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Snow/Frozen Ground Question

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  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Anchorage, Alaska
Posted by lerxst1031 on Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:47 AM

Even after it snows, once the snow is driven on a few times and gets packed down, it will be rock hard.  Many of our roads here don't get plowed for a few days at a time and the accumulation supports dump trucks, etc.  Just an idea, it's probably similar with armor, if you want to model packed snow.

 

But anyway I'm on a tangent.  If there's anyone from the Alaskan interior here who can comment...but I've heard from folks in Fairbanks that the permafrost in the northern latitudes will support a house, for a while anyway, I guess until the heating begins to melt it -- and that's also dependent on the contractors testing the ground in the first place. 

Did this help, or is it drivvle?  It's been a long 3 day week...

Fred
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by matthew9 on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:22 PM
Excellent information. You have really explained it where even someone like me who has never had to deal with any kind of winter like you do. I have no experience with making bases with mud and or snow. So I'm going to try the tracks in snow with very little/to no mud. After all this will be a simple base, not a diorama. You have been a great help to my project, and I've learned something. Thanks!
Matt
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 11:06 AM

Yes to all. And maybe.

Up here in New England in the dead of winter the ground is pretty much rock solid and a tank would sit on that as it would on a paved road. Lakes freeze solidly enough that ice fisherman will drive their SUV's out to their fishing shacks and I can recall in the late 60's having seen cars racing on a pond. The ground will be just as frozen.

Snow is like rain, only colder and more annoying! Just as you in Texas can have a light rain shower which only moistens the soil but does not create mud, snow can cover the ground and the ground would not be muddy.

Also, consider that typically, an inch of snow equals about 1/10th inch of rain, not much. Snow will accumulate on both frozen and non frozen soil, depending on how cold it has been before the snow fell. Just as you wouldn't expect to see a vehicle covered in mud after a passing rain shower, a lilght covering of snow will not necessarily result in a muddy field.

After a very cold and dry spell. you could very easily have an accumulation of snow in which a tank could leave tracks yet show no mud. On the other hand, you could have a cold snap after a wet warm period where the snow would accumulate, and the ground would be wet and moist and your hypothetical tank would leave tracks and be muddied.

 

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by matthew9 on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:38 AM
Thanks. That is want I wanted to know. It will be for the Ardennes area. From the pictures I've seen, there was a little bit of every "winter" type ground conditions.
Matt
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by Tinker on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:43 PM

Matt:         The short answer is yes.  It would be possible for the ground to freeze with only a dusting of snow.  The location could be a wind-swept plain that's cold as h---, but only gets light snow.  You'll need to research the area of the world you're modeling and take a look at their weather for differing times of the year. 

" 'Polls' are surveys of uninformed people who think it's possible to get the answer wrong." ...Ann Coulter
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Snow/Frozen Ground Question
Posted by matthew9 on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:53 PM
I am building a Panter Ersatz, and am going to put it on a simple base with a little ground work. I have some questions about snow. I've only seen snow stick to the ground a few times in 45 years. It struck to the street once back in the 80's.  With this in mind, can ground become frozen to the point where a tank would not sink much into the mud? Is it possible to show a light dusting of snow on the ground  except where the tracks have been without the tank being bogged down in the mud? Any insight and advice would be appreciated.
Matt
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