Diorama "Ukraine, Summer 1943"

Model Maniac

major nuisance, hutchch and SuppressionFire, thanks so much for your kind comments and support! I really appreciate them!

My modeler "Art Instructor" not only build very good armors and dio's, he also built them fast - much faster than most modelers anywhere in the world. In just over two weeks he's churned out 7 more pieces of armors and diorama (2 Talon robots count as only 1). And believe me, they're his labor of love!

churn  (chûrn) n. A vessel or device in which cream or milk is agitated to separate the oily globules from the caseous and serous parts, used to make butter. v. churned, churn·ing, churns v.tr. 1. a. To agitate or stir (milk or cream) in order to make butter. b. To make by the agitation of milk or cream: churn butter. 2. To shake or agitate vigorously: wind churning up the piles of leaves. See Synonyms at agitate. 3. To buy and sell (a client's securities) frequently, especially in order to generate commissions. v.intr. 1. To make butter by operating a device that agitates cream or milk. 2. To move with or produce great agitation: waves churning in the storm; so angry it made my stomach churn. Phrasal Verb: churn out To produce in an abundant and automatic manner: churns out four novels a year. [Middle English chirne, from Old English cyrn, cyrin.] churner n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

churn out

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

That definition pretty much sums up the whole process. Maybe if you would slow him down a bit there wouldn't be so much negative criticism.  Food for thought.

major nuisance, hutchch and SuppressionFire, thanks so much for your kind comments and support! I really appreciate them!

My modeler "Art Instructor" not only build very good armors and dio's, he also built them fast - much faster than most modelers anywhere in the world. In just over two weeks he's churned out 7 more pieces of armors and diorama (2 Talon robots count as only 1). And believe me, they're his labor of love!

FineScale Modeler

The essential Magazine for model builders

Phil_H

 

hutchdh:

 

One more point, to be clear.  I see nothing overly wrong with MM's approach.  He is open about his approach and this is the way he enjoys the hobby, so I can't be too critical. 

 

 

Hi Hutch,

The only problem with MM's approach is that when he posts his er,... items, he only acknowledges the "attaboys" and usually completely ignores the constructive comments and suggestions offered in good faith.

For example, If you look at almost any tank/armour build by "Art Instructor", you will see that the roadwheel tyres are perfect black every time, despite the rest of the vehicle being heavily weathered. This has beem mentioned in replies to MM many, many times over the past several years, but it never gets back to his builder.

Ok, if he likes it that way then fine, but if one asks for comments, one should be prepared to accept all comments, not just the "attabloys". And THAT is the root of all the negativity that MM's posts incite.

Fair enough....I think that is a reasonable expectation for all of us that post. 

hutchdh

One more point, to be clear.  I see nothing overly wrong with MM's approach.  He is open about his approach and this is the way he enjoys the hobby, so I can't be too critical. 

Hi Hutch,

The only problem with MM's approach is that when he posts his er,... items, he only acknowledges the "attaboys" and usually completely ignores the constructive comments and suggestions offered in good faith.

For example, If you look at almost any tank/armour build by "Art Instructor", you will see that the roadwheel tyres are perfect black every time, despite the rest of the vehicle being heavily weathered. This has beem mentioned in replies to MM many, many times over the past several years, but it never gets back to his builder.

Ok, if he likes it that way then fine, but if one asks for comments, one should be prepared to accept all comments, not just the "attabloys". And THAT is the root of all the negativity that MM's posts incite.

One more point, to be clear.  I see nothing overly wrong with MM's approach.  He is open about his approach and this is the way he enjoys the hobby, so I can't be too critical. 

HeavyArty

 

MM likes what he made and wanted to share.  Good on him. 

 

No, all "his models"  are built by others and he simply collects them.  He hasn't built any of them.  It would be the same as someone buying a diecast toy and posting it looking for kudos of how good it looks.

His statement from another post sums up his take on it:

 

For me, these military models - Land, Air and Sea - are just toys for my collection. 

 

Oh.......now I see where you are coming from.  I guess I missed that subtle point. My bad.

MM likes what he made and wanted to share.  Good on him. 

No, all "his models"  are built by others and he simply collects them.  He hasn't built any of them.  It would be the same as someone buying a diecast toy and posting it looking for kudos of how good it looks.

His statement from another post sums up his take on it:

For me, these military models - Land, Air and Sea - are just toys for my collection. 

hutchdh

I like the diorama.  MM likes what he made and wanted to share.  Good on him.  Also, I see nothing wrong with the constructive criticism as many of you have pointed out a few things on my builds that helped raise my game.  But I find it counterproductive when some choose to go down the cut-down route.  I am glad MM has thick skin.

Model Maniac is a good example of how to soldier on under fire. He is satisfied with his collection of models and that is important.

Anyone who cannot admit to or point out a flaw or two in their own work lies or is delusional. From now on I will point out 10 flaws in my own builds on the rare occasion I get one completed in the 'GB&U' format.

I like the diorama.  MM likes what he made and wanted to share.  Good on him.  Also, I see nothing wrong with the constructive criticism as many of you have pointed out a few things on my builds that helped raise my game.  But I find it counterproductive when some choose to go down the cut-down route.  I am glad MM has thick skin.

bbrowniii

major nuisance:

   Now please, can we talk about the diorama.

 

What is there to talk about?  There is no diorama here.  A diorama should tell a story.  This does not.  Or if it does, that story is so complex as to be unintelligible. 

This is a collection of reasonably well built models placed together on the same base.  The scenery is pretty good, the water is nice.

 

Good point. 

I got a bit nosey and checked out a few sites to see what definitions of diorama was out there.  If a person was building a diorama "a la" convention then the following would matter.  Apologies to IPMS USA however there is some very good guidelines there.

IPMS/USA Competition Handbook 2002

http://www.ipmsusa.org/competition_handbook/CompHandbook2002.html

This paragraph would appear to sum up what is the crux of the critique of the Ukraine Diorama and similar Dioramas.

"A diorama is a combination of model(s) and a believable setting that tells a story, sets a mood, or creates a charged atmosphere. In addition to evaluating the modeling of a diorama's individual elements, the judges will consider the strength of the diorama's story line or mood and the overall presentation of the diorama. These three factors are equally important. Dioramas with superbly modeled components but a weak story line and presentation will almost certainly lose to a diorama with well-modeled components and strong story and presentation."

Taking into account the individual elements is equally important eg removing flash, pin marks, and all of the other 101 things to do in construction.  Then of course there is the painting or finishing.

"Model Components: The individual model components of a diorama will be judged according to the criteria specified in the appropriate individual class. That is, armor pieces will be subject to armor judging criteria while figures will be evaluated according to the figure modeling guidelines. As always, the basics of construction and finishing are of prime importance. Terrain, roadwork, buildings, and accessories that set the scene of the diorama will be evaluated similarly to the primary model components. Basic construction and finish are once again paramount."

Check out the IPMS/USA website for additional information.

Now the above is applicable if a person wants to apply or build to convention, or what is the accepted norm in the world of the diorama however the dark side might be that the diorama might be something that brings a person joy in the construction or the viewing that does not fit into this so called convention.  Shep Paine wrote about what might be true in real life does not make sense in the world of the miniature.  Oh well! back to the drawing board.

I trust these notes will uncover where some some of the other posters on this forum are coming from.  I agree that this hobby should be fun and not and many of you learn so much from other postings.  Still, for me, my enjoyment is this - I build for myself and yet that has gained me enough kudos to be commisioned to produce individual items and dioramas for individuals here and overseas including the National Army Musuem and other Military and City Museuems.  As for winning at competitions, I gave that up years ago after winning numerous awards at National and Local levels.  Why am I saying this.  I am prepared to lay my credentials on the line which gives me some understanding of knowing what the hang I am talking about.  I have not stopped learning from others and there is some amazing work on this and other sites that puts my own work to shame.

Me thinks about myself "Enough of this pratting on and ego puffing stance"

Power to your paint brush

major nuisance

   Now please, can we talk about the diorama.

What is there to talk about?  There is no diorama here.  A diorama should tell a story.  This does not.  Or if it does, that story is so complex as to be unintelligible. 

This is a collection of reasonably well built models placed together on the same base.  The scenery is pretty good, the water is nice.

My only point is that is a great way to enter a forum.  Try walking into a bar or a party and telling everyone they are all screwed up and see what that gets you.  I have never said anyone can't say what they want here.  The history comment is the history with good ol' MM.  He hasn't changed his ways over the years, probably never will.  If you read the critiques, you will learn a lot, so stick around.

HeavyArty

Yup, great way to get started in a forum where your first two posts blast the members without any knowledge of what has transpired here over the last few years.  Really classy.  Good job.

Gino, not very encouraging words.  Just wondering why some on this forum can say their opinion whilst others cannot.  Frankly these comments destroy rather than allow thev process of friendly discourse.  As for knowledge - Hmmn! history shows me that if we [society] do not learn from it we [society] are doomed to repeat history warts and all.  Regardless of the motives of anyone - collector, modeller and/or show off they should be shown the same respect.  So for me, when one has to resort to one line sarcastic comments tinged with I am bigger than you as I know more, reeks of attacks on the person/individual not the model, or in this case, the diorama.  Moderators, if posters could keep to the task of this forum - dioramas - rather than attacks on individuals I for one could learn a lot more.   Now please, can we talk about the diorama.

Thanks so much for your kind compliments and support, camaroqb!  It's about time the general public say NO to disgusting & despicable comments made by uneducated bullies around here.

fixed?

Yup, great way to get started in a forum where your first two posts blast the members without any knowledge of what has transpired here over the last few years.  Really classy.  Good job.

Nicely done!!!!

Always some ass cutting peoples work down. There are ways of giving constructive  feedback instead of nitpicking and being absolutly stupid about something, who gives a crap some guy is carrying a magnetic mine while he is on a dock?? jesus maybe they just went over to look at something?? and you know soldiers DO carry equipment on them. maybe they were walking with the tank and wanted to look into the water at some fishies?? lol  and not some stupid erronious secret submarine like some said??? its a diorama!!!!!!!! ITS MAKE BELIEVE!!!!!!! unless you state your re-creating an exact moment in time that something was done your depicting!!!!! I mean if someone were to do a diorama of someone on a shitter taking a dump you nitpickers would find something wrong with it like the toilet paper was going the wrong direction you know (facing up or down) North or South, modeling is supposed to be fun and critisizm is is supposed to be constructive on the issue an not stupid  you know the "tangable" object's about the diorama i/e Tank, Men, Scenery, not stupid things you cant see!!! use your imagination on whats going on!!!! why are they on the dock?? why is he carrying this or that?? jesus they were probl on patrol with the tank and they wanted to look at the water is all (maybe go fishing??) lol soldiers do screw off at times maybe their was a fish that jumped and they were going to look at it OR MAYBE THEIR WAS A MERMAID??? you ans some of the dumb questions picking it apart making fun of it. KUDOS to the guy who built it and had the balls to post it on here even though there are the ignorant idiotic nitpickers who make this (supposed to be fun hobby) not so fun, it is supposed to be enjoyable and I would hate to be the kids of the people nit picking the hell out of this diorama (YOU ARENT GOOD ENUF!!!!!) their kids probl got a real low self esteem issue. anyways to all the positive critics :good for you keep up the good positive feedback and SHAME!!! on all you other people.

p.s. sorry for any misspelled words <---- shame on me

dirkpitt77

   I have to agree with Jester.  There is a way to critique, and a way not to.  What's the old adage?  "If you have nothing nice to say...."?

 

      I would expect this behavior from a bunch of snarky, Starbucks-swilling twenty-somethings.   A bunch of old men doing it when they should know better is just a blight on the FSM forums.  Too bad.  People wonder why the hobby's dying.

 

    As for Model Maniac, I don't care what floats your boat.  I think your dio's look good.  They're far better than what I can do so far.  You keep right on posting.  I enjoy looking at them, no matter how they're made.  

Thanks so much for your kind comments and compliments,dirkpitt77! I also think so. More armors and dio are coming soon after this.

Jester75

I do remember that instance actually. And I totally disagree with the "it has to remain secret" type attitude. I am glad however that he did come back and share the technique here in the forums. And I dont particulary like his cherry picking replies however I cant say that I blame him for ignoring and not replying to the posts with the smart a** comments.

And as far as his personal deallings with his builders go, how is that absolutely any of your concern Al? IMO your sticking your nose into business that concerns neither these forums nor yourself. Just exaclty how much detail of these dealings do you actually even know about for fact, not assumption. You would paint a picture that MM has some kind of sweat shop in his basement and AI and Joh are a couple of 8 and 9 year olds working 24/7 all the while being geeked up on some drug to keep them going . As far as I'm concerned, god please let there be someone there to help me out when I'm about to lose my home and my family is fixing to be out on the streets because from my understanding, those were the terms of MM and AI's "deal".

The most toxic posters on this board are the ones like yourself, Gino, and others who are constantly scanning for new MM threads so you can spew your nonsense. The post is no longer about helping others and pointing out flaws for others to not when you inject this personall nonsense about your perception of MM's contracts with his builders whatever they are. I see several people posting about how much they appreciate the comments about innaccuracies or improper time frame for the titles his work and I too appreciate these things as I don't have the vast knowledge that Gino and others have. But that is not the problem here. The problem here is all the other pointless junk that gets posted along with those criticisms. It helps noone and nothing. Its is in itself a "toxic" poison here. These threads devolve in "nasty fests" due to stupid comments like..

"Well, that and his Tony Soprano style indenturing of his debtors then telling us he was going to cut off AI as a contractor because the loan was paid back. "

Your comments are very well written and they're so true. I can't thank you enough for the justice you've given to me and my builders. God bless you!

Oh, forgot to add this...do continue posting the builds from AI, Jon and Tuk. As I have said earlier there are those who would still like to see them and of course others who just can't stand them.

For others, it's just a hobby...no need to go balistic about it. Some are lucky to collect, others are lucky to be able to build them. It's an avenue to de-stress and not the reverse. If advise to something that's wrong turns a deaf ear, don't fret or feel the urge to throw verbal diarrhea. It's not worth it...move along to a thread that's willing to listen. There's lots to choose from here.

I'm getting out of this thread to another that's more positively productive.

Cheers,

Richard

Model Maniac

rtfoe, I have never stopped posting here. As far as I can remember, every new diorama, every new page, was posted here. You want Change? Go to Obama!

Awright...I hit the right nerve(not that I was aiming for it) and it's all coming out...spots and all. It's obvious you've been posting here all the time, I was talking about the one back home which you stopped posting in August 2007.

Looks like the topic is changing in your post and your build is being neglected again as usual. Shame though, the earlier builds were much better...bigger scope and more to see. However lately...sigh...very tiring...and no comment. Would like to offer advise but.......

.

   I have to agree with Jester.  There is a way to critique, and a way not to.  What's the old adage?  "If you have nothing nice to say...."?

      I would expect this behavior from a bunch of snarky, Starbucks-swilling twenty-somethings.   A bunch of old men doing it when they should know better is just a blight on the FSM forums.  Too bad.  People wonder why the hobby's dying.

    As for Model Maniac, I don't care what floats your boat.  I think your dio's look good.  They're far better than what I can do so far.  You keep right on posting.  I enjoy looking at them, no matter how they're made.  

Jester75

 My posts are about how you and others treat certain forum members. Its that simple, and really, it is that simple.  

I'm sure you really do believe it is 'that simple', Jester.  Honestly, I do.  However, you hvae to receognize that, simply as a result of the way they behave on this site, some members will be treated differently, just like anywhere else in life.  People BEGGED Model Maniac to become a more active member of this site for years.  He has, for the most part, refused.  For that reason, he gets treated differently.

And what infomation did he disclose here on the fourms Al?? Did he disclose that he was running some secret underground modeling sweatshop in Thailand that employs underage kids whom are whipped with bamboo shakes if they dont meet a deadline? If I remember, it was simply stated that AI got in some trouble with his mortgage or whatever and MM stepped in and paid his debts off and allowed him to work that debt off  building models for MM's museum. Isn't that the information that was dislcosed here many years ago when this MM bullying began? It is your assumption about his "Tony Soprano" style and how he treats his modelers. In fact neither you nor I can truly say how he treats his builders.

In all honesty I dont remember seeing anything about how Joh or Tuk I think his name is came to work for MM.

My job is dealing with people everyday so trust me, I dont need you to tell me that the world is always nice and "flowery"? Agreed to disagree and your name will not be brought up again by me.

Jester, it was MM who offered the information about his relationship with his builders. He put it out here for the whole world to see. No speculation on my part. If someone doesn't want to be called out on his/her behavior, he/she shouldn't be telling the world.

I can read your posts and see exactly what you are saying.  Like I said, I'll post what I feel like posting and you can do the same.  I have agreed to disagree and you will not change me.  Just face that the world isn't always nice and flowery and get over it.