Huey at unknown FireBase

Hey Prush, 

I really like it!  I think it's terrific, certainly can't tell that's your first attempt, looks more like you're a dio pro!

I have not been game to do a dio yet (though i have some ideas floating around in my head).

Can you give some more info about what you used for the base and ground work?

I love the huey and have a Dragon 1/35 in my stash - hope it comes out half as good as yours.

I'm with CML---that's a pretty stunning effort for a first diorama. Groundwork and accessories seem to blend flawlessly and compliment one another.

Well done!

Greg

Thanks for the comments, but believe me...it was a struggle. A LOT od fun, but a struggle.

The Revelle Huey is by no means a quality kit. I never did get the bottom seam to dissappear, so it will always be displayed on the "ground"

I built this dio as a photo platform for other 1/48 scale choppers in the future. A OH-^, and maybe a Cobra, so it will be ever changing.

All I used for the base was 1/4" masonite. If I were to do it again, I would probably use 3/8 plywood, or heavier.

The groundwork was done with Woodland Scenics plaster, layed over wadded up newspaper.

One layer was way too light and flimsy for my tastes, so there are 2 layers of their plaster cloth, as well as another layer of "paper towel" soaked in their plaster mix.

The tall grass, weeds, and turf, were also woodlands scenics products.

The "JUNGLE" (Palm trees, Bannana trees, and Nam bushes, were purchased from Military Scale Warehouse, and were very expenvise. I think this stuff is made in Korea and there are only 2 or 3 US distributers.

The little bit of jJungle that you see there cost me around $100 !!

You can bet, I wont be doing too many more jungle scenes

The ground crew, is from Verlindens "Ground Crew A", but like I said, I really want some real Marines and VC. The only place I have found what I want is from the Propaganda Kompany (France), and they are also extremely expensive. I have not bitten the bullet on them yet.

The jeep and artillery are from the 1/48 revell Ch-53 Super Jolly Green Gian, which is a wip right now.

The sandbags were home made. I used Kneadtite green stuff, but milliput or other epoxy putties will work just fine.

 Here are a few pics when it was a rough landscape. If you look closely, you can see that the landscape chaged as I added layers of plaster.

Over all, it was a LOT of fun to build, but I spent WAY too much money on it...probably because I had no idea what I was doing and bought stuff that I didnt need.

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I'll be gentle, Prush, but I will also be honest with you..

1:The 1/4 ton is a bit too clean..  Try "dirtying up" the windshield by cutting a couple "wiper-shaped" mask arcs from tape and apply them to the windshield. Then, give it a quick shot of DullCoat (or whatever celar flat you use).  Once dry, pull the mask off and the winsheild will have "Wipermarks" on it...

2: The overall painting and weathering is fine... But you stooped too soon.. The tires are too clean.. Carry some of the ground color up onto them.. This will "tie" it to the diorama and make it look like it's been there a while, and not just dropped by they Hog.. Check the drums too.. You got some "leaners"..

 1: Having the M101A1 in travel position is pretty unlikely on firebase... The guns get laid (meaning aimed, usually on an Azimuth Of Fire that can be any direction,  elevated to 300 mils) as soon as it's set up in a position,  and wil remain that way until a Fire Msission is called in.   The ammo boxes contain two rounds each, and will be broken out... The rounds will be set in the caps of fiber tubes they get shipped in, a round in one cap, the brass in the other...

2: Same thing again with the tires...  Also, the gun's tracks are missing, as are the tracks of the Prime Mover (truck) that it goes with.. This isn't all that important for your story though, as that gun could have been sling-loaded in... But the tracks would still be there, since the gun can't be dropped by the helo right on the firing position (it just moves around too much, forcing the guncrew to jockey it into position. Speaking from experience here) That is, of course, if you plan on putting into a firing position.. If not, then a crew could be made to be near it, getting ready to get it laid.. (Us Artillery guys always get the gun laid before we do... )

3: If you plan on putting the howitzer into position, you'll need to prepare the firing position a bit better, if the gun's emplaced... It will have fire-limiting stakes driven into the ground in front of the tube, as well as a min QE stake under the cradle, just aft of the front end..  (QE means "Quadrant Elevation" and the guns will have a minimum elevation that they can fire. If the cradle comes down far enough to touch it, the Section Chief won't fire that data.. Same for the left and right limit-stakes... If the tube traverses far enough to touch either one from the data, it's a "Check-Fire" moment..  Means that firing either below a safe elevation or left/right limit won't happen...

4: The sandbags making up the gun parapet should be about waist to chest high (on a 6-foot tall GI). Another route or maybe addition apart from sandbags is dirt-filed ammo crates... Also, the parapet should be almost a complete circle, with an opening at the rear of the trails big enough to allow a 2 1/2 truck to back in... They can even be hidden by tarps, as these GIs have done.. (Click on the link for the photo..)

http://www.namsense.com/10.jpg

Here's another parapet design using sandbags and the powder canisters for 155mm guns (dirt-filed 105mm fibers could be used for yours). Click on the link:

http://www.327infantry.org/files/Image/1_327_troops/Travis%20Arnold/Viet%20nam155%20Howitzer%20fire%20mission.jpg

Remember, these are just some tips I'm giving you.. Overall, I think you're off to a great start...

P.S. The Huey Hog kit is a "quality kit" for it's era... It just takes a lot of TLC (And not a little putty along that afore-mentioned bottom seam) to make it a great model....  After all, it's the modeler that takes any kit and makes it great..

This is pretty good, but a little more of the ground-color needed on the PSP to "Tie" it in...

I love this shot.. The "jungle" is FAR too close to the wire (Rome-Plows (armored D-7bulldozers) cleared the jungle back about 300-500 meters from the wire to dis-allow Charlie Cong and his Northern buddies, Nathaniel Victor, any cover or concealment within machinegun and howitzer APERS (AKA "Beehive" rounds, which are nasty  bullets unoque to the 105mm that will litterally nail anyone who experiences it to trees).. But for diorama work, compressing some things like that foliage into a reasonable size base is quite acceptable..  The foliage sets the location instantly for the viewer...

1:The 1/4 ton is a bit too clean.. Try "dirtying up" the windshield by cutting a couple "wiper-shaped" mask arcs from tape and apply them to the windshield. Then, give it a quick shot of DullCoat (or whatever celar flat you use). Once dry, pull the mask off and the winsheild will have "Wipermarks" on it...

I had not thought odf the dirty windshield weathering...but that is a GREAT Idea. Thanks

2: The overall painting and weathering is fine... But you stooped too soon.. The tires are too clean.. Carry some of the ground color up onto them.. This will "tie" it to the diorama and make it look like it's been there a while, and not just dropped by they Hog.. Check the drums too.. You got some "leaners"..

Again, thanks for the comment.

The weathering on the tires dissapeared when I dull coated. I used pastel chalk and it went away..lol.

I wasnt too worried about the jeep at this point, its just there to fill in a space. I would really like to find some 1/48 scale tires that are more realistic...tread pattern. The jeep and artillery piece are from a Revell Ch-53 kit, so no real accuracy was built in.

As far as the leaning drums, I am trying not to make this a NEAT firebase....ALL of the pictures I have seen of firebases show that house keeping was definatly NOT a priority.

:

2: Same thing again with the tires... Also, the gun's tracks are missing, as are the tracks of the Prime Mover (truck) that it goes with.. This isn't all that important for your story though, as that gun could have been sling-loaded in... But the tracks would still be there, since the gun can't be dropped by the helo right on the firing position (it just moves around too much, forcing the guncrew to jockey it into position. Speaking from experience here) That is, of course, if you plan on putting into a firing position.. If not, then a crew could be made to be near it, getting ready to get it laid.. (Us Artillery guys always get the gun laid before we do... )

I am a long way from setting final position, but you make an exellant point about the tire marks.

3: If you plan on putting the howitzer into position, you'll need to prepare the firing position a bit better, if the gun's emplaced... It will have fire-limiting stakes driven into the ground in front of the tube, as well as a min QE stake under the cradle, just aft of the front end.

I dont have a clue what you just said...

I will need to do some research if accuracy becomes important to me.

4: The sandbags making up the gun parapet should be about waist to chest high (on a 6-foot tall GI). Another route or maybe addition apart from sandbags is dirt-filed ammo crates... Also, the parapet should be almost a complete circle, with an opening at the rear of the trails big enough to allow a 2 1/2 truck to back in... They can even be hidden by tarps, as these GIs have done.. (Click on the link for the photo..)

Again, you make an exellant point, and in fact will also add visual appeal to the layout.

I am not ever going to be a detail oriented modeler (I think).

Im like the movie makers of the 40s and 50s. Remember when they painted a circle on a cessna and tried to make you belive it was a Japenese Zero?

Or what were the using as P=40s when they made "Flying Tiger" with John Wayne.

lol.

Thanks for the WONDERFUL comments.

Phil

I love this shot.. The "jungle" is FAR too close to the wire (Rome-Plows (armored D-7bulldozers) cleared the jungle back about 300-500 meters from the wire to dis-allow Charlie Cong and his Northern buddies, Nathaniel Victor, any cover or concealment within machinegun and howitzer APERS (AKA "Beehive" rounds, which are nasty bullets unoque to the 105mm that will litterally nail anyone who experiences it to trees).. But for diorama work, compressing some things like that foliage into a reasonable size base is quite acceptable.. The foliage sets the location instantly for the viewer...

Thanks for the comment.

I know what you are saying about the jungle spacing, but I am trying to draw a big picture on a small canvas. This is a 24" x 24" layout and I have to make a lot of comprimizes in order to tell the "story" that I want to tell.

Just wait till I put some VC figures in jungle...lol

agentg

While a wonderful first effort there were, as Hans pointed out, some details that could be improved on. 

The biggest thing that stood out for me was the bird is way too close to the wire. MrCharles could reach out and touch the Hog, and not in a good way.

 

 

I know what you are saying, but I just dont have the space to reproduce everything that i wanted to in scale.

The people that see this in my house are not vets, and dont know the specifics, but are able to visualize the picture that I am tring to present.

Firebase were, in fact, dirty, nasty places to be, and I am thinking about changing the ground work to illistrate more of a dust bowl enviroment.

I am "selling" this one as a "newly" established base in a jungle setting.

I am a LOOOOOOONG way from finishing this thing, and, in fact may realy never be satisfied with it. As long as I can "sell" the story, I think I can live with it.

I know you have said you are not interested in accuracy, but you should be.  What is the point in gathering feedback on how to improve it if you are not concerned with accuracy?

In addition to what has already been stated, the helicopter is inaccurate.  The USMC did not use UH-1Cs.  Also, they did not use the M-16 Armament system (Twin M60s and 7 shot rocket pods) with the nose mounted grenade launcher.  Also, the jeep is a civilian CJ5, not a military version.  The howitzer is sort of accurate.  It is a WWII version M1A1 howitzer.  Some were still in use by the USMC, but not many.  They were not pulled by the Jeep though, but 2 1/2 ton trucks, M35A1s

The scene doesn't look convincing to me at all.  The jungle is way too close, the wire is way too large for the scale and the openings in the loops are huge. 

Here is how a real Vietnam Firebase was laid out.  Helipad in the middle, gun emplacements around the perimeter, wire, cleared fields of fire 200-300 meters out, etc.

I would break this up into smaller dios.  One of just the helicopter, another of the gun position, etc.  Large dios usually have issues with dead space and realistic distances.  It looks better to have smaller. more accurate and  better laid out scenes than to try to cram a bunch of so-so scenes thrown together on a large base.

Of course the helicopter is innacurate.

It was built oob from a $15 plasic kit.

The same for the jeep and the howitzer. They were also part of a kit, mostly designed at the time, for kids.

I added the accessories and scenery, mainly because I just dont want to look at a plastic toy sitting on the shelf.

I definately applaud you and your work, and the way that it projects the realistic details of what it represents, but thats not the direction that I am headed in.

Thank you.

Whatever makes you happy.  Don't ask for comments though if you don't want anything other than smoke blown up your ass in the form of,  "The best ___ I have ever seen.  Looks great, great job.  Awesome...." 

If you are just building something without any reality in it, what does it matter?  It is then just a what-if piece and not based on reality, so who cares what it looks like.

Some of us are just trying to give realistic constructive criticism.  Just because you bought a kit and build it OOB, doesn't mean you can't portray it more accurately.  Markings are easy to change and not really that expensive.  A little research would also show that the helicopter is somewhat more accurate as a US Army UH-1C, especially if you remove the nose grenade launcher.  Easy fixes.