ch-46e vs. ch-47

bud156 wrote:

can anyone tell me the difference between these two?

The Mustang and the Pinto both have 4 wheels and are made by Ford, so they should be interchangeable, right? Not so. The differences between the 46 and the 47 are night and day. Sure, they both are Boeing products that have tandem rotor designs, but the similarities end there. The Chinook is (with a few Air Force exceptions) strictly an Army bird. The Sea Knight, on the other hand, belongs to the Department of the Navy. The differences in the airframes and how each service employs them are simply too numerous to list.

 

bud156 wrote:

Hey everyone! I just got an academy ch-46e for christmas, I'm going to use it for a diorama. It will be my first attempt at a helicopter and a diorama. My reference photos for the diorama shows a ch-47, can anyone tell me the difference between these two? I imagine there are a multitude of differences, and subbing a 46e for a 47 will be totally inappropriate, but oh well... Also, any tips on building a helicopter/diorama would be much appreciated. I usually stick to cars but an interesting picture motivated me to branch out. Thanks for all the helpful info! Mike

It depends on what your diorama is going to depict. If you leave enough space for a CH-47 you will definitely have enough for a CH-46. I crewed both and while there are differences in the size and shape of the two aircraft, there were many situations that I found myself in that were similiar, especially when operating in the field from unimproved areas. Ship board ops are another matter. I spent a bunch of time aboard LPHs while crewing '46s but only a limited amount of time on LPHs and LHAs when I was crewing MH-47s. If you want a run down on specific differences between the two types and how they should be portrayed, email me off line and I will be happy to run through them for you. Jonathan Primm Youngsville, LA

The 46 is much smaller.  It's considered a medium lift helicopter.  The 47 is a big boy.  It's considered a heavy. 

The CH-46E is operated by the Marine Corps.  The CH-46D was operated by the Marine Corps, but is now only used by the Navy. The MC is in the process of retiring all of it's CH-46E's, and the Navy's CH-46D's are probably all replaced by H-60's. 

The Various versions of the CH-47 are operated mainly by the Army, but the Air Force has some speciallized CH-47/MH-47's. 

The CH-46 Sea Night and the CH-47 Chinook are about as different as a Pinto and a Mustang.  It may not be appropriate to replace one with the other, but don't forget the cardinal rule, Build your model your way. 

Semper Fi,

Chris 

ridleusmc wrote:

The 46 is much smaller.  It's considered a medium lift helicopter.  The 47 is a big boy.  It's considered a heavy.  The CH-46E is operated by the Marine Corps.  The CH-46D was operated by the Marine Corps, but is now only used by the Navy. The MC is in the process of retiring all of it's CH-46E's, and the Navy's CH-46D's are probably all replaced by H-60's.  The Various versions of the CH-47 are operated mainly by the Army, but the Air Force has some speciallized CH-47/MH-47's.  The CH-46 Sea Night and the CH-47 Chinook are about as different as a Pinto and a Mustang.  It may not be appropriate to replace one with the other, but don't forget the cardinal rule, Build your model your way.  Semper Fi, Chris

Actually. CH-47s ARE considered medium lift helicopters. When considering the cross section, CH-47s are wider and taller than CH-46s (both internally and externally) but length wise the difference is not as much. Where the big differences come into play is the difference in payload capability between the two aircraft as well as powerplant differences. CH-46Es were equipped with GE-T-58-16 engines which I believe were rated at 1770 shp, whereas CH-47Ds with Lycoming T-55-L-714s produce a maximum of about 4200 shp (continuous)each. The CH-46 Ds and Fs that I crewed were somewhat less powerful than the CH-46Es, but had greater range, which was addressed with the addition of the larger fuel pods. CH-46D and Fs were equipped with GE-T-58-10 engines rated at 1400 shp each. Maximum external loads were 10,000 lbs on CH-46s and about three times as much on the CH-47Ds that I crewed. Having worked on and flown in both types I can tell you that the differences are there but I'd have to say it would be more accurate to say the differences between the two aircraft are about as great as the diffences between an HH-3E and CH-53D. rather than comparing a "Pinto to a Mustang". HTH Jonathan Primm Youngsville, LA

As stated above, they are vastly different aircraft.  Here is a page that compares the two.  CH-46 vs. CH-47

Wow guys, Thanks for all the information. It was very helpful! My diorama is going to be based off a pic I found from the 10th Mt. Division where a ch-47 is unloading troops onto a roof in afghanistan where the front of the helicopter is still in the air and the back is on the roof. It sounds like if I depict marines instead of army soldiers I could make it realistic. Thanks again, I'll post the pics when I get it finished, but who knows when that'll be.

bud156 wrote:

Wow guys, Thanks for all the information. It was very helpful! My diorama is going to be based off a pic I found from the 10th Mt. Division where a ch-47 is unloading troops onto a roof in afghanistan where the front of the helicopter is still in the air and the back is on the roof. It sounds like if I depict marines instead of army soldiers I could make it realistic. Thanks again, I'll post the pics when I get it finished, but who knows when that'll be.

 

Yep, we can do that too in a Phrog. But I do not know of any Squadrons doing it in Iraq, but yes we can do it.

bud156 wrote:

Wow guys, Thanks for all the information. It was very helpful! My diorama is going to be based off a pic I found from the 10th Mt. Division where a ch-47 is unloading troops onto a roof in afghanistan where the front of the helicopter is still in the air and the back is on the roof. It sounds like if I depict marines instead of army soldiers I could make it realistic. Thanks again, I'll post the pics when I get it finished, but who knows when that'll be.

Yep, standard practice when I crewed both. The procedure is called a "pinnacle landing"

I am surprised this has been over-looked, but the reason the CH-46 is better is simple...

...IT'S A MARINE BIRD!

And the CH-47, well ...us army...

Just kidding, just kidding!

happy NewYear!

Kurt

 

Last question....maybe.... Can anyone point me to some info on an active marine group in afghanistan that might be doing landings like this so I can get markings right? I asked my bro(a marine) but he didn't know because he's learning arabic right now at the Defense Language institute. Again, I really appreciate all of your information!
Mike

In 2004, HMM-266, the Fighting Griffins, participated in Operation Mountain Storm in Afghanistan. Their tailcode is 'ES', with their squadron logo next to it.

(edit, this pic is from Iraq, 2005)

 

bud156 wrote:

Last question....maybe.... Can anyone point me to some info on an active marine group in afghanistan that might be doing landings like this so I can get markings right? I asked my bro(a marine) but he didn't know because he's learning arabic right now at the Defense Language institute. Again, I really appreciate all of your information! Mike

 

Phrogs, did not fly that much in Afgan. The Alt is to high, but HMM-163 was the 1st Squadron to go in to Afghanistan.

SSgtD6152 wrote:

Phrogs, did not fly that much in Afgan. The Alt is to high, but HMM-163 was the 1st Squadron to go in to Afghanistan.

As I stated, HMM-266 was a operational player during their deployment to Afghanistan. I know that the -53's and -47s are preferred because of the altitude, but -46's have certainly seen their share of flight hours there. Additionally, HMM-263 was part of the 26th MEU in late 2001 -- they also participated in the initial invasion.

 

AH1Wsnake wrote:

SSgtD6152 wrote: Phrogs, did not fly that much in Afgan. The Alt is to high, but HMM-163 was the 1st Squadron to go in to Afghanistan. As I stated, HMM-266 was a operational player during their deployment to Afghanistan. I know that the -53's and -47s are preferred because of the altitude, but -46's have certainly seen their share of flight hours there. Additionally, HMM-263 was part of the 26th MEU in late 2001 -- they also participated in the initial invasion.

 

Yep, I was not calling b.s. on you are any thing. We did fly in Afgan, we just did not play like we do in Iraq.

Ok, I think I have all the info I need for the diorama part, any tips on weighting the back end of the helicopter so I can more easily glue it to the building?I don't think just glueing the back wheels will properly support the whole model. I'm thinking of using some kind of clay with some fishing weights imbedded and then forming it into the sponsons and/or the empty space just below the rear rotor. Also, I'm thinking of motorizing the rotors, any thoughts? Once again, I can't thank you all enough for your help, I really appreciate it.

The 1/48 CH-46 is a big bird with a lot of plastic. Just gluing the rear wheels down certainly won't hold it level, even if you weight down the rear ramp. In fact, the landing gear would probably collapse under the strain even if you got the glue to work.

I would think about using steel rod or coathanger wire anchored into your building, and then running it up through the tail-ramp, continuing up through the length of the model, under the floor.