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Be gentle...

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  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Manila, Philippines
Be gentle...
Posted by shrikes on Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:24 PM
Okay, this is the first time anyone (apart from RedKnight38) has seen any of my "finished" models (well, they're never really finished, are they?)... Shy [8)] It's not all that great but there's a lot i could learn from this one. This is a 1/72nd scale academy B-17F named "Miss Quachita". It's strictly out of the box work.

I'm not too happy about the details like the cockpit or the .50 cal. guns. Also, i can't seem to get the division between the colors straight (between the olive drab and the grey. I don't have an air brush so i painted it by hand). Also her seams are showing, especially between the canopy glass and the fusalage, running down the length of the fusalage and at the wing roots. Lastly, does anyone know an easier way to paint the canopy by brush without using fancy knick-knacks like bare metal foil (can't get my hands on the stuff!)?

Here she is:


Any suggestions? Comments are very welcome as long as you are gentle. Blush [:I] Tongue [:P]
Blackadder: This plan's as cunning as a fox that used to be Professor of cunning at Oxford University but has now moved on and is working with the U.N at the high commission of cunning planning
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: United Kingdom / Belgium
Posted by djmodels1999 on Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:30 PM
Well, it does not look as bad as you think, Shrikes... You have the (dis)advantadge of having built the model so you knw where things could have been better done, where the little mistakes are, but to us and anybody looking at your model 'in the flesh', most of those little mistakes will not be apparent. Don't be too hard on yourself. Your next model will be better, for sure, but all the same, it's a pretty good model you've got there already! Keep up the good work.

Domi
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:44 PM
Man, I wish my brush painting looked that good! I agree with Domi: You know where the improvements need to take place, but it looks to me like you have a lot of the basics down pretty well! Keep up the good work!
Gip Winecoff

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Sandusky Ohio, USA
Posted by Swanny on Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:45 PM
I agree with DJ, it's not that bad. Getting an airbrush would probably be a big help, hey, Christmas is right around the corner - maybe you should ask Santa for one?
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:40 PM
Shrikes,
either you are too harsh a critic, or you know how to take a flattering picture!! Smile [:)]
i am afraid to attempt 1/72, so i would not dare criticize.

i cannot recommend any masking technique for brush painting, as i do mine w/ the airbrush. sorry.

the B-17 looks good.
keep building. soon you will be as happy w/ your work as we are.

ed.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:48 PM
I agree with the others. It looks good to me.
Building models is a learning process. Things that disappointed you about about a particular build are improved (usually) in the next one.

The day I quit modelling will be the day that my build turns out "perfectly." There won't be anything left to learn. I hope I NEVER make a flawless model !
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: A Computer in Adrian, (SE) Michigan.
Posted by Lucien Harpress on Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:51 PM
Holy crud! I wish I did as halfway decent as that! Just remember, no matter how bad you do, there is always somewhere out there worse. Namely me!

(Note: Perhaps in about a year I might get some of my work up here [on the boards] as well. Maybe.)

Good luck on future projects!
That which does not kill you makes you stranger...
-The Joker
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 20, 2003 2:51 PM
You've done a marvilus job Shrikes. It looks great.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 20, 2003 3:18 PM
shrike,

It seems as though the others have misinterpreted your request for help. To help hide, or prevent, seams, I use Tenax 7R on the fuselage joints & wing-half joints. When used as indicated on the bottle, you'll get a raised bead of melted plastic along the seam that is very easily sanded off, leaving NO SEAM!! I understand that are other adhesives and techniques with which to accomplish this, but this is what I use. Your picture doesn't readily show the mistakes that you are asking about, so maybe that's why you're not getting the responses that you're looking for. The picture really does look great, by the way!!

As far as the wing root joint goes, once you have made sure that you have a STRONG bond for that joint, apply some putty (I use Squadron Green Putty, but I understand that other brands will work also) to the joint, and, after about 60 -120 seconds, wipe away the excess with a Q-Tip soaked in either alcohol or nail-polish remover (I've used both with no problems). You SHOULD wind up with a seam filled with with a very smooth application of putty that doesn't need any sanding. I forgot to mention that applying tape along either side of the joint before you apply the putty will help to keep unwanted excess putty from getting to other areas.

To mask a canopy, regular old masking tape will do the trick. Just cut some very narrow strips of it from your roll, then carefully apply the tape to the areas that you want no paint to touch. This technique is VERY time-consuming compared to using Bare-Metal Foil, but it works just as well. Just make sure that you hold your masked canopy near a light to make sure that it's correctly covered before you paint.

To get a good demarcation line between the upper and lower paint colors, you really do need an airbrush. I'm sure that it can be done with hand-brushing, but I could never accomplish it. Maybe someone else out there in modeling land can help with this item??

Anyway, I hope that this information has helped you out some. Good luck in your modeling endeavors!!
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Manila, Philippines
Posted by shrikes on Friday, November 21, 2003 12:56 AM
Thanks for the feedback, fellas. I suppose i souldn't be too harsh on myself (maybe i'm a perfectionist and don't know it! either that or a really bad photographer! Big Smile [:D]). I've tried putty before, but never with much success (probably because i didn't know about the tape, and the q-tip dipped in alcohol. Swanny's website was a big help on that one. Thanks, Swanny!!). The putty i currently have is the Italerri putty that comes in the tube. with this work just as well? there seem to be bits of dried putty mixed in. is this normal or has my putty dried out? Won't the paint work its way under the masking tape? I really need some of that bare metal foil. everyone in the forum swears by the stuff!! Any Filipino modelers know where i can get it here in manila???

On a side note, i just saw today that one of the edges of one of the decal has chipped off! And i used all of that Testor's decal set stuff, too! is there a better brand for this decal setting solution?

Sigh [sigh] I really need an airbrush... It'll be like learning how to paint all over again, what with maintenance, mixing the paint and the proper way to get an even coat and all...

Lots of questions, but i have one more: I'm currently working on a PBY5 Catalina and i just sprayed a coat of silver on it in the hopes of chipping away the upper coat of paint to make it look weathered. what's the best way to go about this (ei sandpaper, hobby knife, some kind of solvent?) should i be using one acrylic and one enamel or can i get away with using all one kind of paint?

Thanks again, guys! Big Smile [:D]
Blackadder: This plan's as cunning as a fox that used to be Professor of cunning at Oxford University but has now moved on and is working with the U.N at the high commission of cunning planning
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 21, 2003 3:12 AM
You might try the Tamiya (or any other) spray cans.
They are very handy for covering large areas with a single colour, with careful masking you can apply more than one colour.
I use them for big projects like my current one, a 1/32nd F4J and I have been more than impressed with the results.
You have to be careful and spray very fine layers of paint but I was happy with the results in the end.
I used my airbrush for touch up work.
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Friday, November 21, 2003 7:43 AM
Shrikes,
on keeping the paint from getting under the tape:
try to burnish (rub) the edges of the tape w/ a flat tipped toothpick
or the round end of a paintbrush handle so it gets a good seal.
and don't thin the paint too much (or at all).
i use Tamiya brand tape. it is a bit expensive, but a roll goes a LONG way, and it is worth every penny!
great product.

on the topic of liquid cements, i prefer the Ambroid product to the Tenax.
it is not as quick acting and gives me a bit more time to fiddle when needed.

ed.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Friday, November 21, 2003 7:48 AM
That's a good-lookin' B-17, Shrike!
Gary and the folks have posted some good advice here. As far as brush-painting canopy frames, you could just paint 'em freehand (no masking) with a fine brush, if you have steady hands and can paint straight lines. I did that with the old Monogram 1/48 B-29 decades ago, and looking at it now, that canopy was one of the best-looking parts of the kit!

Good luck with future builds, Shrike.
Looking forward to more pix!
~Brian
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 21, 2003 10:32 AM
Im kinda new for the modeling...So this is a newbie Blush [:I]

1. Get a airbrush, if you can... Lot of patience. I messed up in the early days..So be patiance. You'll be happy!! really happy.
2. Future! Awsome stuff.
3. Canopy...Ugg.. Patience is the key.
4. Learn how to do a putty job. I did not know to use it. I used to do the whole tube. But know I dont do that. Swanny told me to that..His site by the way.
5. Use the Tri-sanding stick(squandron). Great for a root wing. Awsome stuff.
6. PATIENCE. I have a problem for that...
7. Learn how to do the scribe the models. I'm "Luftwaffe freak" ,so I had to learn quick. You know the Bf 109 has a lot or scribing and the canopy too...eekkTongue [:P]

BTW the B-17 is very good!
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: A secret workshop somewhere in England
Posted by TANGO 1 on Friday, November 21, 2003 4:50 PM
Smile [:)]Hi Shrikes,

You've been given some good advice here the only thing left for me to add is don't be so hard on yourself!Wink [;)] I really like your B-17 and think you did a really good jobApprove [^]

Later,

Darren.Wink [;)]
Regards, Darren. C.A.G. FAA/USNFAW GB
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph on Saturday, November 22, 2003 12:17 AM


Hey Shrikes! Checked JMN's Hobby Shop in Harrison Plaza last night, there is still one Bare Metal Foil and I reserved it for you until Sunday (ll/23/03).Hope you get this message in time.

Your B-17 looks good. No reason to feel bad. This is a hobby and this is suppose to give you enjoyment. No problem with handpainting, most of my WWII aircrafts were handpainted. I have also an unbuilt Academy B-17F named Fort Alamo. Thanks to your photo I know now how the Academy kit will look assembled. Enjoy your modeling.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: UK
Posted by gregers on Saturday, November 22, 2003 8:19 AM
Hi Shrikes, i agree with the others, you are a little harsh on your self. that is a nice looking B17 there. i have still got a B17g that was ootb that i built years ago and compared to your model mine is scrap (with a silent "s" LOL) the tips that you already have been given should help you loads though. BTW your hand painting is great, when you have masked the edges of your canopy with the tape as mentioned by Gary D, it may quicker for you to fill the space left to mask with pva glue. this stuff just peels off when the paint is dry and leaves a nice clean canopy. hope this helps. Greg
Why torture yourself when life will do it for you?
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Cavite, Philippines
Posted by allan on Saturday, November 22, 2003 10:10 AM
Looks fine to me, Shrikes. Nice job with the B-17.

As has been said, you might want to try some Tamiya masking tape. Tack is good but will not (usually) peel off paint. Try applying whole strips of the tape to the windscreen, burnish the edges of the canopy will a pointed tool, then cut off tape over areas to be painted using an X-acto knife. Good luck!

No bucks, no Buck Rogers

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Central MI
Posted by therriman on Saturday, November 22, 2003 10:22 AM
We tend to be our own worst critics. I know I am.

It looks good. Especially for a brush paint job. Much better than my brush work.
Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Central USA
Posted by qmiester on Saturday, November 22, 2003 8:00 PM
Shrikes - I agree with the rest of the guys, you do good work and more importantly, want to improve your work - Couple of suggestions, I use white glue as a filler around my canopies - put it on, wipe off the excess with a dampened q-tip and let it dry. Then I touch it up with a fine tipped brush (glue dries glossy) - another way to do canopy frames is to get some decal material (preferably clear or white), paint it the color you want the frames (brush works fine here too) - let the paint dry for 24 hrs and then cut the decal into strips the same width as the canopy frames and apply to model Good luck
Q
Quincy
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Washington State
Posted by leemitcheltree on Sunday, November 23, 2003 12:59 AM
Actually, it's not really all the bad.......I wished my early models had looked that good. Took me many hears to create a model that I was remotely happy with.
Sounds like you're on the right track - being able to identify your mistakes and how to fix them.
Getting an airbrush and compressor will change your life Go for it.
Go to Bare Metal Foil's website and prder the stuff online. It'll also change your modelling habits forever and improve your models.
Cheers
LeeTree

Cheers, LeeTree
Remember, Safety Fast!!!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 23, 2003 4:22 PM
Your B-17 looks really nice. Remember--you build to please yourself. Use the advice of others and your own creativity and you will be surprised with the results.
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Manila, Philippines
Posted by shrikes on Sunday, November 23, 2003 6:43 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph
Hey Shrikes! Checked JMN's Hobby Shop in Harrison Plaza last night, there is still one Bare Metal Foil and I reserved it for you until Sunday (ll/23/03).Hope you get this message in time.


Actually, this B-17 was a fun build (it just didn't turn out as I expected). And I definitely know what I want to improve on... and thanks to nkm1416 I just might be on my way there! I ran off to Harrison Plaza (which is quite a run since I live near Proj. 4) and found JMN's Hobby shop. What a fantastic shop! It makes all the ones I've been to so far in Manila look like hardware stores. For the first time, I have access to detailed resin cockpits, aftermarket decals, aftermarket photoetched parts, and more! Whoa. Too bad that they're mostly for modern 1/48 jet aircraft... Lots of interesting kits too, example: A cut away submarine would make an interesting build!

Good Lord, I really pushed my bank account to the limit yesterday! Not only did they have one bare metal foil but two! I figured that it might be a while until I go back there, so I took both. Then I got one of those extra fine brushes (for my canopy work. I figure I'll just stick to painting canopies with a steady hand), a panel scriber, some paint and an Academy 1/72nd scale B-17G for good measure (My fifth B-17 and my first G model!) I'm becoming like Chris, stockpiling models under my bed (though I don't have a wife to hide it from... Tongue [:P])

Once again, maraming salamat, pare! (many thanks), NKM1416! Big Smile [:D]

Blackadder: This plan's as cunning as a fox that used to be Professor of cunning at Oxford University but has now moved on and is working with the U.N at the high commission of cunning planning
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph on Monday, November 24, 2003 1:48 AM


Don't mention it, it's nothing really. Basta modeler, anytime!
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Cavite, Philippines
Posted by allan on Monday, November 24, 2003 8:22 AM
Shrikes & nkm,

Say hi to Natalie for me. Its been a while. Btw, you might want to check out Hobbies & Comics in Makati Cinema Square. There are some unusual items you could find there.Wink [;)]

No bucks, no Buck Rogers

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Singapore
Posted by Tankbuster on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 11:07 PM
Howdy all,

If you have never tried this method of painting canopies, give it a shot. Take elmers white school glue, in a 50/50 mix with water and paint the area of the canopy you do not want painted. Use two coats, apply the second ater the first has dried. You can than shoot (or brush) the canopy with no worries. After the paint has dried, just use a needle or exacto knife and peel the glue off.

I read this little tip somewhere, its what I do and it work great. You can also use the elmers to temporarily position the canopy of over clear parts in place to paint.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by ardy299 on Thursday, November 27, 2003 8:13 PM
Thats a good lookin B-17 for a hand painted effort. Keep up the good work shrikes. And for masking canopies I've used the old Scotch Magic Tape method for years. Either for airbrushing or handbrushing. Here when you cut the tape, always use a new blade, and once you have a panel cut remove the excess then burnish edges, with the Magic tape you can see it go from a frosty appearance to an almost clear look. Use a round toothpick with an end carved to a chisel shape to remove the tape after painting, don't wait too long, this stuff seems to stick more and more with time. You can also use the toothpick to "chisel" away any paint that may have managed to get under the tape.

Bob



















  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Thursday, November 27, 2003 8:33 PM
Shrike:

Finish or not it already looked good. Don't worry about the problems you think it had. We are all like that. Don't loose sleep over it. Without an airbrush you did a fine job. Keep it up and keep sharing pics.

Good luck and more power, pare.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 28, 2003 3:44 PM
Shrike:
I can't add anything to the tips you already have been given. I was going to say to try and always use the best tools you can (sharp blades and that sort of thing) but you have already figured that out.

I would be proud to display that B-17. Great job!
Bruce
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