Bf109's WHO CARES

They sell.

The Germans did try to save them, from 1939 to 1945, only the Allies had other ideas!

Every manufacturer makes a P51 & a Spitfire, and they still ended up the scrap heaps by their thousands after the war!

Karl

The RAF Museum at Hendon still has an E and there was an airworthy G in the UK until someone crashed it at Duxford.

I think the Commemerative Air Force out of Midland Texas has one.

Airframes are a pain in the rear end to take care of. Thankfully there are some people willing to dedicate alot of their time to preserving them.

QUOTE: Originally posted by STRETCH The germans didn't save any, Why does every model manuf. make one?

Why shouldn't they make one?

Its called a historic aircraft, that’s why they get made
And supply and demand

I have to say I'm sick of all the 109's and 190's. Every version possible while manufacturers ignore other subjects or keep releasing old substandard toolings. How about a new F-5 series. F-8 in 1/72 (plus RF-8G). I'd always wanted a good M2F-2/3 (lifing body). A good F-100, etc... Who needs a billion 190's and 109's while these are ignored?

I am a big fan of the 190 and the 109 and was delighted to see the new Hasegawa 32nd kits - and I stress NEW.
I do not think much of their old offerings in this scale and was dissapointed to see that the A/F series 190 is still the old mould. I think thet they should phase out the older kits and replace them as signs of wear are starting to appear and the sink holes now need half a tube of filler per kit to eradicate.
Its high time the 109E was replaced.
These kits must sell , otherwise the newer kits would not be made.
I just want to see some decent spitfire I, V, IX and XVI and some decent hurricanes in 1/32.

FYI .The germans still have at least one bf109 in their Deutsches Museum in Munich.check out the link below.

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/index800.htm

Some Germans are VERY interested in both the 190 and the 109.
Flugwerke GmBh is doing a 98% exact flying replica of the 190 and is manufacturing
parts for the 109. Check it out.
http://www.flugwerk.de/new/me109/index.shtm
Ray Marotta

I'd still like to see hasegawa do a FJ Fury before I see another 190 or 109.

I think the Germans were too busy trying to rebuild after the war to collect momentoes of it. The question should be "why didn't the Allied powers make an attempt to preserve more of the German propeller A/C rather then looting their jet and rocket technology..?"

QUOTE: Originally posted by plum1030 I'd still like to see hasegawa do a FJ Fury before I see another 190 or 109.

Amen to that!

The notion that all the model companies are releasing 109's and 190's and nothing else is absurd. There's been more kit releases of new subjects which haven't been kitted before in all scales over the last ten years than there has been in the last 30 years. Open your eyes...

As to the who cares bit, it all comes down to personal preference. I find aircraft of the Luftwaffe to be just as interesting, actually more interesting, in certain aspects, than those of the USAAF. That's just my personal preference. I happen to find the aircraft of certain small air forces of the world, both vintage and modern, to be more interesting than either the Luftwaffe or the USAAF. That's just me, though.

The reason these two appear so often in kit form is because they're popular and they will $ell. That's what it comes down to, dollar signs.

Also, it's not that there's "a billion" 109's out there. They release several boxings of the same basic kit with different markings (and usually new parts for a different variant) to appeal not only to those who want to build every possible variant but also to the collectors. There are guys who will buy every release that comes out simply to add it to their collection and the model manufacturers know it. They're not stupid.

One has to remember that producing kits takes alotta money and effort; they can't just whip 'em out whenever we start bawling for a new kit of a specific subject. Despite this, I think the manufacturers have, as a whole, done a damn good job in supplying us with a variety of subjects to model. Including better 109's and 190's.

As to preserved aircraft, though not as many as Mustangs and the like, there's a good number of 109's in the world these days. Maybe not so many 190's though. Besides, what's the fact that there are few of them left got to do with the fact that 'every' model company has a kit of one or both of them?


Fade to Black...

There is a large proliferation of 109 kits out there and always has been. Partly it is that they sell, and there seems to be a real draw to just about any WWII German subject matter by just as large a proliferation of modelers

I don't mind the 109, she's a classic and more than worthy of as much preservation as we can give her type.

What I would like to see is more mainstream 109 kits with their focus on pre war and post war variants. Hobbycraft issued a couple of Czech built Avia post war variants of the 109 and I belive a Spanish Civil War variant of it as well in 1/48. Thats interesting and just as valid a part of the 109 story as what the Germans did with them during the war.

The true proving ground of many of the combat types Germany went into the war with was the Spanish Civil War, early 109s and Heinkel 111s were extensively used and refined in that battle.

The 109 will always be on hobby shop shelves, its a good introductory subject for a newcomer to they hobby due to its general simplicity. I do hope that the scope is widened on the lesser known 109 variants before we see another kit of an E or G.

Personally, for myself, I'd like to see a fresh tooling of an F-101F Voodoo in 1/48 before another WWII era 109 kit comes out.

I thank you all for your responses. I did see one of those % jobs at an air show @ Chino CA. It is a VERY nice looking aircraft! My thought is the constant issue re-issue of these planes. But if they sell .. they sell. I think a Model Manuf. should step-up and make some civilian aircraft in at least 1/72 ( 1/48 would be nice) of say a KingAir, 310, 414. Gulf IV or V a Senneca or some Fire Bombers? You guys are great, If you want to KNOW about models this is the place Thanks again..

Another reason for the Bf 109 being such a prolific kit is that the Germans made nearly 35,000 of them, one of the lagest production runs in history. They fought in every battle from the Spanish Civil to the end of WWII and beyond. A lot of German pilots made Ace in them as well as many Allied pilots made Ace against them. It's a highly recognized and not to mention a pretty sleek aircraft.
I'd like to see other aircraft kits on the market too but until the hobby becomes so popular that companies can make kits that are not as main steam as the 109 and still turn a profit on them, I'll be glad that they are trying to get better at the kits that do sell well. Anybody like the quality of the late 70's models?
Promote the hobby, buy more kits, and as the hobby grows we'll get the models we want.
There is a good G model at the Air Force Museum at Wright Patterson AFB OH

If model companies sell lots of 109's and 190's that helps their
bottom line. It also gives them more money to invest in retooling or brand new
kits never before produced. Blackwolf's right look at all of the different kits
available and the quality of most. Excellent idea's Charles they would help
bring new kits to market for all modelers.
Fuzzy

Hey...if they sell enough 109"s...Maybe we'll get a new, re-tooled B-17 F or G in 1/48th scale....won't hold my breath though.

I think the point I was trying to make is that we seem to get every minor variant of the 109/190 in excellent toolings from every manufaturer before we see one decent FJ fury or new tooling of F-5/t-38 or F-106 or Mig 25 or su-22 or su-27 series, the list goes on and on. I've only bought one 109 and one 190 and I have no plans to buy anymore but I would definitely buy several from a decent F-5 series or retooled migs/su-X.

It appears to me that the crust of this thread involves the frustration experienced by some of us, who for some mysterious reason, think of Historic/Modern fixed wing aircraft outside the context of WWII/Military.

Yes there are some civilian models available, but they are few and far between, and it is practically impossible to locate any cast resin or PE sets for them, if you do happen to find one you like. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Military models, but it would be refreshing to be able to find a 1/48 or 1/32 scale Yellow & Orange Aeronca 7AC, or a chrome finished Luscomb (like the finishes Testors ran that time), or how about the most popular small business airplane through the sixties and early seventies, the Beechcraft B-55 Baron (T-42A), King Air (C-12), or Queen Air (U-21)?

"But the WWII aircraft sell really good".... yeah, and a comprehensive civilian line would sell good also, probably a lot better than these model manufacturers even realize, because what were all the Fighter Jocks flying BEFORE the P-51's, Bf109's, F-86's & F-15's? Heck, I bet they got/get kinda flustered also, when they went/go out looking for a model of the plane they learned to fly in.

For those of us who are/have been Pilots, we can attest to the fact that out of ALL types and theatre's of operation we have flown, NO other aircraft touched us quite like the one we SOLOED in!


Frank

I personally was GLAD to see my new Hasegawa 1/32 Fw-190D9 on my b-day.. It will be my next build..

I've heard this complaint (argument?) for over 40 years and have finally decided that no matter how much you bitch and moan, it most likely ain't gonna happen. The bottom line to the large manufacturers is profit. And the majority of the time, they are going to go with the items which has made them a profit in the past. So we get the same P51/Bf109/Spitfire/Fw190/Zero/F4/F/A19/F14 upgrade (or more likely the exact same kit in a new box w/new set of decals and a new price tag, usually $5 more than the last time it was released). Yea, every once in a while they do suprise us (like Revells BV 222) but believe me, the major manufacturers tend to produce what the general public will buy, not necessarily what the serious modeler wants. Trainers? Other than the (A)T-6 and the PT13/17 (speaking 1/72 here, cause I know there have been a couple of others in 1/48) I don't believe any major manufacturer has produced any. Civilian aircraft? Forget it. X planes? Other than the X-1 and X-15 I rather doubt you will ever see very many from the major manufacturers (I could be pleasently suprised though)
Unfortunatly military sells.

So where does this leave us? Well there are several possible avenues.
A. Continue to bitch and moan - but odds against you are very very large
B. Scratchbuild - I can't do it but maybe you can
C.Garage kits - there're a lot of them out there, producing kits that no one else will out of
different materials (resin, vacu form etc) - they tend to be high priced and take a lot of
work to get a good finished product.
E. Eastern European manufacturers - they are producing a lot of kits the major
manufacturers won't. Their overhead is nowhere near as large and the quality of
their kits reflects that. But by the same token, they may be much more likely to listen
to what you want. (It appears they put out what the serious modeler wants) You just
to put a little more work into them.


oldhooker
When someone mentions fighter jocks I allways think either

You can tell a fighter pilot.....but not much (unknown)
or
Fighter pilots make movies, Attack pilots make history. (sign in VA ready room)
or
You are not Superman (Marines and Fighter pilots take note) (Murphys rules of combat)
lol

Right you are, gmiester,

The Eastern European angle seems the most logical route for sure, so I think I'm going to write some letters. Surly there is someone with the means and ability, who could visualize the potential in DARING to introduce something different for a change! Maybe they won't be master quality and require a little extra working, but hey, it's been years since I built a kit straight from the box anyhow, so what's the difference?

I feel the high dollar companies will take notice when they see how popular a Civilian/Training/X Plane/Experimental series would be with everyday people, and wish they would have taken the initiative themselves. You want to see a small example of my projection in action? Every once in a while on E-Bay, you can find the old Aurora Aero Commander, or Cessna 310, or Jet Commander kits.... which draw many bidders to their auctions, which drives ups the cost, thus reflecting *Demand*. (as you said, however, the Big companies definition of Demand is much different than ours) I guess they're using the old Vanilla Ice Cream theory: "Why bother making OTHER flavors, when everybody likes Vanilla" The only problem with that theory..... whomever dares to introduce strawberry, chocolate, and rocky road (God Forbid), would really be taking a big chance!! ie: Basken Robbins... (get it?)

Speaking of those old Aurora kits.... many of them were products of the interest generated by that 1960's television series "Sky King".

Thank you for the motivation,
Frank

I'd like to point out as well that Fujimi did release the F7U series and Hasegawa released the F-20 and flying pancake. I would think that many other subjects would sell better.

Nobody would buy a new 1/48 series of American bombers.



That was meat in jest. If any manufacturer is reading this how about it huh? Stop the endless variants of 'Stangs and 109 and 190's, let's see some new B-17, B-26, B-24 and B-29 variants.