This just made me laugh.

Gotta love good old eBay "Pro-Built" items.  The part that is worse is that someone has bid $285 for it.  A sucker is born every day.

Hi,

I was wondering what you were on about until I saw the ramp as well....oh dear. Ruins an otherwise very good model. Obviously didn't do much research. I spotted the exhaust marks behind the vent grill on top of the front head as well, again shouldn't be there - it's just a vent if memory serves right.

Having worked on UK Chinooks the RBF flags look to be in some odd places for me as well, although that may just be the difference in servicing schedules. I am certain that there should be some on the pitot heads though.

 

Paul 

<>Well.  here is a funny fact and something to think about guys. 

<> <>If you've ever seen the helicopter company display models unassembled, the old plastic ones that went for $100-$400.  I think you may start to scratch your head and begin to think for a moment.  

<> I currently have in my possesion, Bell Helicopter company models unassembled.  The 1/30th 206/206L models.  Right off the bat, I have to say Revells 1/32 206/OH-58 is far more realistic, detailed and out right nicer.  The Bell company models are plain, dull, window masked and decaled half to death.  When they made the 206L's, they used the 206 body.  Bell sold those models for $300-$400 through Louis Bull.

<> I also have an old Hughes OH-6A comapny model.  It's primered and partially assembled.  I would almost compare it to the horrible 1/24th Hobbycraft 500D.  The same, window masked and dull.  AGAIN, Revells 1/32 OH-6a is far realistic, detailed and nicer.  Agreed?
<>I've seen the 1/30th Kaman Seasprites, 1/40th Boeing CH-46s (& CH-47) , 1/40th Sikorsky S-61s, comapny models and they are just as bad.  The Bell huey line was made interchangeable.  Nose, body and engine fuslage.   Again, dull and plain, window masked, window painted, window decaled, decaled half to death.  <>The 222's and 214STs were nothing but a plastic shell with decaled windows and stripes.  They sold for $200-$400 by the aircraft companies under "professionally built models".  Yah, right.

The only models I've seen that look half ways desent are the Aerospatiale/Eurocopter comapny models.  1/30th Astar, Twin Star, Dauphin.  Those are nice!  Yes, they are window masked and decaled half to death too.  But they are true to scale and detailed far better inside and out.

<><> Sadly, the company that used to make these went under back in Janurary.  They were just 8 blocks from my house.  I know everything that went into making them.  Helicopters, jets, airplanes,  rockets, everything.  Talk about mark up!  Making them was a no-brainer.   Required no skill.  The owner, who I've know for years and am still in contact from time to time;  He told me he had to close his doors because everyone would rather have the "wood" models and he can't compete with them.   And what does a block of painted wood go for these days?  $60-$300.  Give or take?<>

<>So stop and siit back for a moment and look at what you're paying for.  Hmmm?!?!?! 

 

Now Gino, I know what a kick but job you do on models and several other folks here too.  I'm sorry but I think the models you guys do are far more "professional" models than what the company models offered/offer.  I've been told my models are better than comapny models and I know you guys do better work, WAY BETTER work than I do.  I can only imagine what some would be willing to bid on yours.  Hmmmmm?!?!?!?

 

Ask yourself.  Who's the real sucker?  The one who's stupid enough to pay $60-300 for a piece of solid, shaped, painted wood or plain, masked, decaled model?  Or someone who pays for a highly detailed interior/exterior, true to scale, painted/decaled model.<> Oh yah, what do companies charge for "custom" models?  Tack on another $GOUGE $100-$200 give or take.  

<>Woudn't you say that the seller is on the something here.  What if you posted a "professionally built model"?

If you guys want pictures of the company model, I'll be more than happy to post some.  Any way.  Food for thought. 

<> 

Hope all is well, cheers.

John 

 

 

John, thanks for the vote of confidence.  I personally won't put my stuff on eBay.  It just rubs me wrong for the same reasons as most of the "Pro-Built" stuff there does.  Most of it is incorrect and looks so-so at best.    Most are also mass produced in shops in Asia and they have no idea what they are building either, as the above shows.  I would rather custom build them for someone and charge them a fair price, as opposed to getting the most I can out of them.  I don't do it as a business, just to get a few extra bucks to help support a hobby I enjoy.

viper_mp wrote:

Pro Built 1/35 CH-47D On ebay, there is a "Pro Built" 1/35 CH-47D Chinook.  Ok.  so I started scrolling through the MANY pictures.  And the guy is good.  I would have actually agreed that it was pro built....  UNTIL I saw the rear ramp.  Even a newbie, who did the simplest google search, would have caught on that the upper clam door slides into the lower ramp when it opens.  This guy followed the directions.  Pitty too.  Its otherwise a pretty good model.

 

It does look like the guy did a good job but as you pointed out he doesn't know much about Chinooks, I never saw a D model painted that shade of green and besides the ramp "tounge" there are also the RBF flags on the missle proximity sensors on the aft pylon and at the collective drains...

This is total fantasy, the only places you'll see RBF flags are on the pitot tube covers, engine intake and exhaust covers, rotor head covers, heater intake and exhaust covers and nose enclosures.

 In regards to the ramp tounge...in all fairness the instructions show it built this way...

 I blame the confusing instruction sheet.

 

Jonathan Primm

Youngsville, LA

Jonathan,

I was wondering about those RBF tags and never saw them there before.   Thanks for your input.  Hey, did you make the Lafayette Model Show last weekend?  I was at work offshore. 

Jon,

You prove my point even further.  If one is a so called professional, hence "Pro-Built", you would think they would take the time to do a little research and build it correctly.  I don't blame the instructions at all, I fully blame the so called Pro-Builder.  It only takes a little research to get it right.  He can apparently build and finish a model nicely, just no concern for accuracy.  More evidence that he is just a hack who is only pumping out kits for money on eBay.

HeavyArty wrote:

Jon, You prove my point even further.  If one is a so called professional, hence "Pro-Built", you would think they would take the time to do a little research and build it correctly.  I don't blame the instructions at all, I fully blame the so called Pro-Builder.  It only takes a little research to get it right.  He can apparently build and finish a model nicely, just no concern for accuracy.  More evidence that he is just a hack who is only pumping out kits for money on eBay.

His interior is good, It looks like he used the Eduard troop seats and belts which really enhance the model. The stretcher layout is kind of interesting... He made a good stab at trying to depict the hydraulic lines on the right and left sides of the ramp area so I have to give him points on that.

Cobra Co is supposed to coming up with the lower part of the aft transmission and APU, which will go a long way in fixing some of the short comings of this kit.

 

Even when I used to build on commision, I never charged that much

Most people know less about Chinooks then the guy who built this model, more then likley including whoever buys it.

 I don't think those few inaccuracies are all that important. If you are heavily into accuracy you'r proably already building models and thus not intrested in buying finished kits.

 My conclusion, it is pro, the price is good, but it's not a master quality model. If he's (or a company) making these to be sold for a porfit i'd say they are doing a very good job, and the inaccuracies where proably noticed but it would take too much time to correct and time costs money, a lot of money. I've seen a lot less sold for a lot more, whoever buys this will more then likley be happy whith what they get.

I guess we consider accuracy at different levels and what makes one a "pro".   Why put all the effort into the PE seats and interior plumbing and not get the rest right? 

The fixes would not take that long.  How long to pop off the upper cargo door?  Oh, 2 seconds.  Also, the RBF tags would have only taken a second or two to put on the proper spots too.  Same goes for painting it the proper color of Helo Drab Green as opposed to OD.

 The price is crazy for an innacurate model to me too.  More reason not to sell on Ebay.  To each their own. 

HeavyArty wrote:

The fixes would not take that long.  How long to pop off the upper cargo door?  Oh, 2 seconds.  Also, the RBF tags would have only taken a second or two to put on the proper spots too.  Same goes for painting it the proper color of Helo Drab Green as opposed to OD.

 Shows just how much i know about Chinooks. I would say the extra detail was put on to make it a lot more intresting to look at, and if the fixes are as easy as say then yea... he should have done a little homework on it. But overall the skill put into the model is impressive, not the research.

 And as i said, if you really pick up on these details and are really into chopers, you proably have one sitting on your shelf already, or in a box in da closet.

HeavyArty wrote:

....  Same goes for painting it the proper color of Helo Drab Green as opposed to OD.

There may have been Chinooks painted that color but none that I was ever around, the older paint jobs on the As and Cs I saw had more of a brown than green tint to them.

And what's up with the funky HF antenna? Looks like supports for a major structural member with all the bracing that's been added. But again, I could be wrong maybe the "towel rack" looks like that now.

Is the ramp area screwed up?...Yes
HF antenna wrong?...Haven't paid alot of attention to HF on 47s lately but it looks kind of right.
Color wrong?...Maybe not.  Some batches of CARC paint weather to a very OD color rather than kind of gray especially if aircraft soap is not thoroghly rinsed off every time.

Overall, I don't think that the kit is worth the Pro Built price.  Many of the people who would buy this know what the aircraft sould look like and will notice something like the ramp.  The litters may be noticed by some.  My point is this,  If you are going to charge such a price the subject should be thoroughly researched and accurate.  Most of the people who would pay such a price are aviation buffs who think that they don't have the time/skill to build the model them selves. 

Mac

 

One thing that I absolutely can not stand about that.... aside from the obvious, is the fact that the rotor blades look like something out of a comic book. Look at any D model out on the line. The blades are a lot more rigid than that. The blades will droop when the PTU's are off, however, they don't generally bend like that. They droop from the horizontal hinge pin not from blade flex.Another thing.... I couldn't pull up the pix on ebay, but in the pic that I did see THERE WERE NO BLADE ROPES! Even the new crew dogs know better than that. The color of the aircraft as with anything in the army is always negotiable. The second you crank the P there will be a leak somewhere that will alter the color of the paint. At the next 50 hr insp when the a/c get a bath the color will change again. When the a/c get a battle damage repair.... guess what another color.  Feild repairs always match the original color? Not so much. All in All not to shabby, the price was a little steep...... somebody paid it? It has already been established that we probably would not have paid that, but I am sure someone is more than happy with it.                            JOSH

Gino,

 

I hear ya and agree.  I don't gouge anyone either.  I pretty much just recoop my cost, like you said, to support the hobby you enjoy.  I sometimes do a barter.  Those are fun.

 

<>The one thing I appreciate are the true model builders you and the rest of the gang here are.  Just the technical conversation you all sparked and the marture, professional manner at which you discuss it.  I love it! That's what modeling is all about.  It reminds me of the good old days when I was a little rug-rat.    I miss the good old days.  Clearly it is here!

 

REV1

<>A good reason to call yourselves "professional model builders."

Piazzai Model 1/50th U.S. Army MH-47E sells for $148 in itallian currency.  

 

Piazzai Model 1/50th U.S. Army CH-47D for $117  in Italian currency.

 

So tell me. 

Why the big price difference?  

Is it really an E or D? 

What's wrong?

Could you do better?

Discuss.   ;-) 

 

 

Cheers,

John 

<>

A lot of things are very inaccurate on both. The biggest thing that stands out at me ..... look at the cockpit. I have not seen a 47 yet that has a grey interior with RED seat cushions. The interiors are always black, seats black or grey. The thing you have to remember with any peice of army equipment is that "field expidience" will always dictate......... thank you GWOT! So generally speaking  if anyone is modeling a piece of equipment from any of the last five major U.S. conflicts if the color is close it is good enough. Because paint can change like underwear around here, the point is unless you have the exact same lighting, fading, damage, etc the color will be slightly off. As far as the 47 goes strakes on the pylons/ fuel cells? refueling boom on the MH? The blades on the D model look like c model blades. I am sure there aresome other minor details that might be askew, but they are neat models anyway.                                 josh

HOOK DRIVER wrote:

A lot of things are very inaccurate on both. The biggest thing that stands out at me ..... look at the cockpit. I have not seen a 47 yet that has a grey interior with RED seat cushions. The interiors are always black, seats black or grey. The thing you have to remember with any peice of army equipment is that "field expidience" will always dictate......... thank you GWOT! So generally speaking  if anyone is modeling a piece of equipment from any of the last five major U.S. conflicts if the color is close it is good enough. Because paint can change like underwear around here, the point is unless you have the exact same lighting, fading, damage, etc the color will be slightly off. As far as the 47 goes strakes on the pylons/ fuel cells? refueling boom on the MH? The blades on the D model look like c model blades. I am sure there aresome other minor details that might be askew, but they are neat models anyway.                                 josh

 Actually, CH-47s DID have grey interiors and red seat cushions....Of course this was before the days of NVGs, and before the mods for using them were installed so it may be before your time.

In the mid to late 80s  the D models we recieved in exhange for the C models came through the conversion process with RED seat cushions and gray cockpits, as a matter of fact I never saw anything other than red seat cushions until I started crewing MH-47Ds just prior to Desert Storm.

Paint? yes it changes and yes whatever is at hand will be used and if a dedicated crewmember happens to inherit an aircraft from some moron who didn't know how to mix aircraft soap then the paint job will look like crap and will continue to look like crap until the aircraft can be repainted.

As far as the blades, besides having a wider chord (and being significantly heavier), FRBs are distinguishable from metal blades in that the root of the trailing edge tapers at an angle rather than being being perpindicular, so I'd say they got the blades rigth, sort of.

Here are a couple of examples of the C model I crewed equipped with FRBs.

 

But you are correct, the first aircraft depicted looks like a 234 with OD paint rather than anything used by the U.S. Army. The second one is a little more accurate

This is a good point you raise. It is kind like like my daughter and the internet.... I guess I never will know the Hook without goggles. All of the seats I have ever seen were grey or black, or some shade in between....depending on how the flight went. The aircraft wash problem will remain until the world stops spinning. Another thing I noticed, where is the thrust lever. The armor is missing from the seats.The inlets have no screens,and so on,and so on. Still neat models.      

JOSH