'm thinking that a combination of gray and brown would be a good idea.  Even mixing to match the haze that is the horizon.  I know that browns work well at night and grays work well in the day.  The problem is that where one is good the other is not so good.  Just an idea to play with.

Mac

Trigger wrote:

...I wonder how an overall 36440 (Flat Gull Gray) would work?

36440 is close to what I have in mind.  Maybe a 2 color scheme (MARPAT?) with a slightly darker shade.

Mac

Good point Trigger, maybe stay with the standard Marine pattern or use a version of the AF desert pattern using  36306/36440.

Mac

Trigger wrote:

Mac The 36440/36306 combo is intesting (Jon - I'm adding this to the potentials list I'm going to try out), but I'm not quite sure I'm on the exact same page as you when you refer to the AF desert pattern. Are you talking about the tan Pave Hawks from March/April 2003 or the MH-60G/MH-53Js from ODS?

Either one would do.  ODS is three color?  I haven't considered a third color but I think that you would be getting into a shade that would stand out too much either against sky or dirt.  I'll have to play with colors to see what I like.

BTW, how do you get the colors to link?

Mac

I'm liking the 306/440 combo.  It may just work!  440 on the undersurfaces and sides, 306 on the uppersurfaces.  I think 3 color may be making it too busy (although the Israelis seem to have some success with it).  I've heard a few rumors lately of other units trying gray schemes. Nothing that I've proven as fact, but I've heard a couple rumors.  Will keep digging to see what I can find.  Interestingly, the Gray birds were brought up in class yesterday, much to the delight of my roommate (a SC guy) and me!

Jon

I am starting to think of something along the lines of the current Marine pattern but shading each color slightly, esentially creating a four color pattern.  I know that it could turn out to have a major yuck factor but part of me thinks it will work.

Thanks for the info Trigger, maybe I can get it to work and look as cool as you on here.

Mac