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Whats wrong with this diorama?

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  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Whats wrong with this diorama?
Posted by T-rex on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:57 AM

Been working on this small simple diorama now and then, nothing much really, its just my flakpanzer and 6 pounder in the same dio, mainly cause there my favorite models, but there something not right with.

Its certainly not the models themself, there looking great, and its not the context. I think its the groundwork, the grass is too bright, the bushes are too small and far appart, there just something wrong but I just can't find it.

pictures4146.jpg picture by sherman22

pictures4147.jpg picture by sherman22

pictures4148.jpg picture by sherman22

pictures4152.jpg picture by sherman22

pictures4154.jpg picture by sherman22

Of course, there still a few touch ups, like the figures and the base, but I want to find the problem before moving on. Could someone help me?

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 9:16 AM

For me the main thing that jumps out is the figure in the middle, climbing over the gun. He looks out of place for 2 reasons. Firstly, i looks more like he is assaulting a position than just climbing over a piece of kit. Second, and this is more of an historical observation, he looks to early war for me,  where as the Wirbelwind is a late war vehicle.  For me the grass is ok, but ye, some larger bushes would be nice.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 9:38 AM

Is the crushed-stone road too bright? I know engineer corps would be maintaining/rebuilding roads on the fly, but it seems to draw too much attention, almost divides the diorama into two elements. (This is coming from an airplane guy though!)

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: 41 Degrees 52.4 minutes North; 72 Degrees 7.3 minutes West
Posted by bbrowniii on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 12:31 PM

I see a couple of things:

1)  It looks like your road is seperating from the base to the left.  Minor detail

2)  There seems to be a couple of stories going on here.  What is the guy in front of the gun doing?  He is holding the shield and has a sploch of red paint on him - did he just get shot??  Is that why the other guy is climbing over the gun - he is seeking cover?  And the crew inside the turret of the flakpanzer - you don't have a pic specifically of them, but they seem to be in action (I see a guy pointing up in the sky), but the rest of the crew seem pretty relaxed.

3)  There is something about the groundwork, like you say.  I think it might be that it looks to segmented, there is a light greenish/yellowish patch, a darker green patch, and a tanish/brownish patch.  Maybe try to blend them together a little more for better continuity.

4)  The heavy rust on the tracks also seems out of place.

So that is what I see.  The good thing is, none of them are all that major.  With some tweaking, I think you've got a heck of a dio there.

 

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing' - Edmund Burke (1770 ??)

 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:22 PM

Yes, thats it. Its not the idea thats bad its the element of the dio, I forgot sheperds pains first rule of a diorama, the layout.

Well The figure on the guy was an old tamiya figure that was coming out of a Hanomag, I thought he was right for the diorama because he was getting on the gun to examine it.

The context is more of an issue than I though, See originally the story is just a flakpanzer passing by the abandon 6 pounder, some germans examination it, and the crew just looking at it, however, bbrowniii, on your second comment just gave me a better idea for this dio.

Here's a view of the crew

pictures4151.jpg picture by sherman22

pictures4155.jpg picture by sherman22

Else that the tracks  (alittle pastel should do), The groundswork have some problems, like the bushes (which are real plants) should be in bundels, not speard out like a even pattern. The grass, well I ran out of green So I thought some burned and yellow grass would help, it did, sort of. And the gravel looks fine, its from woodland scenic.

Thanks for the help, please add anything else that stands out.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:33 PM

Your original idea would be ok if the gun didn't look like they had just seen an aircraft and the gun climbing on the gun didn't look like he was about to assault the flakpanzer.  As for the two hull figures being more relaxed, i would be ok with that as they are not yet arware of whats coming. However, if the vehicle is passing by, then the driver should be in his seat driving.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: MN
Posted by 101stAirborne on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 7:11 PM

the figures seem to shiny to me.

Models on the bench:

Too many to count!

  

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:47 PM

Agee with browniii... few adjustments there then you are good.  I have to say this... I'd hate for the panzer crew (driver and other) to go DEAF like me if the guns are about to fire!  The flak crew looks like they are about to fire and the panzer crews at relaxing mode are dangerously too close to the gun barrels. 

Looking forward to see this done.

Andy

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Thursday, April 15, 2010 7:50 AM

1. The turret halves don't line up at all.

2.There's a guy in the turret who looks like he's laying down.

3. There are too many rusty lookng areas on the panzer, including the rubber wheels.

4. The dirt on the 6 pounder does  not look natural. It looks like it was out in a sand storm then a mud storm but the surroundings don't follow through.

5. Why is the guy climbing over the gun when it's just as easy to walk around it?

6. As mentioned, the driver and radio operator are not in driving positions.

7.  In general, the figures are not interacting nor do they seem to be in the same scene. As mentioned, they also appear to be quite glossy.

8. The  guy climbing over the gun looks like he just ignored the "Wet Paint" sign on the park bench. There two distinctly different shades of paint on him.

 

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Thursday, April 15, 2010 8:56 AM

Alright, thats good, thou keep in mind the dio is not completly done, the base hasen't been painted yet, and the flakpanzer turret is still not glued together yet because the figures in the turret aren't done painted yet,

So, it would look like the best idea would be the flakpanzer is stopping to ask dirrection at the guy in front of the 6 pounder when suddenly an ailled aircraft (who has been order to destroyed any capture equipement) begins to open fire on the crew. The gunner and the german foot solider are the only ones who see it coming in, but the office is not so lucky. Pehaps the tank drive face kinda look like he's thinking "Oh ******".

Like Sheperd paine's context of the "invisible enemy" The aircraft is offset, so I just need to make the figure looks more in character.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:47 AM

Hey T-Rex,

I'm not totally convinced by the road. To me it seems too pristine and as mentioned, almost separate from the rest of the scene.

The little sprinkles of gravel around the scene are unconvincing, the gravel being  a little too uniform in size, I'd suggest some varying sizes of rocks etc, maybe some broken branches and assorted undergrowth.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Thursday, April 15, 2010 9:56 AM

Ahhh -it's not "finished-finished" then! That would clear up some questions about figures laying down & turret mis-alignments. Once it is done, it would be really sharp if you could take a display it with a picture an allied plane of some sort swooping down in the background! Post more as you're going, there's no lack of help to be had around here,

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    September 2009
Posted by Cobra 427 on Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:57 PM

Maybe you should cluster more shrubbery around the edges. Some of  it is in places that are a little impractical. The trailer is one area in particular. Otherwise, the rest is up to you to decide what looks good, or correct to your eye.  If this is a summer scene, then make the grass a little more dense, and a slighty overall darker colour. In the fall, or winter - grass is lighter as there isn't as much rain, and it becomes dormant as temperatures drop.  This is something to take into consideration when building a diorama of an outdoor scene. The grass looks very good from what I've seen so far.  The evergreen bushes should be a little darker, even in the winter, as these aren't a lighter green colour as regular soysa grass usually is. 

The guys all could use a repaint over their faces, and the one crawling over the canon looks like he fell in water, or a bucket of green paint!  They all look like aliens with the green skin. Make sure that you don't overdo it when repainting it. I had to go over my Terminator figure several times until I got to the stage where I felt it was finally correct. There's a place that everyone must arrive at when building anything when they feel that it's perfect.  Only you can decide to what degree this needs to be redone, and it what areas until you feel right with it. The red stripes on the majors could be a little thinner. Make sure that this all blends together when done. Continuity is what you want, and I think that's what you're aiming for when asking for help. You did the right thing in not being just satisfied with this, but realising that something was wrong, and needed to be corrected. 

Maybe a picture of a squirrel playing a harmonica will make you feel better?

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:29 AM

Ok... Here's my asessment..

1:  The base is too small for what's going on.  It'd be fine if the Wirbelwind was alone, but the field piece crowds it and makes the Flakpanzer look like a supporting factor rather than the main story.  Also, it's better to have a bit more space in front of a vehicle than the rear in order to give it the appearance of it being on the move, or about to be.  You've got two dioramas here, shoe-horned onto one base...

2.  You have the figures looking off in all directions.  The cry of "ACHTUNG, FIENDLICHE JAGER! ZWEI UHR!" would have everyone looking in the direction of the attacking aircraft, and the troops on the ground would likely be aiming at it as well, since they don't have to wait for a turret to traverse...  The driver and radio operator would be either buttoning up (likely) or un-azzing the vehicle to hump ammo from the trailer (unlikely, since you don't have one)... 

So, it would look like the best idea would be the flakpanzer is stopping to ask dirrection at the guy in front of the 6 pounder when suddenly an ailled aircraft (who has been order to destroyed any capture equipement) begins to open fire on the crew.

For that scenario to evident, it'd be better to have the Commander (who is also the gunner) to be on the grround with the Soldier and holding a map. 

Remember, simple stories are the best ones, and the story not only has to apparent to the viewer, it has to instantly apparent... 

As for the groundwork, that needs tweaking, but it's not too bad.. Just needs some tying-in and blending... 

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, April 27, 2010 11:43 AM

If they've just been spotted by a fighter-bomber, it might make more sense for the figure leaping/climbing over the wheel to do so in the other direction, as if he's jumping for cover of some kind.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posted by T-rex on Wednesday, April 28, 2010 5:53 PM

On second thought, srew the whole idea of a ailled aircraft sraffing them, too hard and just makes thinks worst for this dio (beside I already have a diorama that an air attack was the context). Instead I going back to the original idea of the falkpanzer stopping by for some direction.

I 've made a few changes, First I took out those two figure around the gun and replace them with two other figure that are in a much more suitabe position. Rather than behind panic or unemotional, the two are learning how the 6 pounder works and aide the tank commander.

Another change I did was I switch the right arm of the gunner at the falk 38 (the one that was pointing) and gave it the tank gunner/radio opertator, that way he looks like he's responding to the others.

I also added a few shadow and pastel on the gound work to make it look more real and darker, I will post photos when it will be full complete.

Working on: Trumpeter SU-152 (1/35) Trumpeter E-10 (1/35) Heller Somua (1/35)

"The world is your enemy, prince of a thousand enemy. And when they'll find you, they will kill you... but they will have to catch you first ''

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: hamilton , Ontario
Posted by EliteModelling on Thursday, April 29, 2010 6:44 PM

i really don't like that gravel effect that you used. looks like as if a rock exploded and gravel went everywhere and that would be a unrealistic exploded rock so it would not work out. Also i noticed that most of the figures were not fully painted or they have a mix of mate finish and glossy finish. as many people said this is not a realistic scenario.

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Friday, April 30, 2010 4:03 PM

Not an unrealistic scenario at all.. It just needed, scenario-wise, some tweaks to the figures and their positioning to make the story more apparent.  As for fully painted figures, he pointed out earlier that the dio wasn't finished.. 

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: hamilton , Ontario
Posted by EliteModelling on Friday, April 30, 2010 5:46 PM

sorry i used the wrong words. the scenario is fine is just some  object placement needs adjustment.

 

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