muzzle & ejection port tape

QUOTE: Originally posted by garydmason Going back to the ejector port tape being thin enough for the shells to break through, what kept the mud and dirt from doing the same???? Something just doesn't sound right about this.

Probably the weight and the momentum of the shells would be enough to penetrate the ejector tape/newspaper but not of the dirt and sand.

Never seen mud on an airplane? I had a customer that owns a 1946 Navion nav-4 (one owner aircraft btw). He operated it from his grass strip for years during all sorts of weather. We were constantly picking grass, mud, twigs and God only knows what else out of that thing.

The gentlemens name was Crocker Snow. He's a bit of an aviation legend in this neck of the woods. Check out this link to see his aircraft which I still maintain today for crockers son-in-law. It's been featured in many magazines.

Also check out his pilot license....It's signed by ORVILLE WRIGHT, no kidding! Its all the way over to the right in the row of pictures.

http://www.acone.org/nics.htm

Darren

Going back to the ejector port tape being thin enough for the shells to break through, what kept the mud and dirt from doing the same???? Something just doesn't sound right about this.

Believe this or not It was actually called gun tape. we now commonly refer to it as duct tape. It was devoped especially for that purpose for the navy but was soon in full use every where. I had this story told to me as a kid by my grandfather who worked in a factory that made the stuff.

As promised, look at the tape (or whatever) applied to the ejection ports on this Aleution P-40E flown by Chenault's son (his variation of the flying tiger scheme).

http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/3wing/units/history/webdocs/P-40E%2011FS.htm

Gun barrels on early Spits (Mk I, II, Va's) were recessed along the leading edges. Later Spits (Mk Vb and up) had 20mm cannon.

Just another idea for duplicating the tape on a spit. Use a section of red decal (maybe from the center of an extra Brit roundel) cut into a square to put over the hole in the wing.

Maybe someone else can confirm this... I think the gun barrels on a spit were completely recessed into the hole - ie. the barrel didn't stick outside the outer surface of the wing profile. A decal, like the tape on the real plane, would stretch across the hole - but still show a little dimple where the hole was.

I am speaking about gun stoppages caused by freezing temps at altitude. Yes, the tape helped with sand particles but mud? I have never seen mud on the leading edge of an a/c. As for the ejection chutes, and I am again talking about the RAF and the SPITFIRE again here, the ejection chutes were sometimes covered on wet grass aerodromes to protect them from being splashed by the undercart and then freezing up the ejection chute with ice and causing the gun to jam. Newspaper was used on the ejection chutes for this purpose. The spent cartriges and links would easily break through the paper.
I have no idea if the Yanks did likewise.
Cheers
Bob S.

I recently finished reading Bob Johnson's autobiography "Thunderbolt!", and in it he makes reference to tape being over the gun barrels of his P-47, so they were done on those aircraft too. I've never tried to recreate this detail, but I remember when my Dad did it for his F4U Corsair he used mssking tape cut to the correct size. Hope this helps some.

The tape was also used to see if the gun jammed in the British aircraft. The tape would blow out if there was a jammed barrel but if it didnt it would be a round whole from books i have read on the subject.

Sure is. I think all of the replies have been great...thanks guys.

Well, I happened to run across one of the GS dudes from the base historical office on Elmendorf AFB today at the barber shop. I asked him about the tape and he said it was standard practice for all 11AF units in the Aleution Theater. Now get this...not only did fighters (P-40E, P-39D, P-38E) tape their gun muzzles AND ejection ports, but the bombers did the same!!! albeit just the muzzles. The dude said the ejection ports under the wings of P-40's and P-39's especially would get alot of water/mud slung up into them while operating from the austere Aleution airstrips. This stuff would freeze at altitude and caused serious problems. He said as soon as the guns fired, the spent casings had no problem breaking through the thin tape applied to the ejection ports. He invited me over to his office for pictures of this so more to come!

I agree with didfal - if you taped up the ejection ports, how do the spent shell casings come out? I don't think that they would have enough weight to tear through the tape. Plus, not much mud or debris would get to the guns through the ejection ports anyway. I'm not doubting you, salbando - I'm sure that some unit probably did this. I just can't understand why they would. Oh well.

As far as modern jets go, they don't have a 13' diameter propeller in front of the guns ramming dirt & mud at high velocity into their gun barrels from dirt airstrips. Jets taxi & take off from asphalt and concrete. Hence, no need to cover up the guns with tape (except maybe in desert areas, and, even then, that doesn't always happen).

Ain't this a fun coversation??

Hey Berny13:
Coming from the front lines with the A-10 we never put anything in the barrels when we where deployed, we left them out and exposed but we do have a cover for them when they are on display and/or when adverse weather hits (just a dust cover) and is remeved before pilots shows for flight,
For the gun openings & ejection ports they are covered for the dust, and FODing of the guns also the tape was masking tape, and even an early version of duct tape that was used

OK, I can see the reasons for taping the guns, but not the ejection ports. Like where are the the shells gonna go? Now, if it was used as a 'Remove Before Flight" thingy, OK.

I "taped" my Spitfire with a red "Sharpie" marker and it looks pretty good.

The practice of "taping" muzzles stills occurs today...in Afghanistan and Iraq, Marines were using black electrical tape around the muzzles of their M16A2s to primarily keep the dust out, and the tape is thin enough not to hamper the operational cycle of the weapon. If it ain't broke...don't fix it.

Carl

I have also used masking tape painted red. I used it on a Spitfire, but did not poke holes it them.

I did it on my Tamiya Beaufighter a while back...I used small pieces of masking tape painted red, poked a hole through them with a tack from the inside, and glued them down over the gun barrel holes....added some carbon streaking and I think it looks great!

Thanks for all the info.
Gary,
Firstly thanks for the info especially the "extra guns" technique. I did however see pictures of Aleution Islands P-40E's with their ejection ports taped up as well as their gun muzzles. Makes sense to me considering the danger of FOD from the mud, snow, and water cover airfields in the Aleutions. I still haven't figured out how to include photos on this forum or else I would include them.

My second question was whether anyone portaryed this muzzle taping on any models that they've done. If so, how did it look? If not, Why not?

Bob Swadling,

I've got to agree with the other guys - the tape WAS used to keep out dirt. Especially if you were in the Pacific Theater of Operations, excessive amounts of coral dust and mud kicked up by the props would, and many times DID, jam the guns. Of course, the jammed guns weren't discovered until it was too late to do anything about it (i.e., in the air on the tail of a Zero). I don't remember ever seeing anything about the ejector ports covered up, though. I can't think of any reason why they would be.


SalBando,

Anyway, on Marine Corsairs and Hellcats, white tape was used, usually applied in an X fashion. Sometimes, even though there were only six guns on each of these aircraft, the Marines would add extra tape to make it look like there were eight to ten guns instead of six. Had something to do with "psyching out" the Japanese. I've seen quite a few pictures of this practice in my references, and it looks neat. Imagine a Corsair with eight guns............

Bob.

In the Pacific war area the gun barrels were also taped. They didn't have the problem of freezing as much as sand or coral dust getting in them causing erosion.

Even in Desert Storm the gun barrels were taped to keep sand out of them. A grain of fine sand would cause erosion of the barrel.

The tape was NOT ther to keep bugs and dirt out and had no other purpose other than to keep the guns warm at altitude. It did have the second effect of letting armourers know that the guns had fired as they would whistle in the slipstream but was really not near as important as keeping them from freezing up.
John, the Brits didn't "always" use them on the Spitfire. Before spring 1940 they simply left them open and cursed the gun stoppages. The 1/48th Tamiya Mk Ia Spitfire kit even has the protruding muzzle flash eliminators on the two outer .303's which I have never seen taped. These of course were removed early in the Spitfire's career after it was discovered that she was just not going to be a night fighter too as she was ordered to do.
I am glad that you guys are not refering to the muzzles being coverd with doped-on patches of fabric. It was indeed tape and I have a video of a Spit being serviced in wartime and the armourer finishes the job by applying a cloth tape from a shiney paper backing.
Cheers
Bob S.

The Brits in WWII used squares of red tape over the gun ports. These are the red patches you can always see on Spitfire and Hurricane models.

The gun were taped for two reasons. The first was to keep out moisture, sand or other objects out of the barrels. The British were the first to tape the guns. After they were cleaned and oiled, a swab soaked with anti-freeze was run down the barrel. They were then taped. The American forces in Europe said that wasn't necessary and after they had a few barrels explode due to frozen moisture in them, they soon started doing it too.

The second reason, tape was put over the opening, as a way of showing the guns were cleaned and loaded.

I saw an A-10 at an air show last year that had plastic plugs in the gun barrels. So, it is still being done today.

Marines and Navy Aircraft in the Pacific often had their muzzles and ejection ports covered by tape. The picture I'm looking at now shows a Corsair with what looks like white tape (black and white photo). I read something recently in this forum about someone cutting a white sticker into squares to acheive this effect. I haven't tried it myself (yet).