Medical mechanics in vietnam?

Pharaoh,

Ok, I'm going on information from a specific incident, so this may have varied considerably throughout Vietnam. On 24 May 1970, Medevac 2 of the 15th Med Bn, 1st Cav div was downed. SFC Louis Rocco was a medic advisor with the 9th ARVN Airborne Brigade and was aboard the chopper along with the door gunner, crew chief, pilot and copilot, AND an additional medic. Rocco, who had been thrown clear when the bird went down, managed to get back to the wreckage, found the door gunner dead, but rescued the remaining four men, set up a defensive perimeter and waited out the night, all with a broken hip and wrist! The next morning 229th AHB slicks, covered by the entire 2/20 Aerial Rocket Artillery mounted a rescue operation the following morning. Rocco was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions.

So in brief, from what I know, they carried an additional medic on board, and sometimes even two! Sadly Louis Rocco succumbed to a long battle with cancer this past year.

Pharaoh,
As Jon describes, you can imagine just about any situation can and will occur in an emergency and combat situation. For the most part, crews, equipment and procedures varied, not only from unit to unit but also from the the start of ops until the end of the war. However, by the end of the war it was pretty common for each Medevac crew (USARMY) to consist of a pilot, co-pilot, crew chief and medic. The CC would cross train the medic to help with inspections and maintenance on the a/c and the medic would cross train the CC to help him with the wounded if needed during the return flight to the medical facility. It also became common for pilots to give their crew chiefs enough 'stick time' to ensure the CC could fly the a/c home if both pilots were wounded and could not fly. This was not officially sanctioned but was considered good insurance by the crews. Due to the Geneva Convention, medical evacuation helicopters were prevented from being armed with anything except the crew's personal weapons. As a result, I don't know of any medevac ships that flew with door guns ... with the exception of the 101st AirBorne Division as a demonstration of common sense over political supidity ... as the VC / NVA were not supposed to fire on them either! But remember, any slick ... or even gun ship could be a medevac ship if time was short.
Hope this helps
67N20's rule! (UH-1 Mechanic MOS)
Paul

Paul,

Very cool! I must make one observation, though. Post 1966, 99% of the medevac birds I've seen shots of have door guns. The rationale was "they're to protect the patients", kinda like medics in the field carrying personal weapons I've got a bunch of shots of 1st Cav Division (15th Medical Battalion) Dustoff Hueys with door guns.

One interesting note, though... I don't remember ever seeing a short-cabin medevac bird with door guns. They were a rarity, but they did exist!

i think it depends more on what u wanting to build. i have a friend her dad is mia in nam and he was flyin in a hh-53 super jolly green and he was a door gunner cant remember which side but the handle all rescue and ran the guns but they also had another bird flyin higher for support of the rescue and that helped the rescue bird treat whoever they was rescuing

I thank you for all your input. I was a combat medic in the USARMY for about 5 years. Most of that time in a mechanized infantry unit. The general "rule" for medics is no "offensive" weapons. We were issued a personal sidearm(9mm beretta) and that was it. Our Nco's and CC would instruct us in a battle situation if you are being fired upon and there is a weapon on the ground next to you feel free to use it for "self defence". That is NOT a direct order however. The Geneva Convention prohibits medical personel from being a combatant. I understand that in Vietnam the "red cross" was often a bullseye and some rules were broken or bent. Thats why I was looking for different opinions from the group as a whole. Once your a infantry medic you are always a MEDIC. Its one of those wierd bonds you pick up in your life. Besides.. Medics have won more Medals of Honor than any other MOS in military history. "Watch my back, I'll save yours" that was our motto and I live by it still today.

CSMRETUS
welcome to the forum, see the Community Assitance fourm for info on how to post photo's
Pharoah
Haven't seen you around for awhile, how are you doing?

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSMRETUS NEED M-60's QUOTE: Huey Medevac Helicopter Model Die-cast metal model Huey Helicopter, The scale is 1:48. For the adult collector. I find this model to be a Gunless aircraft They did take the guns back off in 1972 How do i find 2 guns to refit this 1:48 Scale model? Any Suggestions? THE OLD FLIGHT PLATOON SGT

Personally, I would get an actual 1/48 UH-1D model and add guns to it if needed. I find all the diecast models to be mere toys with weak details and poor markings, etc. The old Esci UH-1D MedEvac model was great. I believe it has been reissued by Italeri over the years as well. Not really sure of others available since 1/48th isn't my scale, but I'm sure there are others out there.

Apparently Italeri now has the old Esci UH-1D in Carbinieri markings. Would be easy to get/make US markings for it.


Edit: Upon further digging, the above kit appears not to be a reissue of the old Esci one, but new tooling. Maybe they took the Esci molds and updated them. It also has markings for a US Army helo in the kit as well.
A review, with pics, from HeliKit News: http://www.helikitnews.com/issues/hkn151.htm

It also looks like the same molds that were scaled-up to make the 1/35 Panda UH-1Ds and UH-1Ns. Edit.

If you must have the diecast and want some M60's for it, Minicraft/Academy's 1/48 UH-60L comes with descent M60D door guns that would work.

Hey Pharoah! Good to see you back!
Here are a couple of 1/48 'Vietnam' GIB figure sets that I have found. As a matter of fact. They are the ONLY ones I have been able to find! There are probably more but, I haven't found them yet.
http://propaganda.kompany.free.fr/photos_148/481126%20US%20Viet%20Crews%20seated%201.htm
http://propaganda.kompany.free.fr/photos_148/481127%20US%20Viet%20Crews%20seated%202.htm
Here are a couple for 'Modern' GIBs from the same company.
http://propaganda.kompany.free.fr/photos_148/481124%20US%20Mod%20Crews%20seated%201.htm
http://propaganda.kompany.free.fr/photos_148/481125%20US%20Mod%20Crews%20seated%202.htm
Sorry there are no prices. I'll have to take a little more time to peruse their website.

You now, Ive heard alot about medics and thier only having weapons for "defensive" purposes only... but I can attest to seeing medics carrying M-4's and M-16's in combat, and did any one else see the CNN video of the medic that took a sniper round center mass in his body armor, get knocked on his rear end, get up, check himself for mortal wounds then chase down the sucker with an F that shot him, shoot that guy in return, then provide medical assistance to the same guy?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Awood23 You now, Ive heard alot about medics and thier only having weapons for "defensive" purposes only... but I can attest to seeing medics carrying M-4's and M-16's in combat, and did any one else see the CNN video of the medic that took a sniper round center mass in his body armor, get knocked on his rear end, get up, check himself for mortal wounds then chase down the sucker with an F that shot him, shoot that guy in return, then provide medical assistance to the same guy?

Yes, medics carry M4/ M16, etc. as self defense weapons. No where does it say they can only carry pistols. This is a misconception that people have. The idea is that the medic is not an infantryman and as such, is not supposed to engage the enemy unless his life is threatened. His primary job is to care for the wounded and protect himself and his patients from attack. I would definitely say that medic who took the sniper shot, amazing video by the way, had his life threatened and he was defending himslef by hunting down and shooting the bastard who took a shot at him.

Hey CSMRETUS, Id love to see the pics you tried to post but all I see is the dreaded red x's. I tried to pull them up using the url and it looks like you tried to post them straight from your hard drive? you know you have to have them posted on photo hosting site that allows you to link them right? ie photobucket?

during Hospital Corpsman school our training manual had a section on the carrying of weapons... (Hospital Corpsman = Combat Medic (91B I believe))

According to the sources it was against the Geneva Convention and was expressly forbidden except for a side arm to protect the patient..

THAT said in FMF school (Fleet Marine Force, advanced battlfield medicine, infantry tactics and amphib ops) the first words out of the chiefs and gunneys mouths were to ditch the arm bands with the red cross and grab the first weapon of the first dead guy we came on... then we were to use it to "defend ourselves" meaning we were part of the unit... until a casualty needed our attention...

To get closer to topic, my cousin was a Marine gunner on a CH-34 in Viet Nam and flew lots of medevac missions as door gunner... he had a long talk with me on the wisdom of becoming a "doc" right before I went in... so yeah, the choppers had gunners (this was circa 1969) not definitive on the Hueys's but if one had it I imagine the others did...

Hi there,
Try this website for 1/48 helicrews
http://propaganda.kompany.free.fr/
It was off an earlier forum thread. I've looked at it and they produce some interesting figure positions of both pilots and soldiers sitting in the back plus door gunners for both 'Nam era and modern to use in Hueys or Blackhawks.
Regards, Rich