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Australian close air support Huey

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  • Member since
    March 2004
Posted by Grimmo on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:57 AM

Bugger the green cans, i have some James Squire!

 

The landrover will be one of the Series 3. It will be with the Bushranger, so it will be one of the ADG gun trucks i have a few pics of. It has a twin M-60 set up in the rear the same as the gunships!

I'm going to base it off the Tamyia Landrover Ambulance, with Mouse House Wheels, and a converson kit from Aussie Armour. I've been wanting to do a landrover for ages, and am also planning an SASR Series 3 LRPV. I'll be using the Tamyia SAS Pink Panther, with the Aussie Armour stuff and Mouse House stuff as well.

 I'd love to do a 110 and the SASR 6x6, but there arent any decent kits out there to start from!

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: The Mallee, Australia
Posted by Sunnas on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 1:10 AM

G'day Grimmo.

First things first. Keep your XXXX old mate, but have you got any green cans?!!

I know it's a little off topic, but I'm interested in your Rover. What era will this dio be? ie: will it be a SIII or 110? Which kit and any add ons? I have been toying with the concept of taking on a 110, but I'm not sure if I'm biting off more than I can chew!

Good luck with it.

Nick. 

  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: QLD Australia
Posted by cairnsy01 on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 12:15 AM

G'Day Rotorwash,

The Bushranger's were drawn straight from of the standard RAAF line H model Iroquois. If I recall correctly to configure as a gunship it required a few mods to the airframe for the electrical system to power guns etc and only some of the RAAF eventualy Army Iroquois received these changes I can't remember all the tail numbers off my head. the actual weapons were not much more than a bolt on and plug in affair as a result the gunship aircraft could be reconfigured to a slick with out a great deal of effort or time. The hoist is also just a config change bolting in and out as required. So accordingly many photos of the gunship capable aircraft will have them configured as slicks with or without doorguns or with or without hoist but it is unusual to see it from a vietnam era aircraft I thought that once the Gunships came about they pretty much kept them in that config the entire time as they only had 4 aircraft to start out with. So possible explanations for that pick would be they really needed that aircraft to be in a slick config for a tasking, Or another option could be that the nose panel was damaged and was removed from one of the gunships and put on to 149?

Hope that puts you in the right direction

Cheers Cairnsy

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:20 PM

Friends from down under,

  Would one of you be kind enough to explain this photo to me:

 Photobucket" border="0" />

As you can see this is a Vietnam era photo.  the bird has BUSHRANGER on the nose, but no armament.  What's up with that?  I thought BUSHRANGERS were just the minigun/rocket gunships. Am I correct? This bird appears to be equipped for rescue operations.  Thanks for your help.

     Ray
 

PS: Here's the info I found on 149:

2-149UH-1H68-1521910149Delivered 06/01/69 to 9 Sqn Vietnam. 9 Squadron received A2-149 and A2-110 due to the the loss on operations of A2-381 and A2-769 in October 1969. Operated as UH-1H Bushranger in Vietnam. Oakey Airshow 1986. Several tours with Peace Monitoring Group, Bougainville, since 04/98. Was in Service 171 Sqn - 1st Aviation Regiment. Retired and placed into storage.
  • Images of A2-149.
  •  

    • Member since
      January 2003
    • From: Melbourne, Ausralia
    Posted by Grubbman on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 3:45 PM
    Hi Cairnsy, That makes sense. Thanks.
    Grubby.
    • Member since
      November 2006
    • From: QLD Australia
    Posted by cairnsy01 on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 7:16 AM

    G'Day All

    If I recall correctly the forward windows were removed on both sides so the Loadmaster could get to the Fire access doors on engine start(look like one of the kick in steps). But I don't see why refuelling couldn't be done through the starboard window with the doors pinned back. Hope this helps.

    Cheers Cairnsy

    • Member since
      January 2003
    • From: Melbourne, Ausralia
    Posted by Grubbman on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:45 AM
    Hi Grimmo,
    I had the same problem. I did this build with the old Revell 1:32 kit some years ago but it got trashed in a move. The only bits I kept were the M60s! I got two of them from a Dragon machine gun set that had all sorts of contemporary weapons in it (Kit# 3806), one from the Dragon helo crew set and I forget where no4 came from. The set may still be available. It was called "Modern Machine Guns". I think they were the only things in the set that I used.
    Grubby.
    • Member since
      March 2004
    Posted by Grimmo on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:45 AM
     Grubbman wrote:

    Hi Guys, Can I come and play too?

    I have the same project in the planning stage, it will be 377 in green and white RAAF colours. If that works out okay, I may do an Army one later.

    I'm also planning a couple of Bravos, from the Academy Charlie kit with Dragon Hotel/Delta tailfin and rotors. 

    I have attached a couple of pics showing the pyramid-topped ammo bins more recently used (Pic scanned from ANZ Defender mag) and the earlier ammo boxes strapped to the floor arrangement. 

    Here's a question for you, Cairnsy, on most of the Bushranger pics I've seen, the front window on the side doors has been removed. Do you know why they did this? 

    I hope the pics help!

    Grubby. 

     

     

     

     

     

    The forward windows were removed, usually on the port side, so it could be refeulled without having to close the doors. Which you can't with the door guns fitted.

    • Member since
      March 2004
    Posted by Grimmo on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 4:41 AM

    Mind if i pull up a chair and join you all? Even brought some XXXX! I am going to be working on the same thing, turning the Dragon Huey into  a RAAF Bushranger. I have the Dragon Kit, the MRC UH-1C "Frog" kit which contails all the weapons, and the Dragon helicopter crew.

     

    I've found to accurately make the door guns, you will probablt need the M-60's from the Dragon LSSC. The M-60's fitted to the Bushranger have the full stock, no forward hand guards, but have the bi-pods fitted The only problem is the M-60's in the LSSC kit are a bit chunky, so i guess you could chop and change the M-60's in the Door gunner set. But you would need 4 of those kits! I would need another 2 as well, as i am planning a diorama with a ADG landrover!

    • Member since
      January 2007
    • From: Auburn, Alabama
    Posted by rotorwash on Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:21 PM

    If you guys haven't read it, go here for the Bushranger story:

    http://www.hotkey.net.au/~marshalle/raaf/bushranger.htm

    It explains the ammo cans, but here is the pertinanat paragraph:

    In mid 1971, the resident Armament Officer developed the Payne Hopper Bin. This large bin was constructed by modifying two existing US ammunition storage bins and was about 30 cubic inches, with a pyramid top section. Using the spare build up kit, a gunship was built with the new hopper bins, one feeding each gun. This meant that spare ammunition bins could be pre-loaded with 4500 rounds each at the forward arming pad at Nui Dat while the gunship was flying. On arrival, the gunship's empty ammunition bins would be removed and full ones installed and connected. 

    I think this site will prove very imformative to you guys.  It was written by one of the armorers so I bet it's accurate.  Good luck!

    Ray 

    • Member since
      January 2008
    • From: The Mallee, Australia
    Posted by Sunnas on Saturday, January 12, 2008 7:45 PM

    Welcome aboard Grubby!

    Hey nice pics there mate, great view of the ammo boxes that have been puzzling me.
    On closer inspection, they appear to be 2 x 50cal boxes stuck together, with the pyramid on top? Should be easy enough to rustle up anyway. Thanks for your trouble!

    Nick. 
    • Member since
      January 2003
    • From: Melbourne, Ausralia
    Posted by Grubbman on Saturday, January 12, 2008 6:30 PM

    Hi Guys, Can I come and play too?

    I have the same project in the planning stage, it will be 377 in green and white RAAF colours. If that works out okay, I may do an Army one later.

    I'm also planning a couple of Bravos, from the Academy Charlie kit with Dragon Hotel/Delta tailfin and rotors. 

    I have attached a couple of pics showing the pyramid-topped ammo bins more recently used (Pic scanned from ANZ Defender mag) and the earlier ammo boxes strapped to the floor arrangement. 

    Here's a question for you, Cairnsy, on most of the Bushranger pics I've seen, the front window on the side doors has been removed. Do you know why they did this? 

    I hope the pics help!

    Grubby. 

     

     

     

     

    • Member since
      January 2008
    • From: The Mallee, Australia
    Posted by Sunnas on Tuesday, January 8, 2008 8:52 PM

    Excellent site Ray, thanks.

    As I kinda avoid fixed wing stuff I missed this site. Great stuff!

    <>Nick. 
    • Member since
      January 2007
    • From: Auburn, Alabama
    Posted by rotorwash on Tuesday, January 8, 2008 8:02 PM

    Nick,

      US Hueys are really my thing, but from what I have seen the M134 minigun and M158 rocket pods were used on Bushrangers right up until the end.  The M134 minigun is still in use basically unchanged.  Check the Dillon Aerospace page here:

    http://www.dillonaero.com/ 

    Here is another sight I think you'll like.  This is a list of all the Aussie Hueys with pics of some of them.  You'll note that the pic at the top is from 2003.  I don't see M60's, but they could still be in use I guess.  The M158 pod is there as are the mount for the M134 minigun. The wirestrike kit indicates this is a fairly recent pic. Anyway, check it out:

    http://www.adf-serials.com/3a2.shtml

    Ray 

    • Member since
      January 2008
    • From: The Mallee, Australia
    Posted by Sunnas on Tuesday, January 8, 2008 7:00 PM

    Ray I followed your YouTube link which was very interesting, cheers. What did catch my attention was this clip, however:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20vIEJpMkps

    It shows Bushrangers on a live fire ex at Shoalwater Bay in 2003. Door guns are fitted and appear to be MAG 58s? The plot thickens! Cairnsy - do you know from when the door guns were no longer used? It would be interesting to get a definitive answer on this question.

    Ray, I did have a bit of a look at the Viet-era pics earlier, but at that stage I wasnt sure they had much to offer me. On closer inspection, it would appear that the weapons config (apart from twin 60s!) didnt change in 30 years? Would this be right? So apart from modern comms/aerials/etc, the Viet 'ranger is a pretty solid template for the same machine at the end of it's service life? 

    Oh, and Cairnsy - dont worry about the bum steer mate! We all make mistakes!

    Cheers fellas.

    Nick 

    • Member since
      January 2007
    • From: Auburn, Alabama
    Posted by rotorwash on Tuesday, January 8, 2008 7:19 AM

    Nick,

      Your welcome.  I have 7 of the Academy/MRC kits in all the different boxings, so I thought i would offer.  You may have already seen these pics posted here or elsewhere, but here are a few Bushranger pics for ya.

    F irst, if you haven't seen this video clip on YouTube, chech it out:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B76CFyv79Tk

    Here's some pics of the twin 60's:

    Photobucket[img]http://Photobucket

    Here's a closeup of the minigun.  RAAF Squadron 9 eliminated all the hydrulics that moved the gun and fired them fixed forward:

     [img]http://Photobucket" border="0" />

    Here's a couple of overall shots of a Bushranger.  you can see the windscreen mentioned earlier:

    Photobucket[img]http://Photobucket" border="0" />[/img]

    A shot from the top showing the yellow rotor blade which increased visibility of the helo from above:

    Photobucket" border="0" />

    finally, here's a realtively recent shot of a Bushranger and you can still see the doorguns:

    Photobucket" border="0" />

    Good luck with the build, mate!

       ray
     

    • Member since
      November 2006
    • From: QLD Australia
    Posted by cairnsy01 on Tuesday, January 8, 2008 1:42 AM

    Sunnas,

    Sorry about the bad info on the Hog kit mate I was working on the Info all the Academy kitts had the same sprues they just called out to use different ones for different boxings.

    The idea of the M-60's was that the Helo would approach head on spewing bullets and rockets at the bad guys and as they turned away the door guns would kick in and brass up the target to keep the bad guys heads down as the aircraft was more vulnerable ('Shockwave' by Peter Haran goes through this pretty well) I'm not sure what the go was with the ARMY removing them whether there was a problem of a technical nature or if they just changed their way of doing things. So it seems as though your other info was pretty close to the mark. I'll see if I can come up with any pics of the ammo boxes for you mate.

     Cheers Cairnsy

    • Member since
      January 2008
    • From: The Mallee, Australia
    Posted by Sunnas on Tuesday, January 8, 2008 1:13 AM

    That's a very kind offer Ray. It's no dramas mate, I dont mind picking up another bloody Huey! Haha. Truely, I appreciate your thoughtfulness though.

    I have a 1/35 ADF hawk on the go at the moment, and will be building both the slick and gunship versions of the Huey in the same scale, so you never know what might come in handy.  

    I feel a debt of gratitude just for your offer! Thanks again. 

    Nick. 

    • Member since
      January 2007
    • From: Auburn, Alabama
    Posted by rotorwash on Monday, January 7, 2008 9:59 PM

    Nick,  What's shipping to Australia?  i'll send you the weapons sprue if you want.  Sorry the post came too late.

       Ray
     

    • Member since
      January 2008
    • From: The Mallee, Australia
    Posted by Sunnas on Monday, January 7, 2008 9:26 PM

    Bugger! I just ordered the Heavy Hog!

    <>Oh well, now I've got an elaborate spares box then!

    Thanks for the heads up Ray.

    Nick. 

    <>
    • Member since
      January 2007
    • From: Auburn, Alabama
    Posted by rotorwash on Monday, January 7, 2008 8:51 PM

    Nick,

      The Academy/MRC "Heavy HOG" kit does NOT have minis or M158 rocket pods!  The MRC "Gunship" with the Muskets motif on the front has the minis and M158 pods as does the MRC/Academy "Frog" kit.  In fact, the "FROG" has ALL the weapons combinations found in the MRC HUEYs so I would get that one if I could.  Good luck with the build!

          Ray

    • Member since
      January 2008
    • From: The Mallee, Australia
    Posted by Sunnas on Monday, January 7, 2008 6:33 PM

    Cairnsy,

    Fantastic info - just what I was after.  I did wonder about the Hog kit, but the big box shaped rocket pods on the box art made me think I was looking in the wrong place. Great. Any pics of those ammo boxes would be appreciated, and perhaps any detail of the pylons and weapons would be great if you could manage it. I have already scoured Airliners.net (what a resource!) coming up with lots of a/c pics but bugger all detail shots.

    Interesting about the door guns. Was floating around a forum (maybe pprune) about the time of the first ARH delivery, and picked up on a thread bemoaning the demise of the Huey gunship. Whoever was posting seemed to be aircrew, and was saying the great strength of the Huey in this role was the ability to lay down reasonably accurate fire from the sides long after the bloke at the pointy end's window for firing had closed. This chap seemed to be saying the Huey gunship was far more effective directly over the target rather than on it's way in, and that the Tiger was only ever going to be recon, and would never fill the air support role to the level of the Huey it replaced.

    So obviously, if the door guns were deleted long before the machines were retired, then old mate is clearly struggling with the facts. Interesting stuff, taken of course with a pinch of salt, but nevertheless I guess I expected door guns. Any thoughts?  

    Now, I'm off to buy a Hawg!

    <>Cheers 

    Nick 

    • Member since
      November 2006
    • From: QLD Australia
    Posted by cairnsy01 on Monday, January 7, 2008 8:07 AM

    G'day Nick,

    I have the same project waiting in the winds for me to attack as a 9SQN Vietnam Helo using the Dragon kit with a few stolen parts from the Academy C model I'll describe each mod as best as I can and if there are any particular reference pics you are chasing E-mail me and I'll check if i have what your after in my Iroquois stash.

    To do a late model Bushranger will be reasonably straight forward they did indeed have forward firing miniguns on the forward hard points (just behind the pilots doors) and 7 Shot exposed type rocket pods on the Aft hard points (roughly in line with rear of cabin door).

     The ammo bins resemble 2 square boxes with a pyramid type structure on top from the centre each has a belt feeding to the gun through a small cut out in the Quarter door(most of not all Late H models seem to have the window skinned over).The ammo boxes were fitted just behind the captains and co-pilots seats.

     The quarter doors will need the wind deflector(thin sheet of metal with small holes drilled) added along the rear of the quarter door and the door guns disappeared from gunships a few years ago so for the pre retirement config leave them off.

     When the RAAF/early ARMY flew as Gunships the sideways gunners seats were the only cabin seats fitted, the 5 seater and posts were removed but later in the piece they seemed to leave all the cabin seats in so you're probably safe to go that way.

     The later UH-1H all seemed to have the IR suppression kits fitted (bowl exhaust, plates to the side if the doghouse, plate underneath) also the Tropical filter was added to the dog house.

     The late aircraft did away with the Zig Zag antennae up boths sides of the tail boom and had a straighter antennae down the lower port side of the boom.

    The Cabin has 2 handles hanging down from the roof resembling a towel rail on the port side and kind of a triangular shape on the Starboard to allow clearance when the hoist was fitted to Slicks.

    Best check references for Aerial Config, Cable cutters are standard fit as is the framing sitting just proud of the top of the windscreen which is also part of the wirestrike mod the upper cable cutter also has a GPS antenna mounted to it.

     There is a fold down gunsight from the top of the windscreen on both sides of the cockpit and a weapons control panel on the centre console (but this is getting super picky!)

    That pretty much covers the visible mods/config issues i don't think i missed anything big Hopefully that can help you out. As for sourcing the required bits and pieces if you can get your hands on the weapons sprues from the Academy UH-1C FROG/HOG your half way there. the correct rocket pods are included as are miniguns with correct mounts and flexible belts. The pylons included are pretty close to what you'll need however the Acad kit only includes 2 you will need 4. it also includes a gunsight which will be useful however these will not be too hard to scratch I was lucky enough to know someone working on the same kit as a slick so was allowed to raid his kit for the parts i needed to double up on. The rest of the smaller mods will be pretty straight forward to scratch as for markings Hawkeye Decals should sort you out.

    I hope this all helps if you need any clarification don't hesitate to ask good luck with your Bushranger

    Cheers Cairnsy

     

    • Member since
      January 2008
    • From: The Mallee, Australia
    Australian close air support Huey
    Posted by Sunnas on Monday, January 7, 2008 4:17 AM

    Like others around the traps, I'm keen to produce an aussie Huey from the new Dragon 1/35 kit.

    Thing is, I'd like mine to be a close air support bird, essentially a successor to the Bushrangers of the Vietnam war, and now replaced by the new euro Tiger ARH.  It will be modelled late in it's career - so as modern as possible.  It seems the birds in question had pylons with tubular rocket pods and miniguns fitted. Can anyone help me out with what these are and perhaps where I might find suitable examples to fit to the model? What about door guns?

    <>Thanks in advance.

    <>Nick.

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