Natural Metal Finishes?

All the above janus.

If you have an airbrush, I'd reccomend Testors Metalizers. They do a good job and it is easy to apply.

I've never tried foil (Bare-Metal brand or typical household Aluminum with an adhesive) but I've heard good things. I think I'm going to try it soon. A lot of people swear by this stuff and it beats masking for airbrushing sometimes.

Search these forums. There area quite a few threads on the subject.

Toad

I haven't tried them yet, but I'm told Alclad paints give the best finish.

SNJ metal spray with its buffing powder is also highly recommended.

I just recently tried Bare Metal Foil for the first time, and am very pleased with its result: http://members.fortunecity.com/jpayne/models/ICKY010.jpg

janus,

The methods I'm aware of are:
1. Bare Metal Foil (or a competitive, similar product)
2. SNJ Spray dMetal (sprayed with airbrush). They also sell a 'powder' that is polished into the paint after it has dried.
3. Testors Metallizers - airbrush again
4. Alclad - airbrush again.
5. Various other home grown methods.

They all have their advantages/disadvantages, but generally if you're doing an entire plane or a large area, the spray metallizers are best. You can cover an entre plane with foil, but it takes alot of patience.

Whichever way you go, generally the metallizers aren't cheap. I think that the Alclad is about the most expensive and likely runs from $8-10 per jar. I have some at home, but haven't used it yet. I also hear that you will 'use more than you think you will' so a jar doesn't go as far as the same volume of 'paint' would.

I've used SNJ and it is very good. It is much more durable than the Testors Metallizers. The Alclad is reportedly even better, but like I said, I haven't used it yet.

One key thing I've learned is that it is very important to have a very smooth/flawless surface to put these metalizers onto. They will show EVERY flaw in your bodywork and any spec on the surface will be revealed. Get your 'base' in good shape and you'll be happy with the results.

Good luck,

M.

QUOTE: Originally posted by John P I haven't tried them yet, but I'm told Alclad paints give the best finish. SNJ metal spray with its buffing powder is also highly recommended. I just recently tried Bare Metal Foil for the first time, and am very pleased with its result: http://members.fortunecity.com/jpayne/models/ICKY010.jpg

Wow! That's a beautiful P-47 you have! I've seen a photo of P-38 with similar metal foil finish on the internet. I forgot the URL. I guess if you want to make it look just like metal, the best way is to use metal.

Can you maybe share some secrets with us on this P-47?

Alright guys I need help here too. How can you tell when your surface is ready?
I have some seams that are smooth, but you can still see the scratches, how do I know when the surface is ready? I just can't tell. I have read and read about how to do this and it still scares me to death!!!

jimz,
The biggest thing I worried about was the 'marks' left in the plastic from the sandpaper I was using. I've found that any marks left from any type of paper less than about 600 grit was noticeable in the final finish. I generally tried to buff the surface up with at least 600 wet sanded but a final touch-up with 1200 wet sanded would have been better. If you have other marks that are more significant than the marks left from 600 grit paper, my experience is that it will show up.
You might try putting on a coat of primer before the metalizer. This usually makes it much easier to see imperfections in the finish. Buff the primer up before the metallizer and you should be OK?
I've also heard somewhere that you can apply Future as a primer for metalizers. Don't take my word on this one, cuz I've never done it and I'm not sure you could apply those types of hot lacquers overtop of an acrylic clear?

I hate to say it, but my suggestion would be to get a scrap piece and replicate some of the scratches your concerned about. Apply some metalizer and see for yourself what the result will be. It's the only real way to get a good idea what's going to happen...

M.

Thanks M, I will give it a try. I have several older Monogram kits I have on my shelf, the B-29 and the F100D, I think I will start with my F86D, F-84G and my F-100D.

I have had some reasonable finishes with Floquil platinum mist and old silver, depending on how shiney you want the surface. They take a little more handling than Testors.

jimz,
Another thing....
If you are using SNJ metalizers, I think you can add drops of different colored paint to the mix to get various 'shades'. I remember reading that in the instructions somewhere. They suggested using a drop of 'burnt umber' or 'blue' to give different shades for applying to different panels.

Not sure if it works with the Testors though?

M.

QUOTE: Originally posted by shaun_au Can you maybe share some secrets with us on this P-47?

Not much to tell, really. Peel it off the backing sheet and rub it down onto the model in sheets as big as possible. I rubbed it down with a Q-Tip, but I hear people like to use a small block of soft balsa wood too. Mask off individual panels with low-tack Scotch tape, and polish with very fine steel wool to get the varying panel highlights. That be it! :)

Use gloss black laquer or enamel for the Alclad metalizers. Make sure you polsih out all the scratches-it's very unforgiving stuff in that regard. I use 1200 wet-to-dry, then Brasso on a soft cloth (yep, good old GI Brasso) to get the last of the scratches out. Works pretty well. Then wash the residue off, prime with the black gloss, and apply your Alclad colors. The end results are quite pleasing. -Ed

Is SNJ still available?

Before applying any airbrushed metallic finish, I give most of the kit a buff with a cloth wheel in a Dremel, and some plastic polish. Makes a big difference.

QUOTE: Originally posted by John P QUOTE: Originally posted by shaun_au Can you maybe share some secrets with us on this P-47? Not much to tell, really. Peel it off the backing sheet and rub it down onto the model in sheets as big as possible. I rubbed it down with a Q-Tip, but I hear people like to use a small block of soft balsa wood too. Mask off individual panels with low-tack Scotch tape, and polish with very fine steel wool to get the varying panel highlights. That be it! :)

You did a great job! I'm just wondering, do you paint over the foil?

Bare Metal Foil costs around $10/sq ft. A roll of "Super Aluminum Foil" from Dollar Tree, a bottle of Micro Metal Foil Adhesive, plus a soft brush comes to under $1/sq ft.

There's one problem with aluminum foil I haven't been able to beat: simulating other "white" metals, e.g., titanium -- maybe someone out in forum-land has an idea?

Tom
For different shading of aluminum foil try using different brands. The cheaper ones generally work better because they are thinner. Also try using both sides of the foil. Each side has a different sheen to it.

Re: For different shading of aluminum foil try using different brands/sides.
Thanks but been there. I drove my wife crazy looking for different brands. No joy. I suspect that the manufacturers try to get the most reflective sheen (on one side) they can to impress the buyer -- the result is highly uniform. And while there's more variation on the dull sides, it's not much. (Helpful hint to others reading this: if you want to keep that variation, avoid polishing -- I had to re-do one of the trim tabs on my NMF P-38J after over-buffing the different foils I'd carefully selected.)

I've got a piece of machined titanium (which I would describe as medium gray) in front of me as I type this. It's not even close to the color of any aluminum foil I've found. I've also tried chemically oxidizing. No joy there either as any oxide comes right off when I burnish the foil onto the part. RATS!

I have heard some people boil their aluminum foil with egg shells to get different sheens and colors. I remember an old issue of FSM where this was used on a F-100 to great effect.

Re: boil their aluminum foil with egg shells
“Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time. I think I've forgotten this before.” - Steven Wright

Thanks for reminding me! I recall how discolored my mother's Club Aluminum (cast aluminium cookware popular in the '50's for any readers who don't recognize the name) 5 quart pot got when she boiled eggs. I'll have to give it a try.

A quick websearch found "Having a problem with boiling eggs darkening your aluminum pans? Boil 1c. tomato juice to 1qt. water in pan filling full enough to cover discolored area. Pan darkening can be prevented by boiling in a non- aluminum pan."

Two quick follow-ups:
(1) The eggshell trick works ... well, kinda, sorta. I've run a few tests and haven't gotten anything usable because the color is terribly uneven unless I let it go to black. I plan on trying again with the eggshells crushed to a paste. And ...
(B) [foolish consistancy being the hobgoblin of small minds!] I also tried boiling the foil with baking soda. THIS WORKS. Unfortunately not for darkening. Baking soda gives a near white, aged patina to the aluminum -- very much like what you find in air museums, e.g., like the floats on the Lindbergh's Lockheed 8 Sirius "Tingmissartoq" or any WWII NMF aircraft that's been allowed to oxidize.

Quote of the Week:
[Daniel Jackson] "This tastes like chicken."
[Samantha Carter] "So what's wrong with it?"
[Daniel Jackson] "It's macaroni and cheese."
~~ Stargate episode 105 "The First Commandment"

I agree with Wayne Baker. I use Floquil Platinum Mist and it works quite well. Yes, it will show scratches, but the way around this is a primer coat. I've used gloss Light Gull Gray and it covers the sanding scratches (I use 400 grit wet or dry). If you tint the Platinum Mist with black, etc., you can get varying shades.

What about chrome? I have a motorcycle model that I'd like to chrome, and the supposed chrome plastic is pretty aweful. Any ideas here?

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darb What about chrome? I have a motorcycle model that I'd like to chrome, and the supposed chrome plastic is pretty aweful. Any ideas here?

Well, I wouldn't want to try foiling anything as complicated as the struts in a motorcycle frame. You could chemically metalize the plastic and electroplate the chrome (one of my late uncles did that sort of thing for a living, and he was a brilliant man and you'll notice I said late uncle). Unless you're a maschochist, don't go that route.

Instead I recommend using the "chrome" paint that's available at auto supply stores. Mirror perfect, it ain't, but it'll repaint a bumper tollerably well.

WARNING: This is a THICK paint formulated to hide imperfections, and one man's imperfections are another's superdetailing.

I used some on a 1:288 scale aircraft in the extreme background of a forced perspective diorama. I wanted it "coming out of the sun" at the main model. (And for crying out loud, just how much detail do you expect in a one-piece model roughly the size of your little finger anyway?).

Alclad is excellent but you do need an airbrush.

Why not give the old Rub n'Buff silver cream a try (from Hobbycraft I believe - sold for colouring picture frames). You don't need a brush at all. Carefully spread and polished on silver plastic it gives a good result and is now very stable. The older versions of this cream never quite dried out the new one does.

good luck, John

I did a B-29 in natural metal finish 48 scale monogram. It holds up alot better than testors metalizers and looks great. I'm doing the old Monogram 72nd scale B-36 (a real monster) with many different shade and type of alclads. I've finally finished buffing the undercoat (gloss black modelmaster over primer), while not a mirror finish, still respectably smooth. Remember to DEHUMIDIFY your room air, thats the most critical to a good bond of alclads. The temp I use is between 70 and 90 F. Tanked air (best way to remove the inevatable moisture) off the compressor works best at about 15psi. I'll let you know about overcoats of future or clear laquers as a protection.
Steve

QUOTE: Originally posted by Darb What about chrome? I have a motorcycle model that I'd like to chrome, and the supposed chrome plastic is pretty aweful. Any ideas here?

Alclad now does a both a chrome and a stainless steel finish for models, and a number of pearlescent colour finshes now too. I haven't tries it but I'd also assume that Tamiya Clear paints would airbrush over the chrome or steel finish. There was a recent article in either FSM or the Tamiya magazine about blending blue and orange clear paints over silver metallic finishes to give the appearance of a heat tempered metal surface like a bike exhaust. Alclad also do a heat tempered metal colour which is a very pale gold ideal for those heat tempered panels on the tail of the F-100

Here is the final answer, there is nothing like aluminum, so go for metal foil.
I have done quite a few acft. military and airliners. Among the airliners I have two 757 (1:144) from AA in their actual scheme and the old one(Conmemorative) I have also done a few 1:144 727's plus a miriad of military acft. I know it takes a lot of practice and patience. A few hints: Cut the foil in pices the size of the pannels on the model and join them at this point to avoid over-laping. Polish the plastic and avoid dust as all this will show thruogh. If you want a real good shine
polish it with a mild metal polish or burnish it with a round orange stick.
Another use is to simulate the exhaust on jets. For this I use gunbluing, just brush it over and wash with clear water after getting the right tone, you can do it before applying or after, the one thing is if you do it before the metal film gets sort of brittle and when rub it to meke it stick better you might rub some of the oxidation off.
This info. is free from your teacher from Caracas.

If you are going to paint a bare metal surface, the trick is to get a flawless polished plastic surface. Keep in mind, anything less than 1200 is too coarse. This is a bit of a read, but hope you find it worth your time.

Finer than normal sanding is needed. Get the 6-pack of foam sanding pads from MicroMart, 2800-to 12000 grit, work through this series and you will have a factory shine. Squadron and Flex-I-File make a 3 grit super fine sanding stick use these for seams and joints, also work well for polishing out the old Airfix canopy you had to carve down. Tamiya and others make packs of superfine sand paper. Always sand with lots of water, wipe-clean as you go.

Follow-up the 12000 grit final sand with polishing compound, which will also show-up flaws. In my humble opinion Tamiya's Polishing Compound is the best, it washes off easier the Blue Metal Polish and Semi-Chrome metal polishing pasts, it works even better as a final polish on canopies.

Fine scratches. Gunze Sangyo makes a brush-on filler to fill fine hairlines that normal solvent putties make a mess of, its called Mr. Surfacer 500 (thicker) and Mr. Surfacer 1000 (thinner) use your favorite putty for the big jobs, and Mr. Surfacer for an errant scribed line. Some like typewriter eraser fluid for this, Mr. Surfacer dries harder, sands better and will polish out for that Bare Metal Finish.

As far as metallic paint, find one you like and learn how to use it, they all have different plus-and-minus aspects. My favorites? Floquil, Testers Metalizer. Why? They work well for me, one has a thicker harder surface, and the other a thinner finer surface. Try Mr. Hobby Metalizer chrome silver brushed on and polished on the next oleo strut. Most important of all, find what works for you by trying several.

Remember your goals since this is a hobby, in the back of your mind ask yourself a couple of questions: how does that look in regards to the scale effect -- the look you're trying to achieve, used and dirty or factory fresh -- and the final goal, does it work for me?

Calvin Coolidge once said, "there is nothing more important than patience and perseverance" he must have known something about bare metal finishes.

-robt yoha

I don't do that many metallic finishes (brush painting doesn't cut it and there ain't enough control on spray cans) but I remember several years ago FSM featured a modeler several times (sorry can't remember his name) - he sprayed his models with good old silver butyrate dope - to get the different shades on his panels he tinted his dope (I think he used black, blue and brown to tint) - I never tried it but his models were beautiful.

I am currently trying the Model Master series of metalic finishes and kind of like them - I finally got a bottle of Floquil Old Silver, which is supposed to be buffable. going to give it a try.

As far as scratches go, the method that works the best to me is to sand down to the finest wet/dry sandpaper that I can get and then polish with the finest rubbing compound I can get - makes the surface like glass

no matter what you try - good luck