Panda 1/35 to UH-1D specs and questions

Gino,

  I got a 6 day old son and I'm moving in 5 weeks to Auburn, Alabama.  Not much time to build, I'm afraid!

     Ray

Gino,

  Yeah, I know I obssess a little too much over the details.  I'm just glad you pointed me to the HA(L)-3 aircraft list so that showed that C's and M's were definitely in the inventory.  That's why I love this forum, we all help each other out as best we can.  Now if I could just get time to BUILD one!

    Ray

PS:  I counted and 50 were UH-1B's, 16 were C/M's, 4 HH-1K's and 8 UH-1L's

  I guess it was more like 1/3 C, M and other models than the B models then.   

Gino,

  Thanks for the link.  I should have looked there first anyway.  Of the photos I have collected, almost all are UH-1B's.  I'd like to find some pics of the Charlie and Mike models. though.  It's kinda tough to tell UH-1L's and HH-1K's from C's and M's unless you can see the rescue hoist on the roof so maybe some of the birds I thought were UH-1L's are actually C's or M's.  I'm always learning when it comes to VN Hueys and I know there are no absolutes.

    Ray

PS:  I counted and 50 were UH-1B's, 16 were C/M's, 4 HH-1K's and 8 UH-1L's 

I hate to disagree with Gino, but most Hal-3 birds were Army UH-1B's...

No problem.  We learn something new every day.  I meant Ms, not Es. I was looking up USMC E info for someone earlier and had them on my mind.  The site below has a list of all HA(L)-3 aircraft and lists about half as M and C models, along with some of the others as you have listed.  Most C and M models seem to be post 70-71, which would make sense. 

HA(L)-3 aircraft list.

Vincenzo,

  I hate to disagree with Gino, but most Hal-3 birds were Army UH-1B's (some refs say a few C's and M's were used, but I can't confirm this with photos).  A few were UH-1L's, and the Sealords used a few HH-1K's.  NO HAL units used UH-1E's (to my knowledge).  Those were exclusively Marine birds.  The really unique thing about HAL-3 was the way they used their M60A's (although some did use Sagami mounts). Some interprising seaman came up with the idea of using the pistol grip from another M60 mounted at a right angle to the trigger on the forearm of the gun. Thus most HAL-3 M60's were true Free Guns with no bungee or Sagami mounting system.  Here are a few pics to show what I mean:

[img]http://[YOu can see the gunner using the side mounted grip. The gun is rotated such that the brass and links are collecting on the gunner's lap.

[img]http://Look closely and you can see the side mounted grip on the forearm of this guys 60.

[img]http://[here you can see the band that held the extra pistol grip in place.

[img]http://[Just to show that this isn't some one off mod, here are three gunners with the same modification.  In fact, I have photos from all the HAL-3 Detachments showing this system.

[img]http://[Another gunner with his modified 60.

[img]http://[One of my personal favorite photos of the modified M60A.

[img]http://[Here's a bird taht used BOTH the modified 60A (note buttsock has been replaced with a truncated version similar to M60C) and the Sagami mounting system.

[img]http://[This bird might account for the idea that HAL-3 had UH-1C's, but it is a Bravo model (see nose mounted pitot and symmetrical narrow chord stabs) with a C model tail boom replacement.

[img]http://[Sealords UH-1L (last flight in country).  Note the rof mounted rescue hoist which was indicative of the Navy's UH-1L and HH-1K.

50 Cals and Miniguns were used a lot by all the Seawolf deatchments.  These were mounted on Sagami swinging mounts for the most part.  Check this page halfway down for a bunch of pics of the miniguns and 50 cals used by the Seawolves:

/forums/11/767176/ShowPost.aspx#767176

Do you have a photo of the bird you are going to model?

Hope that helps.

Ray 

I would like to know which kind of M60 support device (pylon or hanging from the ceiling?) was used for this kind of Seawolf Hueys in 1970.

Not Ray, but...

Most SeaWolf UH-1Bs, Cs, and Es Ms used a Sagami-type mount that attached to the weapons mount (as seen below).

Check here for more info on SeaWolf helos.

Hi Ray,

I've read your discussions about the Huey helis and I must say that they are a precious source for modelers! I'm going to to build the US Navy HA(L)-3 Seawolf (Bin Thuy, 1970) in 1:72 scale from Italeri and I would like to insert it into a Vietnam diorama. To this purpose I would like to know which kind of M60 support device (pylon or hanging from the ceiling?) was used for this kind of Seawolf Hueys in 1970. Can you help me?

Regards

Vincenzo

Thanks for that Ray (and for the welcome) - pretty much where I thought the blade should be, right between the greenhouse windows, but it's nice to get confirmation! Going to have to either reshape the one in the kit or scratchbuild one as the shape is wrong, and scratchbuild something for the ADF antenna as well. I'm hoping to diorama the finished D with a Seminar UH-1B - the B is going to be in a 'crashed' state so I can transfer a few of the parts from the Seminar kit over to the Dragon/Huey (including the nose pitot).

From the Vietnam era Huey photos it looks like the VHF/UHF blade is painted OD, but everything I've read in the forums here suggest they would have been black or white, which suggests that all of them must be black in the photos I've seen (with just the odd white one here and there), so unless any of you guys know different I'll go with black :o)

Does anybody have a good photo showing the Loop ADF antenna on an early D? - Actually ignore that request - I've just checked and the Seminar UH-1B kit has one, so another part I can 'borrow'.

As I'm likely to have spare parts from the Seminar 1B kit left over when the diorama is done if there's anything anybody wants from it let me know and if I haven't used it or 'borrowed' it for the D then you can have it.

HOT_LZ,

  Welcome to the forum!  It's good to have another visitor from across the pond!  I assume you have browsed the FSM Huey links thread.  If not, check it out.  Hopefully it can help guide you to the info you need.  As for antenna locations, here is the 1965 Dash 20 (Mechanics manual) diagram for antenna locations on early VN era UH-1D's.  Hope that helps.

       Ray

New to the forum so am probably covering things that you guys all know anyway, but we all have to start somewhere :0)

Have just started work on my Dragon Huey as well - one thing I've noticed is that it looks to me that the roof blade antenna is in the wrong position for both a D AND an H - it looks to be set too far back, more like an N. It is also shaped more like an N antenna. As far as I can tell the correct position for a D and a H is between the greenhouse windows, more or less where the roof pitot tube is mounted on the model, and most of the photos I have of Vietnam Hs show the blade and the pitot tube alongside each other between the greenhouse windows. As I'm building it as a D I'm scratchbuilding a nose pitot and thinning down the verticlas on the two FM antenna as they're a bit thick. The model is an odd hybrid thing really, having parts for both a D and a H but a few features from an N (before even starting to talk about the incorrect rotor blades, rotor head and gearbox, but that's an altogether different story!) Cobra do some nice aftermarket corrections for it (cockpit detail and mechanics, as well as a the new strella kit) but I'm going to live with anything I can't fix myself as my budget doesn't run to the aftermarket extras (plus they are harder to get here in the UK) but if you are going for a Vietnam era model then I can recommend the decals from http://www.fireballmodels.info/ as there are a few on his 35th scale sheet that are missing from the standard set...

Grimmo,

  The major difference betwen the D and H models was the engine.  the D model had a Lycoming T53-L-11 and the H model had the T53-L-13.  The only visible difference is the placement of the pitot tubes (on the nose in D's and on the roof in H's).  Also, only D's had the nose mounted FM antennas but many of these were removed when D's began to be upgraded to the H standard. In fact, Snakedoctor has said he has even heard of pitots being moved from the nose to the roof on D's so even that is not a 100% way to identify them.  However, if it has a nose mounted pitot, it was originally a D model.  I hope that helps.

     Ray

I got mine today. Cant wait to start on it! Might try and turn mine into a RAAF 9SQN Bushranger. Will need a bit of scratchbuilding though!

Can anyone tell me the differences between the H and D model Hueys please?

i havent yet...but take some pics of the high quality additions huh?

Hey Guys,

    I just got the new Dragon UH-1D kit off of Evilbay for $27.  I have held off buying the Panda kit, but I think all the extras make this kit worth it.  Has anyone else bought one of these kits yet? 

        Ray
 

There was no set spot for the CE and Gunner's cords to exit the soundproofing.  I found most of the time it was at the corners of the fwd transmission wall.  sometimes the had them exiting by the main seat support tubes.  They were long enough so they would lay on the seats with a foot or so left over.  I found one shot of my bird with my mic cord in the aft well.  Also another shot of a UH-1C with the mic cords hanging on the aft wall.

I found a couple more pictures of some H model's with the mic cords visible.  Your choice on where you want to place them exiting the soundproofing.

so the mic wire was connected to the back of the ICS box and routed in the ceiling and came out in a different spot correct?

progress on my Panda sound proofing on the ceiling:

The CE and Gunner's Intercom cords had a mic switch and spring loaded clamp to secure the cord to the soundproofing or flight suit.  There also were floor mounted mic switches on the floor in each well.  I attached a picture of the cord switch with a "plug" for orientation and an ICS Box.  In the picture of me in my "office" you can see the dome shape foot mic switch housing by my left foot.   

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/UH-1-Huey-Helicopter-Intercommunication-Control-Panel_W0QQitemZ190114940589QQihZ009QQcategoryZ26436QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

where's the helmet plug into??

and found this one this morning...

http://www.casperplatoon.com/Costa%20M60.jpg

it looks like the audio cable for the helmets came out of the ceiling in it's own location??

http://www.casperplatoon.com/echols%20and%20powell.jpg

I dug out an old Revell Huey roof and did a quick version of what I think the roof vents looked like.  I know it was an oblong "depression" in the ceiling and I think it had two vent nossels.  It was just in front of the main seat support post.  Directly under the overhead roof vent on the top. 

I used the cheap tin foil from Wally World

I used Elmer's glue.....

first I folded the edges around my subject area then scribed the crosshatches with my mark1Mod0 fingernail

Bounce,

Nice work with the Tin foil. Im working on the revell and was planning on adding a few bits to the padding in foil. Are you using standard foil or the adhesive stuff, as i cant find the adhesive foil in any of my hobby shops.

Does it stick with normal glue or do you need super glue?

great work

Andy

great work Mel!!!

thanks for pointing that out....I've been working with tin foil and the Revell 1/32 sound proofing material....and have nearly completed transferring the Revell molded sound proof material on to the aft bulkheads...I'm gonna do the same for the ceiling...so those big holes I hacked into the roof will go away or become vents if I can re-create them somehow...

below are some results of the tin foil debacle, the homebuilt acetate chin bubble comparison (I used the baby monitor packaging from Fischer Price!), the chin bubble area rework, and the aft bulkheads

Vents!?? Vents!??  what do they look like?  air conditioning slats? or similar to the floor vents?

Unfortunately, you have the ICS boxes where the vents should be.  I edited your picture to show the approximate positions of the ICS boxes.

so this is what I've got going...is it correct?

Bounce19712 wrote:

on occassion hueys were waxed....would this account for the gloss or semi-gloss appearance? as well as a factory gloss??

 Army vehicles of the period were all painted in a semi-gloss paint, FS# 24087.  But with time and wear on the the finish it would dull to a flat look.  Washing them in diesel would bring back some of that semi until it wore off or dust stuck back to it, which would bring back the flat look.

Here are a couple of pics of my restored 1967 M715 and 1967 M35 both painted in FS#24087 dark OD green