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P-47 vs The P-51.

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  • Member since
    November 2005
P-47 vs The P-51.
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 21, 2003 7:13 AM
Boy talk about a war of words between the P-51 and P-47 boys on the favorite fighter post. I saw alot of posts that argued which of these fighters was the best but I have to throw in my two cents on this sometimes very heated subject. I have alot of respect for the P-47 and the brave pilots that flew them they were there in the beginning fighting the mighty Luftwaffa. But the bottom line was is that the P-47 could not escourt the bombers all the way to deep targets in Germany which was a big thing if the Allied Bomb Campaign was to be successful. B-17's and B-24's were being lost at an alarming rate until the P-51 came along. Yes the P-47 was a rugged fighter and could take alot of punishment but again its range was limited and the Luftwaffa boys took advantage of its weakness. Also not all the fighter groups loved the P-47. One was the 4th fighter group. They hated the plane and if you dont believe me just ask Colonel Don Blakeslee. He would tell you what he and his boys thought of it. I have a freind that I talk to who was a member of the 354th Fighter Group "the pioneer Mustang group" and he has told me on several occasions that his group also had a big dislike for the P-47. The P-47 made its claim in the ground attack roll which it was very very good at but you want an all around fighter that could do almost everything it was asked to do it was the P-51 Mustang. Also there is all this talk about Gabreski being the best WW 2 ace in the European theater and yes he has the kills to prove it but had Major George Preddy lived and not been shot down by American ground artilery he would have come out as THE top ACE in Europe. Now if you want to talk about best pacific fighter it would be the F6F hellcat hands down. But because it wasnt beautiful like the Corsair it dont get the recognition it so well deserves. Well I've stated my veiws so feel free to argue P-47 boys!

Steve
  • Member since
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  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Friday, November 21, 2003 7:51 AM
I just think a big ol' razorback Jug looks cooler!
~Brian
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 21, 2003 8:02 AM
i prefer the Mustang
  • Member since
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  • From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posted by maddafinga on Friday, November 21, 2003 8:30 AM
I once talked to a pilot who had flown both of them, he said that he prefered the Jug out of the two of them. He felt safer in it. The Mustang turned better than the Jug, and was a bit faster at low altitudes, but the Jug had a better roll rate. I do really like the looks of the P-47, but I think that the Mustang is one of the most beautiful planes ever designed.
As far as the Pac goes, the F-4U was the best. The Hellcat was a great plane, but wasn't as fast, didn't climb or dive as well as the corsair, and only turned a little bit better.
Madda Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Tact is for those who lack the wit for sarcasm.--maddafinga
  • Member since
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  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Friday, November 21, 2003 9:13 AM
I asked the same question to my uncle who flew the P-51 in WW ll in the ETO. He said in an eye ball to eye ball dog fight the P-51 was better. If an enemy fighter got on your tail you were in trouble because the P-51 could not take much damage. One shot in the engine and you were done.

He flew the P-47 after the war and said it was a better aircraft, able to take all kinds of damage and still fly. The P&W R-2800 engine could be missing clyinders and still fly.

He also flew the F-51 in Korea and has often said the P-47 would have been a better ground attack aircraft for use in Korea.

His overall favorite WW ll era aircraft he flew is the P-38. Hi least favorite is the P-40. His ranking was P-38, P-47, P-51, and P-40.

Berny

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  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 21, 2003 9:17 AM
I think that the P-51 is better than the P-47. Not oly was it faster than the P-47 it had a longer range. Its top speed was over 400 miles and hour. It could out fight the P-47 any time.
  • Member since
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  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Friday, November 21, 2003 9:32 AM
Oops, sorry! Was the question, "which was the best?"
I thought it was, "which do we prefer, P-47s or P-51s?"

Good luck trying to decide which one was "best!"
It's always fun to hear folk's opinions, though.Big Smile [:D]
~Brian
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 21, 2003 9:38 AM
To me it seems like the Ford vs Chevy. Everyone has the best. (pilots and modelers)..

Everything in aviation is a trade off. All aircraft are comprimises. The two aircraft are going to have strengths and weaknesses. My 2 cents [2c]
  • Member since
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  • From: Connecticut, USA
Posted by Aurora-7 on Friday, November 21, 2003 9:39 AM
Arguments for 'The Best' are always difficult. No one plane can excel in all aspects of flight and ariel combat. A couple of surveys done in print and television specials for determining the best of the two always comes up infavor the the P-47 because it was considered more versatile than the P-51. The 51 had better flight characteristics but it was not as tough as the 47 so it could not carry out ground attacks as well. The 51's radiator was a liability for both air-to-air and air-to-ground engagements.

As a better plane and design, the P-51 is tops but as a combat machine the P-47 is tops. On a one-on-one the 51 would have the performance edge but that's not how wars are fought. And that reminds me of a phrase I've heard P-47 pilots say:

'If you want to send a picture home to your girl or wife you sat in a P-51. If you were going into combat you sat in a P-47'

Put me down for a Jug!

 

 

  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 21, 2003 9:43 AM
How do y'all get the pictures on the bottoms of ur reply
  • Member since
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  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Friday, November 21, 2003 10:38 AM
Hi, Mike! Just click on "Update Profile" up at the top of the screen, go to your profile, and you can put it in your "signature" box, like a regular picture. You'll have to bring your own "" symbols (take the space out after /img), then just put your picture's html in there.
There might be a better way, but that's how I figured it out myself!
~Brian
  • Member since
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  • From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Posted by Jeeves on Friday, November 21, 2003 11:17 AM
If I am ground-pounding-- I want to be in a Jug as the stray rifle bullet won't hurt me when it hits my engine....nothing like those big P&W radial engines....

Up high-- protecting bombers-- I like my chances in a Mustang much better. As long as I have eyes in the back of my head and don't get fixated, I can pretty easily keep anyone from getting behind me.

At least that's how it is for me when I fly online in FB or SDOE ;)
Mike
  • Member since
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  • From: The flat lands of the Southeast
Posted by styrene on Friday, November 21, 2003 12:12 PM
I always thought the two aircraft were created for different roles, and if that's the case, then trying to determine the best is apples and oranges. It's like asking, "What's the best, a Suzuki motorcycle or a Hummer?"

Of course the bottom line is: What difference does it make?

Gip Winecoff

1882: "God is dead"--F. Nietzsche

1900: "Nietzsche is dead"--God

  • Member since
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  • From: Connecticut, USA
Posted by Aurora-7 on Friday, November 21, 2003 2:44 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by styrene

I always thought the two aircraft were created for different roles


Gip Winecoff


Actually, the original role for the P-47 was to be a high-altitude interceptor -something the P-51 was definitely superior at.

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: NE Georgia
Posted by Keyworth on Friday, November 21, 2003 6:51 PM
Give me a T-Bolt for sheer survivability. The Mustang did a great job as an interceptor and bomber escort, but you had a better chance of getting home in one piece in a Jug.
"There's no problem that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosives"
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 21, 2003 7:10 PM
sorry I thought it was which do we prefer P 47s or P 51s? aswell
  • Member since
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  • From: NE Georgia
Posted by Keyworth on Friday, November 21, 2003 8:12 PM
As you can see, I have my biases. I like both but prefer the Thunderbolt. The Allied war effort would not have been as successful without both types in the air.
"There's no problem that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosives"
  • Member since
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  • From: Hayward, CA
Posted by MikeV on Friday, November 21, 2003 11:42 PM
I would agree that this argument is subjective and nobody is going to win it. Wink [;)]
I like both aircraft, although my favorite WWII aircraft would have to be the P-47 followed by the P-38 and the P-51.

Now if I could go back in time to WWII with an F-15E I could really show those ME109's the meaning of air superiority! Laugh [(-D]

Mike

Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom. " Charles Spurgeon
  • Member since
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  • From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posted by maddafinga on Saturday, November 22, 2003 3:09 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Aurora-7

QUOTE: Originally posted by styrene

I always thought the two aircraft were created for different roles


Gip Winecoff


Actually, the original role for the P-47 was to be a high-altitude interceptor -something the P-51 was definitely superior at.


Actually, up above 20k or so, the P-47 is faster than the Mustang. The supercharger in the Jug is like a washing machine, so it has the best high altitude performance. Remember, speed=life. In the mid altitudes, the Mustang is faster in level flight, and climbs a bit better, but nothing dives like a P-47. They're surprisingly equal, but above 20k, there's no comaprison.
Madda Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Tact is for those who lack the wit for sarcasm.--maddafinga
  • Member since
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  • From: Naples, FL
Posted by tempestjohnny on Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:02 PM
I once read an article about the toughness of the Jug. A pilot had to return to England because of engine trouble. On the way back he was jumped by a single Fw 190. He could not outrun or dogfight so he hunkered down in his armored seat and prayed. The Fw 190 emptied everything he had into the Jug. When the pilot realized he was OK he sat back up and waved to the German pilot who probably could not believe his eyes. When he returned to base he had over 200 holes in his airplane and NO oil in the engine. Put me down as a P-47 fan

 

  • Member since
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  • From: NE Georgia
Posted by Keyworth on Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:28 PM
The pilot was Bob Johnson of the 56th FG. They counted over 20 20MM holes as well. the a/c was carted off as junk when they finished cutting him out of the cockpit. The defense rests :D
"There's no problem that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosives"
  • Member since
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  • From: Central USA
Posted by qmiester on Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:36 PM
I'm a fan of both and over the years have been privileged to work on each. How ever, I had to go in harms way, I would want to go in something that had a radial engine up front. Its amazing the amount of damage one of those things will take and still come home. (I once was on a fire base and a B-26 came back from a fire that was 70 miles out with a hole in the cowl where one of the cylinders came out after it blew off the engine. Oil every where but it still ran). The flight manual on the 51 states that if you lose your coolant, the engine will quit in 15 minutes. My dad had a friend who flew a 51 out of England and spent the last 8 months of the war as a guest of the Luftwaffe. Seems he took a round thru the radiater and headed for the closest friendly territory, Switzerland, which was 20 minutes away. 5 minutes from the border, the engine siezed up and he was walking. It was his second mission.
Quincy
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Naples, FL
Posted by tempestjohnny on Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:38 PM
Ed I like the picture of the 56th P-47 you use on you replies. I have a Hasegawa that I did up in the same colors Fireball UN*K JOHN

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 22, 2003 9:56 PM
P-47.
Don't get me wrong, the P-51 is a beautiful aircraft and from what I've read it's a joy to fly (unless you don't drain the internal fuselage tank behind the pilot prior to the other tanks...they say it would swap ends on you if you didn't). I think for all around best between the two, the P-47 wins for protectability, ability to take punishment and still keep on flying, firepower (8X.50 cals), and it's performance as a ground attack fighter.
Just my opinion.
Now for the gentleman who said that the F4U Corsair was the best fighter in the PTO...Wrong. The F6F Hellcat was purpose built to go against the Zero and accounted for more enemy kills than all other fighters combined. The hellcat was rugged as well attesting to the Grumman "Iron Works" ability to produce tough aircraft.
The bentwing bird was beautiful, and I like it very much but as far as which was best...definately the Hellcat.
  • Member since
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  • From: Central MI
Posted by therriman on Saturday, November 22, 2003 10:48 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by MikeV

I would agree that this argument is subjective and nobody is going to win it. Wink [;)]
Mike


Mike sums it all up!!!
Tim H. "If your alone and you meet a Zero, run like hell. Your outnumbered" Capt Joe Foss, Guadalcanal 1942 Real Trucks have 18 wheels. Anything less is just a Toy! I am in shape. Hey, Round is a shape! Reality is a concept not yet proven.
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  • From: Third rock from the sun.
Posted by Woody on Sunday, November 23, 2003 3:00 AM
P-47's rule! Ok I said it, Ed. Now give me that five spot you promised so I can get that P-51 kit I've been eyeing at Hobby Lobby.Tongue [:P]

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 23, 2003 3:21 AM
I like the P-47 better because it used the same engine as the F4U Corsair - the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 radial. That engine could take a beating and keep on ticking. Supposedly, based on a few books I've read, it was (arguably) the best aircraft piston engine ever produced. The P-47, F4U, F6F, F7F, P-61, and others that I'm sure I'm forgetting, all used this engine.
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:40 AM
Give me the Mustang over the P-47 anyday when it comes to the ETO. The Jug as it was called could not do the most important thing and that was bomber escourt. If it wasnt for the Mustang the Allied bombing campaign would have failed. But in the end BOTH fighters did their respective jobs well. So which one was the best? I believe both were the best and thank god we had them when we did. Enough said.

Steve
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 23, 2003 10:06 AM
This is from my brother.....


I'd say the edge goes to the P-51...pilots being equal (which they never are). Jug dives a little better, but the 51 was no slouch either and had very high E retention. Edge in speed goes to the 51 and it had better climb over 20,000 ft. What the 51 was best at was high speed turning. If I was a 51 pilot, I'd put the plane nose down...the 47 would catch me and I'd go into a sharp turn.... If the 47 pilot knew what he was doing, he'd probably go straight into a zoom climb and depending on altitude I'd have to climb after him. He'd then have to dive away...which he could, but I'd catch him eventually due to my speed and fuel advantage; after he ran out of altitude...fight over!!
  • Member since
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  • From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posted by maddafinga on Sunday, November 23, 2003 3:49 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by EasyCo

This is from my brother.....


I'd say the edge goes to the P-51...pilots being equal (which they never are). Jug dives a little better, but the 51 was no slouch either and had very high E retention. Edge in speed goes to the 51 and it had better climb over 20,000 ft. What the 51 was best at was high speed turning. If I was a 51 pilot, I'd put the plane nose down...the 47 would catch me and I'd go into a sharp turn.... If the 47 pilot knew what he was doing, he'd probably go straight into a zoom climb and depending on altitude I'd have to climb after him. He'd then have to dive away...which he could, but I'd catch him eventually due to my speed and fuel advantage; after he ran out of altitude...fight over!!



If you dove in your Mustang, and I went into a zoom with my Jug, I'd hammerhead at the top and have a good clear shot at your top as you climb back up to me. Game over.

There is also the option to performa lag roll and just follow that sharp turn. A good pilot can account for just about any maneuver there is. Robert Johnson beat a high Spit 9 with his Jug in a mock dogfight. Acm is like chess, there are moves, and counters, and counters to counters and counters to counters counters etc... It's a beautiful thing.

Madda Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Tact is for those who lack the wit for sarcasm.--maddafinga
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