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burnt out city

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  • Member since
    November 2005
burnt out city
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 10, 2003 8:46 PM
I am planning a 1/35 scale urban warfare scene at the moment. Germans occupying the town, with americans attacking.

I was wondering if any of you could offer advise on the best way to go about setting it all up?

I have thought of a few ways. I was initially going to make some "c" frames nail a chipboard base, and line the sides with structural plywood (150mm [6 inches] deep). I would then line the bottom with a waterproof building membrane. (the only problem with this is I want to add to it at a later date, and hiding the joint etc, but this can be overcome)

I was then going to fill with actual dirt and build and mould the landscape how I pleased, adding buildings and features whenever the need or a new idea arose.

I was going to actually mix concrete and mortar to scale Smile [:)] and build the actual buildings/footings, cut wood to scale to make the timber floors and boards and supports (being a structural draftsperson I can't help myself), and/or buy for example a Verlinden house front and construct the rest of the building to suit the scene.

I was wondering a few things, mainly due to my inexperience and future proofness of the project.

- Is there a better way than filling a box with straight dirt? could I perhaps have a styrofoam base and build the landscape with plaster (or something similar). I am only thinking this would limit options of change if I had the desire to do so. But perhaps it could be a bit of both, actual dirt and some sculpted scenery to suit? Has anyone done this?

- water, which is the best way to go? I have a river front and a bridge (I am tossing up whether to make this byself as well) in the scene. Are there any suggestions in cleart plastic perhaps to contain the water whilst not looking obvious? Or are there other solutions?

- I presume static grass is the way to go? It is readily available.

- actual buildings. I was thinking either actually making a mud type brick to scale or buying those brick kits, what are these like? I just haven't seen one yet, or just moulding a whole wall out of plaster and create the brick effect on this surface, thickening up the walls internally to rest a floor structure on if need be.

I have had a thorough search on the Verlinden productions site, any other manufacturer's that are recommended for military scenery?

Any other recommendations/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I am sorry if I have left details out, but I am new and just have a few thoughts floating around at an initial stage trying to nut out potential problems, but make it a decent build, without too much expense, hence the DIY stuff.

It would be good to hear from a few people

cheers
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Monday, November 10, 2003 8:57 PM
Someone here at the forum posted this link a couple of weeks back. It has a great tutorial on scale construction. Hope this helps a bit.
http://www.theboors.org/housetut.html
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 1:30 AM
don't forget most German towns were built around the center marktplatz and thus making the village, town, city kinda roundish not like the USA where we have ours blocked off in squares or rectangular shapes. It would be a safe bet to keep the shapes of the blocks organic looking in a nutshell. Ithink I have some birds eye pics of a couple old cities Rothenburg and maybe some of Wuerzburg?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 2:35 AM
thanks Sherman, that was a good link. Mine will be far bigger than that of course, but some ideas on materials and how to go about a few things.

Redleg, it'll probably be based on an occupied country, european of course. But I will, for authenticity perhaps base it on a specific area and try and find some pics.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by mark956 on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 4:21 PM
belisarius, Welcome to the forum and good luck on your diorama.
mark956
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:30 PM
thanks mark

It will be a learning experience that's for sure
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 7:47 AM
Here are my thoughts on this.
It sounds to me like this is going to be a big project, not only in time spent building it but the actual size.

One thing you might want to think about is the weight of the thing. I don´t know if you´re planning on transporting it anywhere but even if you only want to move it short distances it´s easier if it doesn´t weigh a ton.

If you have multiple buildings cast in plaster it will weigh quite a lot. If you use actual dirt and concrete it will weigh even more.

Another thing is that real concrete and dirt might not look realistic in a 1:35 scale model. It´s the same with wood where the grain of the wood can make it look strange.

I´d recommend using styrofoam with spackle as a base. Don´t worry about not being able to change it. You can always add new stuff or even cut out bits.

You can use a number of things as grass. If you want short grass you can use sawdust. If you want tall grass you can use hemp rope.

I remember doing a big project early in my 'carreer' and later on I wasn´t that satisfied with it. You might want to consider starting small and later on doing a larger thing?
Just my two cents.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Seattle, WA
Posted by RonUSMC on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 12:51 PM
Here are some dioramas to inspire you.

http://rongeorge.com/modules/Gallery/dioramas
http://finescalegallery.com Active Kits: 1/48 AM Avenger 1/35 Sd.Kfz 251 Ausf C
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 8:17 PM
jonasaberg

Yes I agree with the smaller scale thing, it is going to be a big project, but I was going to build it piece by piece and place it in place in the overall diorama ultimately. I have rethought in the meantime before reading your post and will go small first.
Also yes I have thought of the weight issue, hence I guess why I asked in the original for other methods etc. It really has to be ultimately transportable, as I will most definitely be moving in the future. So I was thinking a styrofoam box base and build up from it somehow.
Thanks for your comments, they were along the lines I was thinking.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:47 PM
my advice is to build a cardboard maquette of the whole thing before you start getting into final construction. That will help you with placement and viewer angle etc. It will save you alot of heartache later if you build something and then find it doesn't work for the scene you're trying to convey.

This should include, buildings, architectural structures, debris piles, vehicles and figures. See how it looks from different angles and how these elements interact with each other. It will help wth balance and composition and is much easier than trying to do everything as a final.

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 13, 2003 12:35 AM
thanks RonUSMC and Renarts for the comments, I will bear these in mind.

Just another thing. I read somewhere that someone used dirt and mould started to grow. Wonder if oven baking the dirt would eliminate this problem? I think I would rather use real dirt as opposed to sculpting some etc.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:13 PM
No problem....

No reason to use real dirt. Celuclay when it dries has a nice texture. It can be made to look like anything from mud to just plowed earth. I use a little sand that I have cooked to kill any spores or bacteria and plain kitty litter for larger rubble and or rocks. With a base coat, dark wash and light drybrush, the ground effect can be very pleasing and you only have to use enoguh dirt to fool the eye and provide some texture under close scrutiny.

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 14, 2003 10:18 AM
if ur going to use real dirt, zap it in the microwave or bake it to get rid of any little beasties and microorganisms !
sounds like ur gonna be busy for awhile with this one !
frostySmile [:)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 14, 2003 11:47 AM
I've just finished a diorama that sounds very similar...here's some things I did - take em or leave them : )

1 - I started with a routed stained base. This one I used a square shape, and nice frame-like edges. I stained it cherry. Then, I used masking tape to mark off about a 1/4 inch from the edge on all sides. This gives the finished diorama a VERY professional look...clean as a whistle. Other times I've done a circle and odd shaped one also, and for that I used frisket film. Just cut it out to the right dimension, and stuck it down over the edges I didn't want "sceniced"

2 - I actually used real dirt. But, I didn't actually make the ~base~ dirt. I sprayed 3M spray adhesive (the most powerful I could find!) down on the wood. I got some pretty fine dirt from under the deck outside, and I coated the sprayed area. After knocking off the extra (which you can do instantly, cuz that stuff is STICKY) - it really looked like a whole "dirted" surface! This will work also if you use any type of form under your "dirt layer"...with the spray, it covers perfectly. It even sticks down a lot of the bigger particles.

3. I used a Verlinden model for mine...although I always seemed to think that was not quite my style...ya know, out of a box. BUT, I painted it in black primer. It kinda sucks that stuff up. Then I went over all the bricks with a reddish brown (except for on the "concrete" bits) Then, I used chalk pastels (which are crazy cheap) to accent the different sections, browns and rusts for bricks, sand and light greys for concrete..etc. HOLY SMOKES did that look real. I used them on my fingers to highlight different things...the black background makes everything stand out..all the nicks and details.

So, I think what I put together looks pretty dang real...but, I can understand the quest for down to the nth degree detailing. Good luck!

Maybe I can get some pictures up...we'll see

ciao
-jonathan

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 15, 2003 3:30 AM
thanks again people. Kaalvin I will take all advise on board regardless, as I am just getting back into modelling (after at least 14 years) :-)
And this is a first at something this large scale. I just have a lot more patience etc now compared to when I was younger, hence I think I will (and actually am) do better this time around, and enjoying it.
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