The Huey Challenge

So, I'll add the first photo. 

Regards
Steve

Here is the rest of the TH-1L (157847) thats connected to that tail.  This bird was destroyed in a crash.

Regards
Steve

Here is 157839 on a cross country flight.

Regards
Steve

Here is 157840

Regards
Steve

Hatter,

I'm not sure the BuNo, but apparently the Huey at the Frontiers of Flight museum in Ft. Worth is a Lima model.  It is in Army colors, but their exhibit copy identifies it as a Lima.  Unfortunately, I don't have a good shot of it here, but this'll do for now:

Cobrahistorian,

I figured that Ray would be the first to post.  But then you must be up a bit earlier.  Thanks for that picture.  That might be the same one i saw sitting is some farmers field south of Ft Worth in Burleson about 10 years ago. 

Hoist "stuff" removed but I do see the hoist tube stub still in place.  I'll do some checking.  You must look at Data plates when you get a chance?

Again, Thank you.  A new "direction" to go in.

Regards
Steve

The Ventura County ship is probably in a bone yard if its still listed with Ventura County. I know Ventura County Fire Department had a 204 at one time but they upgraded to a 205 at least 7 years ago. The 204's are rarely used for fire anymore because they can not be certified for carrying passengers which makes them fairly useless for a helitack crew. CDF used to fly a few as well but those also have been replaced with 205's.

You do see contract 204's on fires occasionally since they can fly buckets and sling loads but I've only seen them in very busy fire seasons when pretty much anything with a rotor will be accepted.

Hey Aaronw,

First, thank you.  I was getting the impression that N204VC was possibly gone.  I note that N204VC went to them from NAF China Lake which had first aquired it.  I also note that the bell 204s probably more pointedly the 540 rotorheaded birds had a few expensive ADs to contend with.  I think the 1996 TH-1L crash during logging ops where the verticle fin brokeoff had a lot to do with that.  Lots of civilian TH-1Ls kinda deregistered about then.

And Cobrahistorian, I have a message into the Frontiers of Flight Museum to nail down that Bureau number.  Thanks for the tip on that one.

Aaron, I also show another TH-1L 157827 that is, or was stored at Camarillo Airport for Ventura County, any status on that?  Have you seen anything there?

Thanks all,

Regards
Steve

This is inside 157817 at the American Helicopter Museum

A bad picture of the tail.

Steve,

I'll see what else I've got on the FoF bird.  I don't have access to my photo files here at work, but I had posted that shot earlier so it was in my Photobucket account.  It does have a civilian registration as well, so when I get home, I'll post whatever else I've got on it.

Jon

Thanks Jon,

They might be off on Mondays as I haven't heard back from them.  I'll beat on thier house again tomorrow.  Horrible paint job anyway. 

Regards
Steve

Hey Jon,

I think the N number is N7UW, with BN of 157838.  They bought it from someone in Dallas.  I found this infor in the FAA registry.

Regards
Steve

Cobrahistorian sent me these extra photos of the TH-1L 157838 which resides at the Frontiers of Flight Museum in Dallas, TX.  Cleverly disguised as an Army bird.  Nice paint job though.

Steve

Steve,

  Sorry, I haven't been around the forum for a few days.  I'm planning the big move to Bama next week.  I guess I'll repost the pics I posted earlier of your birds, including the one with you in it?  I think you may overestimate my abilities at finding Limas, but it sounds like an interesting challenge.  

157842:

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What's the number of this bird your standing by (looks like 4??)?:

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 Don't you know better than to stand in front of the numbers?!  If that is a 4, though, something seems amiss as the first number should be an 8, no?  That is a TH-1L, isn't it?

Ray 

empeter,

Actually, pretty good shots.  Like mine, the Tail shot offers proof. 

Thank you. 
Steve

Ray,

yeah, I thought you had been snoozing or something.  The shot of me standing in front of the number.....Looks like "42" to me, but that interferes with my number "theory".  Back when it was taken (1971), don't know if they had the surviving UH-1Ls yet and don't know if they had any UH-1E's.  You can see that there are "borrowed" UH-1Ds from the Army in the background.

Regards
Steve

Steve,

  Your "number theory" is still alive and well.  I will explain with pics soon.  In the meantime, check the pics of 840, 839, 1nd 847 posted earlier. You'll note that the numbers on the doors don't match tail codes at all.  Any idea why?

      Ray

hey ray,

Not sure just which "Theory" your talking about.  MODEX (side numbers) rarely match Bureau Numbers.  MODEXs are a block of numbers assigned by the Wing, or higher HQ. 

Now when the aircraft comes from the factory, for instance 157840, would have 7840 in large numbers in the vert fin.  The full BN under it.  That is not the MODEX.

Clear as mud?

Steve

Steve,

  you said:

  "The shot of me standing in front of the number.....Looks like "42" to me, but that interferes with my number "theory". "

That would be the number theory I was talking about.  I assume that the number on the door is also the number on the nose of the aircraft as in this pic:

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As you can see, this is 157812 but it has 41 on the door and the nose, therefore, the 4 visible behind you doesn't conflict with your idea about the numbers.

Here's what I got so far.  First, the very first TH-1L off the line 157806:

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Did you fly this one?

Here's 829 and another bird I can't make out:

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Here's 157827:

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Is it just coincidence that the 157 on the door and nose are the first three numbers of the serial? 

I think you may want to start a running tally at the beginning of the thread so we can keep track of new birds we find.  Also, I personally would be very interested to hear any stories you have about the individul aircraft.  It's the history that makes them come to life after all.  This was a great idea and will definitely force me to learn more about Navy Hueys.

  Ray
 

Ray,

Your using a big gauge shotgun there Ray.    Apples and Oranges!  But..............you are getting on track. 

1.  If you look at my spreadsheet. 
      a.  I have been keeping track of the photos with x's under navy for Navy photos.  Civ for civilian.  Might need to update those. 
      b.  Flown has x's for all I've flown.  Missing 812, 818, 833, 843.  We have a pic of 812.
      c.  From baugher's serial number website, the FAA registry, and a few more places, I patched together enough info ofr the list of Bureau numbers and Construction numbers. 

2.  MODEX Numbers
      a.  I noted a pattern of MODEX numbers with only a few exceptions that could be caused by any number of things.  Intergation of UH-1Ls, UH-1Es, Commanders perogitive.  Only one squadron was using the aircraft.
      b.  Your find of those B&W photos, I've seen them before but not recently, show the Bell demo photo of the first model, 806. 
      c.   There "appreared" to be another MODEX sequence early on.  When they shifted, who knows.  The number 42 (behind me in the photo) and your 41, show me the early pattern.  They were all built 69-70 (reasonable guess here).  I first saw them in '72 with what now appears to be the dual didget MODEX.  I didn't see them again until '77 when they had 100 series MODEX.
      d.  Nothing in the "rulebook" that says a MODEX is married to a BN forever.  MODEX's can change, as we see here.
      f.  Nothing in the rulebook that says that MODEXs have to follow a BN series.  
      g.  You asked about 157.  yes that is a coincidence.  Look at the spreadsheet.  Every BN has 157 in it and my "theory" list has just one 157 and it HAS to fall onto a 157 BN. 
      h.  Part of my THEORY is that HT-18 did keep MODEXs linked to BNs.  Since they owned ALL TH-1Ls, why not?  Be easy enough to do. 

3.  Stories?  I know what you mean.  I know that stories can fire passions.  I don't think there were too many earth shattering stories here.  These aircraft saw a LOT of men and women pass through them.  The first women helicopter pilots flew them in training.  Many of the astronaughts came through and flew them.  I don't have the squadrons records, so I can't tell you those stories.

4.  My purpose is to just FIND photos of them ALL while in service or afterwards, in civilian hands or in museums.  I would even like to see the hulks in the bone yards. 

5.  You added a few to my list.  They will be noted on the spreadsheet.  made it a lot easier to just make a photo of the changes.

6.  I will show at least one photo for each in this thread when I get them all, fair enough?

7.  I appologise for that crazy spreadsheet.  My color codes dont have a legend to them.  Gotta keep some secrets you know?

See Ray, as a Dinasour guy I KNEW that you had it in you to do this thing.  You came through with some hard ones.

Regards..............pulling buck shot out of my backsides.
Steve

here is 157812 as #41

here is 157812 as #142

Steve

Steve,

  Sorry about that numbers thing.  Thanks or the pics of 812 with different numbers.  Now I see your point.  We were kinda talking past one another (actually you were just talking over my head since I' not military and I have a lot to learn).  Also, didn't realize the x's were for ships we had photos of on the thread, sorry about that too.  I'm afraid that I may have exhausted my resources at the moment, but if I get to go to Pensacola, thay probably have some photos of Limas in their collection.  Anyway, I'll keep looking.  How, by the way, do you know you flew in all  but a few of the TH-1L's?  Is there a flight logbook that records the serials or do you just have a scary memory for numbers?  Sorry, but that's one of the probably simple things I don't know.

    Ray

Sorry?  Don't you dare be sorry!  You do too good a job looking for "stuff".  Like I said, my spreadsheet is acting like a 12 gauge also. 

I updated the spreadsheet so you can see what pics ive found.  I have more but it's kinda hard to really figure out if it's a jumbled MODEX system after the fleet was diluted with UH-1Es and UH-1Ls and then painted the same. 

Steve

Ray,

Here is a for instance.

I was there then and from what I can remember of what they were doing, it was probably an "E" model.  But you see it and think TH-1L.  Note the low MODEX also.....gets back to my theory.  (theorys get you in trouble at times)

The accident was just a simple case of dynamic rollover.  The damage came carrying it back on a flatbed. 

hey Ray,

Little tidbit I found today.  Swift kick to memory really (came when I read the headline to the photo you sent on going to the boat).    All the TH-1Ls went originally to HT-8, the sole helicopter training squadron, both basic and advanced.  March 1972 was when HT-18 was established.  That swirled around me when I was a student there but I was too busy at the time to notice much.

As Theories go, I "suspect" that the MODEXs changed at that time.  Why?  Because in the navy each squadron in a wing has a different series of number blocks, ie the 100s, another the 200s, etc. 

Note also that CO's have thier say also as I suspect happened in this photo:

notice the PAINTOVER then 100 applied?  Like it should have been 170?  Why because 170 AKA 100 is 157840.  100 would be the CO's aircraft.  Maybe it just got back from rework and "looked" the best. (from looking at that particular photo, I would dispute THAT particular claim....

Anyway, see my point on MODEXs?

Steve

Steve,

  I notice that all the birds with 3 digit MODEX's (except for the photos of 812 and 840) also have the particle separators installed, whereas the few pics we have of 2 digit MODEX's all have the bell mouth intake.  Kinda supports your idea that the 2 digit system was early and the 3 digit one was later on since most, if not all, TH-1L's came off the line with the bell mouth intake and the particle separators were installed later.

      Ray 

Hey Ray,

You had asked a question about how I knew I flew certain aircraft.  yes, my logbooks record dates and Bureau numbers flown. 

Still on the hunt.  And if you get to P'cola, the library in the Museum is terrific and they will help in any way.

Regards
Steve

A few notes to update the spreadsheet:

157807 is preserved at NAS Whiting Field (last seen Apr07)

157819 is on the Aberdeen Proving Grounds MD (seen Jun00)

157824 went with the USMC from El Toro to Miramar, where it is now stored in a museum compound (last noted Oct07).

157834/N204VC went to the Aviation Warehouse at El Mirage CA from Camarillo. It was seen there JUn03-Oct03. http://www.aviationwarehouse.net/1020645.html  does not look promising here.

157835 was noted at Inyokern in Aug99 at the Budd McGee Air Park collection. However, the collection was dispersed by Oct02, does anyone now what happened to all the aircraft?

157848 is displayed in US Army colours outside VVA Post 96, at 241 Lake Ella Drive, Tallahassee FL (seen Sep07). I spoke with the Post Guru and a photo is forthcoming.

Here is a photo of 157807 at NAS Whiting Field FL.  She was damaged in one of the past huricanes and is undergoing restoration in this photo.  The guy standing there is one of the people doing the restoration. 

Regards
Steve