Rebirth of "Guns A Go-Go"

Trigger wrote:

There is however going to be the "North Georgia Car and Air Show" 21/22 Oct at the Albert Whitted Airport in Rome. I'll probably go to that one since Rome is only an hour away. Let me if you're going to be there.

We will have an aircraft there but I won't be there my self I have to stay home and watch my two little CEs in training.  There will only be a couple of pilots there so feel free to stump the chumps.  I may try to go up there for a little while with the kids but that is questionable as well.  If the Tail# is 012 be sure to OOH and AAH over the Sacred Cow.  It is an '04 and you will probably be interested in seeing the new style drip pan.  It is only just now starting to get oil stained but the paint is still pretty fresh, compared to the rest of them anyway.

Mac

Screaminhelo wrote:

I think that possibility exists for any of the CSAR-X contenders.  In my mind the CV-22 is not going to be as flexible in service as the big Shoulder Rank People want them to be.

Yeah, you've got a good point there. Word out of NM is, even though the pilots love the CV-22, it makes a conventional helicopter's brown-outs look like a clear sunny day and it has some difficulty in hot/high conditions. You're right that any one of the three could do that - I just limited myself to the Chinook 'cause that's the horse I want to see win and would best be suited to replace the -53s (short of the CH-53K)

Screaminhelo wrote:

Hey Trigger, Dallas is quite the metropolis isn't it?  BTW, is there going to be an airshow in your neck of the woods soon?  I think we are going to have one of ours up there somewhere in a week or two. Mac

Dallas looked like a pretty nice suburb of a major city from what I saw. I'm not aware of any airshows here in the Nooga this year. Ours typically run every other year, this being an off year. They did move 'em from late spring to 29/30 Oct of last year. There is however going to be the "North Georgia Car and Air Show" 21/22 Oct at the Albert Whitted Airport in Rome.
I'll probably go to that one since Rome is only an hour away. Let me if you're going to be there.

Trigger wrote:

....Hell, if Boeing does win and plays their cards right by keeping that line open, they might could pick up some additional orders if AFSOC realizes the CV-22 isn't the end-all-be-all solution.

I think that possibility exists for any of the CSAR-X contenders.  In my mind the CV-22 is not going to be as flexible in service as the big Shoulder Rank People want them to be. 

Hey Trigger,
Dallas is quite the metropolis isn't it?  BTW, is there going to be an airshow in your neck of the woods soon?  I think we are going to have one of ours up there somewhere in a week or two.

Mac

salbando wrote:

Trigger, Yeah, November is what they're NOW saying.  We'll see if that date doesn't slip again. Concerning Space Command and site support birds, we've heard a few different things.  It's really hard to imagine them using Chinooks in that role...really overkill both with respect to capability and support funding.  Something that gets continually mentioned is the possibilty of a mixed fleet.  Maybe HH-71s and HH-47Gs?  Maybe HH-92s and HH-47s?  Hell....they might even consider Huey IIs for Space Command. General Moseley really does have USAF CSARs back on this one and is a huge supporter.  That's what we have going for us.  Hopefully we won't be screwed (again) by the fighter mafia at ACC, especially considering the current cuts to funding and manpower that are to be implemented over the next few years.  Those dudes with the pointy noses really do like their F-22/F-35 and no stickin egg-beater is gonna hold that up....at least that's their outlook. Oh yeah, they could also give Space Command the "pick of the litter" of the HH-60Gs being replaced...mainly these would be the newer airframes (lower time) in the Air Guard.  Space Command doesn't fly near the hours or put their airframes through the punishment that we do, so they'd last longer.

When I read that Space Command wanted in on the action, they cited their participation in the Katrina rescue efforts (made sense, I saw footage of Euro1 UH-1Ns running around down there too), so the first thing I thought of too was shuffling low-time and SLEP'd Pave Hawks to them (and AMC as well). But Jon keeps saying I'm being too logical and reasonable and that'll never happen. Those two commands coming into the mix has me worried; funding a mixed fleet would be harder than for a single type and yeah, I don't see -47s flying around Missouri and Kansas doing silo support. I can't help but wonder how different things would be if CSAR was still under AFSOC's flag instead of ACC (at least the fighter mafia's influence would be diminished). I will say that some good news is that the price per Raptor is dropping, but don't ask me about the F-35 'cause I don't know what's going on with it right now.

Hell, if Boeing does win and plays their cards right by keeping that line open, they might could pick up some additional orders if AFSOC realizes the CV-22 isn't the end-all-be-all solution.

Iemember reading that the AF did pick up a few Huey II's for trainers. And Sal, bet their poiny-nose's wouldn't be so stuck up if the where on the ground with bad guy's closing in on them waiting for you to come pull their fat out of the fire. Hope the 47 gets the nod.

Trigger,

Yeah, November is what they're NOW saying.  We'll see if that date doesn't slip again.

Concerning Space Command and site support birds, we've heard a few different things.  It's really hard to imagine them using Chinooks in that role...really overkill both with respect to capability and support funding.  Something that gets continually mentioned is the possibilty of a mixed fleet.  Maybe HH-71s and HH-47Gs?  Maybe HH-92s and HH-47s?  Hell....they might even consider Huey IIs for Space Command.

General Moseley really does have USAF CSARs back on this one and is a huge supporter.  That's what we have going for us.  Hopefully we won't be screwed (again) by the fighter mafia at ACC, especially considering the current cuts to funding and manpower that are to be implemented over the next few years.  Those dudes with the pointy noses really do like their F-22/F-35 and no stickin egg-beater is gonna hold that up....at least that's their outlook.

Oh yeah, they could also give Space Command the "pick of the litter" of the HH-60Gs being replaced...mainly these would be the newer airframes (lower time) in the Air Guard.  Space Command doesn't fly near the hours or put their airframes through the punishment that we do, so they'd last longer.  

Sal

As I understand it, a decision on CSAR-X is due next month. Aside from the fighter mafia, I'm also worried about what influence AMC and USAF Space Command will have on this now that they're in the mix on this too.

Mac

I got to drive through downtown Dallas last week on my way to a wedding in Hiram/Marietta. Nice little town you've got there! Oh yeah, and the annual regatta here is Nov 4.

oldhooker wrote:

If anyone gets the opportunity to visit the "Easy Money" display at Redstone, take note of all the bullethole patches on her fuselage, for they are many.... and a now silent testimony of the hell those ships went through!

Definately a battle tested design, and they're building NEW ones now!  Like Sal said, the good definately outweighs the bad for CSAR-X and the bad really isn't that much of a problem, the -47 is easily self-deployable.  Even a Blackhawk baby like myself has to stop and admit that there is an aircraft almost as good as the Hawk

Frank
You and your Vietnam bretheren have made the job much easier for those that have followed.  Y'all were the real pioneers in helicopter warfare.  Bringing Guns A Go-Go back is a fitting tribute.  You may be surprised to see how little things have changed over the years.  Bungee cords and tin cans are still as useful on an M-60 as they were then.  You helped to develop the collective knowledge the is still the foundation for staying alive in combat today and for that I thank you brother.

Mac

Yes Sal....

Leaping for joy pretty much describes the reaction felt amongst the Go-Go Veterans when it was learned the old namesake was being reactivated!       At the 5th Reunion of Guns A Go-Go, in May, the CO & XO of A/4/160th, along with their FE's, came to participate in the official "changing of the guard" ceremony.     http://gunsagogo.org/0018/aindex.htm

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Plus from what i've seen and heard (back me up on this Frank) she can take a pretty good beating.

(Below) "Easy Money", just before departing on the mission to support troops that had been ambushed on Hwy 13, in the middle of a rubber plantation near Can Tho....

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"Easy Money" at the end of that day.....   note the gaping hole in the cabin, seen through the open CE door!     

An interesting story surrounds that shoot-down:  Gunner Mike Gagere was manning the #1 position (front left) and had shot at least three sappers attempting to rush the aircraft....  he said all of sudden it felt like somebody hit him in the chest with a hammer and he recoiled back onto the 40mm ammo box in a seated position.     "I saw light coming through a new hole just above the edge of my ammo bag, I didn't want to look down because I was afraid of what I would see... I realized I had been hit.    I prayed and was waiting to loose consciousness, but I wasn't even feeling dizzy, so I got back hold of the .50 and begin shooting some more!"      "About that time, an Army APC had backed up to the rear of the helicopter in an attempt to evacuated the crew, and as I recovered my .50 and turned to make my way to the ramp, I looked up through the large hole on the cabin and saw a VietCong hand grenade in the air about 10ft outside the hole."   "I dropped the .50, reached up and caught the damn thing as it came through the hole, and threw it right back out.... I fell on my face and heard it explode outside."     "I looked back up and became mezmerized at the sunbeams though the smoke from the shrapnel holes."   "When we got out of there a medic asked if anyone was hit and I raised my hand... but forunately, my chest protector had stopped the 7.62 round/!

The PIC on that mission was Doc Holloway (seen in the first picture).... as he was shutting down the aircraft after they were on the ground, he was shot in the side of his right foot.    When he was getting out of the Chinook, he saw the soldier that was manning the .50 on the APC get hit, so he crawled on top the thing, and while standing on one foot, kept blasting away on the .50!

But you know what the ironic part of  the "taking hits" story was?    None of the FE's or CE's ever remember taking a hit ON one of the armor plates anywhere on the ship during the life of the Go-Go's!

If anyone gets the opportunity to visit the "Easy Money" display at Redstone, take note of all the bullethole patches on her fuselage, for they are many.... and a now silent testimony of the hell those ships went through!

Take care,

Frank

 

Yeah, I'm with ya Mac.  As I wrote earlier, most of the guys in the squadron are voting for the HH-47G.  Deployability is a factor, but it just means we'll need a few more C-17s or C-5s.  As I already said, noise is not a huge deal.  Given the tactics we use, it won't be a big deal (in my opinion).  Plus she'll have lot's more power at high altitudes here in Alaska (and elsewhere) compared to our HH-60Gs and that's WITHOUT having to dump a ton o gas and gear prior to making the recovery.

Still, I wouldn't be too hurt if the HH-71 is selected.  I can't believe I'm saying that given that it would be the first time in a long while that a Sikorsky bird wasn't doing USAF CSAR.

Did I mention I am a loyal HH-3E fan?

Sal
I am no -47 guy, and it really pains me to say this but the sh&*hook is one heck of a tough bird.  It was battle proven 40 years ago and they decided they could build them stronger, better, faster than ever before.  I am looking foreward to seeing Gs rolling off the line.

As far as noise is concerned, when have you ever seen a QUIET helicopter.  Hey, I know that noise can be reduced thus a reduced detection time but you still know that a whirley bird is on its way.  I think an HH-47G would be an outstanding CSAR platform.  If the USAF decides to keep a few HH-60s and put them on a diet, and I'm sure that the 53s will stay around for a while, they will have the capability to get pick up anybody, anywhere, any time.  Just be careful stuffing the 47s in a C-5, you will have to take one or two parts off to do that.

Mac