Vietnam Huey

Good luck on restoring the real one.

For the record for anyone else still watching this forum, I found an article in the VN Helo. Crewmembers Assoc Journal stating that after I left my unit, in late 1970-71, the Ghostriders of C Co/227AHB, 1st Air Cav "...had many of our H-models sporting miniguns on the left and .50 calibers on the right.  The inspiration for this configuration was the Nighthawk ship... the CO indulged our weapons choices, even though the 1st Aviation Brigade management did not especially care for a slick company to be armed in this unauthorized way..."  The US was unilaterally pulling out of Vietnam and the diminishing number of guys that were left wanted to increase their odds of coming home.  Some of these guns were simply hooked up to the pintle mounts that were there for the M60s!

Which comes back to one of my Murphy's Laws of Modeling:  Never Say Never!!

Howie 

Howie,

  Good to hear from you, man!  I'll definitely be on the lookout for pics of some of those upgunned CAV slicks.  If you run across any, please post them here.  I, for one, would love to see 'em.  My two mantras regarding Vietnam: "Never say Never" and "Never forget!"

     Ray
 

Dear Skypirate1,

And to all of you good guys who have posted a reply here.  I don't know if it's proper etiquette to add another response to this superb collection at such a late date, however, I have only recently come across this post, so please forgive me.

I'd like to add a comment concerning the use of a C-ration can as a feed guide for the M-60.  I personally used this arrangement and found it to be both simple and satisfactory.  One post I saw referred to a "used" C-ration can.  Anyone who used a "used" C-ration can, ie. a can that had been opened, quickly found out that the can squeezed shut and became out-of-round almost immediately following the first few rounds fired.  This was a "number ten" event.

In selecting a can to use, my personal favorite was "ham & limas."  This is because by using "ham & limas," nobody was likely to remove the can and eat the contents.  Ask anyone who's broken open a fresh case of C's, which meal was the last one taken from the case?  Ham & Limas!

By the way, did anyone else ever use the three prong flash suppressor from the early M-16 to twist open the wire that held the C-ration cases closed?

Tom,   A Co. 25th Aviation Bn (1967) and A Btry. 4/77th ARA (1969)

Responses welcome anytime, please feel free to add any you have.

PS: Call me weird, but I liked Ham and Lima Beans

Tom

"welcome home" and welcome to this forum.  And yep, the C-rat can had to be intact.

Grandadjohn - you LIKED Ham and Lima Beans?  I wouldn't call you weird:  Dinky Dao is more like it!!

Howie 'clear right' C/227 1st Air Cav 1969-70 DG

Howie Belkin wrote:

Tom "welcome home" and welcome to this forum.  And yep, the C-rat can had to be intact. Grandadjohn - you LIKED Ham and Lima Beans?  I wouldn't call you weird:  Dinky Dao is more like it!! Howie 'clear right' C/227 1st Air Cav 1969-70 DG

Must have had a warped childhood. The one I hated was Ham and Eggs, only good hot and with tons of anything to kill the taste

Tom,

  Thanks for your service, sir!  Welcome to the forum.  I had always heard peaches were the best, but i can sure see how Ham and lima Beans would be better!  You wouldn't happen to have any scanned photos of helicopters you could post woudl you?  We'd love to see anything you have.  

     Ray

Thanks for the welcome guys.

Tom S.

Tom,

   I was talking to my dad the other day and he used a can of Speghetti on his 60.  He said it lasted most of his tour and was worn down to bare metal. He was gonna bring it home but some little Vietnamese kid stole it just before he left!  I woulda liked to have had that can just for the history it represented.  I guess he should have used Ham and limas, huh?!

     Ray

Hey everyone, I am working on a project in which we are building a "slightly smaller than full size" huey uh-1b and i am baffled as to what the bottom of the skid looks like.  From the pictures ive seen so far it appears that there is something bolted to the bottom of the tube for non-slip, but i need a photo of what it looks like.  Do any of you have photos or know of any that would reference this?  Thanks much for your help.

-Nate

Nate,

  Welcome to the forum!  You are referring to the skid shoes that were replaceable thin metal pads which covered the underside of the skids to prevent the actual skid from being damaged when in contact with the ground.  I'll get you some pic up later tonight.

      Ray

here are the pics I promised.  This is a UH-1B at Ft. Rucker's US Army Aviation Museum.  you can see the skid shoe bolted to the bottom of the skid.

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Hey thanks for the quick response, all you guys are great with all this huey knowledge! I hate to be the picky one, but do you happen to have a picture of the underside of the skid showing the shoe?  It appears to be a rectangular metal plate that is just screwed onto the skid, with small 'bumpouts' where the screws are.  does it have any texture on it at all or is it smooth?

One more question...we are specifically reproducing a huey from the film Apocalypse Now, and I know that films arent always historically accurate, but the heli in the film had an antenna mounted along the length of the tailboom, in a zigzag pattern...stood off of the tail boom about 4-5 inches or so.  Do you know the background on this antenna as to who used it and what models in was mostly used on.  And pictures would be great too.  Thanks so much for all your help!

 -nate

icandrawem2 wrote:

Hey thanks for the quick response, all you guys are great with all this huey knowledge! I hate to be the picky one, but do you happen to have a picture of the underside of the skid showing the shoe?  It appears to be a rectangular metal plate that is just screwed onto the skid, with small 'bumpouts' where the screws are.  does it have any texture on it at all or is it smooth? One more question...we are specifically reproducing a huey from the film Apocalypse Now, and I know that films arent always historically accurate, but the heli in the film had an antenna mounted along the length of the tailboom, in a zigzag pattern...stood off of the tail boom about 4-5 inches or so.  Do you know the background on this antenna as to who used it and what models in was mostly used on.  And pictures would be great too.  Thanks so much for all your help!  -nate

Nate,

  First off, if your making a Huey from the movie, you don't want to be building a B model. The movie only used UH-1D/H models.  The B was the short bodied Huey used primarily as a gunship while the D/H model was almost exclusively a troop transport.  Among the hundreds of innacuracies in the movie, the Hueys errors were particularly egregious. Lemme know if you want to know or if you just want to build what's in the movie.  Personally, I think skid shoes  are the least of your concern. The antenna on the tailboom is a "long line" HF antenna. They ran down both sides of the tailboom to the stinger (tail skid).  They were not that prevalent on Hueys in Vietnam and my guess is they were used in the movie because they "looked cool."  However, I have seen them on Army and Marine Hueys in Vietnam photos.

Here's a pic of US Army UH-1D's with HF longline antennas. You can see that one bird does not have them.  I believe they were more prevalent on US ARmy Hueys early in the war.

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Here is the illustration from the organizational maintenance manual showing the skid shoe and it's attchments to the skid.

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In my opinion, your real conundrum is whether you want to be "accurate" to the movie or accurate to the real aircraft that served in Vietnam.  Let us know.  Hope that helps.

     Ray

I knew that they used the Ds and Hs in the movie, but unfortunately we are working under the direction of an outside designer who pretty much says what goes...and B model he wanted...I am really detail oriented and in anything I do I always strive for historical or cultural accuracy when possible.  Im in the themed entertainment business and its really important to me that if we are replicating something, that its done to the highest cailber, but unfortunately in this case we are just the fabricators :( So basically im making a huey from the movie that isnt from the movie if that makes any sense!  I have learned more than I thought I ever cared to know about these birds in the past few weeks, but its really interesting and amazing to find such knowledgeable people.

About the antenna, I had a feeling it was just something they added for coolness because ive searched and searched for what it was used for and primarily by what branch but couldnt turn anything up.  Then i found you guys.

The project is very unique to say the least, and when we are done and its open to the public i will post some pictures of it in place.  Basically we are taking the huey and scaling it down to about 70% full size, then we are only building the right half of it since its mounting on a wall, and the tail boom will also be terminating into a wall so the tailrotor wont even be there(not that it would be there since its on the left side).  We also are having to scale down the rotormast (which will be built from scratch) and rotors so after all that, itll basically just have the general shape of a huey and thats about it.  AND we had to flatten it due to space constraints so from the center to the widest part of the body is only 24"...Trust me if it would have been full size we would have purchased one! The sad thing is after all this tedious research and painstaking detail, that the majority of the tourists will be none the wiser, and most of those wont even know its from a movie...but im rambling...

Thanks again Ray for your insight so far and if i have any more questions i know where to come.

 -nate

Those maintenance manuals are great for reference, do you have more of those online somewhere?

The Huey's used in that movie where from the Philippine Army since the US Army didn't like the movie and would not support it

EDIT

That antenne was for a radio in that Huey, not just because it looked "cool". Not all Huey's carried the HF radio

2/12

Sorry to be adding comments a little late but hopefully this may still be of value.  I was with C Co, 227 AHB 1^st Air Cav but left at the end of Jan 1970.  FYI Joseph Osborn of  fireball@josephosborn.org has Huey decal sheets in 1/72 to 1/32 scale that includes my "Nevada Gambler" which includes our Co insignia of a green circle with a yellow lightning bolt going through it.  This appeared on the nose, and two forward doors.  You could replace the circle with a triangle, or a square or a diamond using the lightning bolts, to make an A, B or D Co/227 helo.  The decals include the 1^st Cav insignia for the tail, and extra serial numbers so you can make practically any Helo you want.   MicroScale (later Super Scale) Decals also did a decal of my Nevada Gambler.  Joseph will make custom decals as well.

Right now C/227 doesn't have a website up but one of our key guys has a Company newsletter going and you can contact him to contact C/227 vets:  Shelledad@aol.com.  The VN Helicopter Crewman Association is at

http://www.vhcma.org/, where I think a link to the 229^th can be found..   A/227 is   http://a227ahb.org/Homepage.html   and B/227 is http://www.masher.org/  .  I hope those help you out.

Welcome back into modeling!

clear right

Howie

Hello Nate,

welcome to our forum.   It looks like you've been in good hands with Ray, and I am glad to hear that the US Army didn't like the film Apocalypse Now - my sentiments exactly!  If you're building a B model Huey you might want to get a copy of the WALK AROUND UH-1 HUEY GUNSHIPS Walk Around no. 36 published by Squadron/Signal Publications mmd@squadron.com.  It has just about all the detail photos you would want from the rotor down and inside the cockpit and cargo compartments.  There are also photos of that zig-zag radio antennae.  The main difference is that these were the shorter B gunship versions while the movie used the troop carrier D/H models armed with just an M-60 on each side but you stated that was out of your hands.  Hope this helps you.  Can you tell us where this theme park model will be hanging?

Clear right

Howie

Hello Skidd!

That Squadron Walk Around book shows US Army Bs, Marine Es and USAF Ns with that antennae.  I didn't check any books on D/Hs but none of my company's D/Hs had it when I was there.

clear right

Howie

grandadjohn wrote:

The Huey's used in that movie where from the Philippine Army since the US Army didn't like the movie and would not support it   EDIT That antenne was for a radio in that Huey, not just because it looked "cool". Not all Huey's carried the HF radio

Grandad,

  Wasn't trying to imply that the longline HF antenna had no real function, just that they probably used em in the movie caused they looked good. However, knowing now that they were Philippine Hueys, I guess they could have just come that way.  I assume that the Philippines also had a fair number of OH-6's as well considering the "attack" sequence.  I'd kill for a movie that accuartely portrayed a real CA.  They were dangerous and unpredictable enough without any Hollywood embelishment!

      Ray

So do I just need to send an email to that address telling whomever that I need a copy of the walkaround #36?  I cant really say too much about the project at the time, but its not going in a theme park, but a restaurant/bar.  I will definitely fill you guys in with some finished photos.  Thanks again for all your help!

nate

Nate,

  You get the e-mail I sent?  get in touch and I'll hook you up with all the B model stuff you need.

     Ray

Nate

if you need more info than Ray is sending you, then go for the book, it's only $15.26.  There's a chance you could get it on Amazon or elsewhere but if you go straight to the source at their website http://www.squadron.com/Search.asp or the book itself at http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=SS5536 or you can call them 24/7 at 1-877-414-0434 ... email them at mailorder@squadron.com  it's Stock No: SS5536 "UH-1 Huey Gunships Walk Around".  I stand corrected re "restaurant/bar"!  If you'll have a finished sketch or something before you get too deep into the project, and post it here for us to give you our two cents BEFORE you've spent a lot of time and money (and it's too late for changes), it might help you produce a Huey as "correct" as you wanted to attain.  True, the average customer wouldn't know or appreciate it - but surely any veteran Huey crew would look up this restaurant/bar if ever in the neighborhood and spot anything that's "out of synch."  Good luck!

clear right,

Howie

Howie, here is a basic elevation of what we are doing.  You will have to bear with the inaccuracies of the rendering, this is strictly for schematics, and you can get an idea of what all will be visible.  Keep in mind that only half of the bird will be built as it is mounted onto the wall.  It rests atop of a pile of sandbags as you can see.  Thanks!

It's going to be awesome! 

Howie

I agree, looks great.  Now you just know that showing us that is going to open a lot of critical examination of the subject matter.

LOL... it will all be for the better of course.  ;)

Here is an interesting article about the sale of one of the surfboards that was supposedly used in the film.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060119/news_1c19surf.html

For as much research i have done on this movie, I have seen that article, but have also read that Renny Yater produced 90 of those replicas for sale a few years back.  According to some other things Ive read, Robert Duvall owns one of the actual movie boards, and so does Francis Ford Coppola (I heard it was on display at one of his winerys) I dont know how many were used in the film, but its possible that there are others out there.  Anyways, back to the subject at hand...

Still cranking away at this thing gathering all the minute details to help "sell it" so to speak.  Ray has been such a great help i couldnt have asked for a better Huey guru to help me out, no offense to all you other gurus out there! We are definitely going with a bravo model as I stated earlier, despite the Ds from the film...

..and in light of Veterans Day, I want to thank all the veterans as well as active men and women in our military.  Your dedication is invaluable.  Thank you.

I'd like to second Nate's sentiments and say a big THANK YOU to all the veterans!  God Bless You all.

   Ray