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FSM Aircraft ID Quiz #6

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  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Philadelphia, PA
Posted by garys on Friday, January 30, 2004 5:14 PM
Thanks Black Wolf,
You've have probably seen the same things I have. There is one at the Bradley Air Museum in Rhode Island so I hope to track down a fellow modeler who might be able to snap a few picks. The plan now is to use some resin P-51 details to dress up this dog. That should due the trick.
Gary
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Philadelphia, PA
Posted by garys on Friday, January 30, 2004 5:13 PM
Thanks Black Wolf,
You've have probably seen the same things I have. There is one at the Bradley Air Museum in Rhode Island so I hope to track down a fellow modeler who might be able to snap a few picks. The plan now is to use some resin P-51 details to dress up this dog. That should due the trick.
Gary
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by philp on Friday, January 23, 2004 9:59 PM
Think they still fly Texan's.Big Smile [:D]
Phil Peterson IPMS #8739 Join the Map http://www.frappr.com/finescalemodeler
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Friday, January 23, 2004 1:27 AM
Gary,

Nope, I haven't any detail shots on the XF15C. There's next to nothing out there on the web about this bird (mostly the same info over and over...) and even less in print; at least there's nothing major. Just a few blurbs in books like that one philp mentioned. Usually a couple photos, basic info, a short history and that's it.

My Grandfather worked at Curtiss during and after the war and he made mention of the bird in his notebooks. I dunno if he took any photos or had anything related to it. He died when I was very young and I never really knew the man. And I'll never know much thanks to my Grandmother and others on her side of the family. I won't go there, lest I wind up on CNN tomorrow...

Anyhoo, I was able to find a few more photos of the Stingaree, including a shot of the first prototype with the original tail configuration.

For those who are interested:




philp,

Y'know I had thought of doing quizzes like you suggested, but I initially decided to stay with simple ID stuff so as to appeal to the masses.

I've even thought of doing one of those 'ID the aircraft this blade antenna belongs to' kinda quizzes, modeled after the ones in WARPLANE which were undoubtedly the inspiration behind 'The Fiendishly Difficult Photo Quiz' which you can find HERE.

Now that someone has suggested it, I may do a few multi-part quizzes with conditions like you mentioned; ID the air arm, unit etc...

But, as I said, I'll stick mainly to simple ID stuff. After all, I'd bet that not everyone here is intimately familiar with the Force Armee du Burundi order of battle!

Come to think of it, neither am I...

(actually a quick web search will give you some info Tongue [:P])


Fade to Black...
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: USA
Posted by philp on Thursday, January 22, 2004 10:50 PM
Wayne,
There are also other resources besides the web for trying to find data about interesting aircraft, a good book. My personal favorite is The Complete Encyclopedia of World Aircraft usually found at Barnes & Noble on sale for $29.99.
The Stingaree took me a while to find as the book is laid out by Manufacturer so it was, check out Grumman, Boeing, etc till I found it.
Check out your local library, they can probably have it sent inter library if they don't have a copy. Once you see it, you will buy it. (wonder if I can get a commission?)

Steve-O,
Love the quizes, it is really nice when I know the planes but even more fun when I get to research. Heck, never seem to have time to get the stuff out and build so got to have some fun with this hobby. How about doing some pics of Small Airforce planes and require us to guess the nationality as well?
Phil Peterson IPMS #8739 Join the Map http://www.frappr.com/finescalemodeler
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Philadelphia, PA
Posted by garys on Monday, January 19, 2004 1:16 PM
Great quiz! Been gathering info on the XF15C for a few months now hoping to do up the ancient Airmodel Vac. Haven't been able to come up with much though. Was going to see if anyone lives near the Quonset Piont Air Museum (RI) where they have one of these on display. Just wondering now Blackwolf if you might have some details?
Gary
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: and just won't go away.
Posted by Quagmyre on Saturday, January 17, 2004 10:01 AM
Ratfarts. I guessed F2A Buffalo rather than SB2C Helldiver. Other than that I had it.

Here's another pic of the exact same plane Curtiss XF15C-1 Stingaree as photo'd in the composite above.


This would make a nice build at 1/48 scale!


Current and Subsequent Projects:
1/48 scale Tamiya P-47 "Razorback" - Complete
1/48 scale Testors/Lone Star Models PT-22 Recruit - 20% Complete 
1/48 scale Monogram C-47 Skytrain - Not Started

  • Member since
    September 2003
Posted by DaveB.inVa on Saturday, January 17, 2004 2:17 AM
I believe the XF15C came about from a request for a Naval fighter that was both piston engine powered for endurance but had a jet engine for speed. The competition winner however was the Ryan Fireball. The Fireball also made the first aircraft carrier landing when on approach the piston engine quit and the pilot landed with jet power.
Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make history.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:52 AM
Salbando,

That's what I like about the forums as well. I've been into this stuff since I was about 11 or so and have gathered quite a database of info including a huge library of books, rags (magazines) and alotta other stuff. I've got literally tens of thousands of photos and images and such. BUT I've had relatively few outlets in which to use all that info until I got on the net. I like to share what I have and the forums have given me an opportunity to do so. And I'm glad that some appreciate it!


Wayne Baker,

To answer your question of how I do searches on the net, and for anyone else who's interested...

To use this particular aircraft, the XF15C as an example:

If I had no idea what it was, I'd first use the obvious clue that it's an American aircraft.

Apparently, it's a photo that was taken in the mid-late 40's.

Looking at the paint scheme, it looks to me to be a Navy bird, as it appears to be one color overall and is obviously glossy.

Also, the company it keeps on the ramp includes a couple of other Navy birds which lends further credence to the idea that it's a Naval aircraft.

It looks like an experimental aircraft, one that was never in service. (A sharp eye will notice that, although it has a prop, it also appears to have an exhaust pipe underneath. The shape and size of the fuselage supports the idea that it has both a piston engine and a jet engine.)

Lastly, it looks like a fighter.


So, using all that as a basis, I'd do searches for 'experimental USN fighter' or 'exerimental USN aircraft', using several combinations and variations of key words; USN, navy, naval, fighter, experimental, aircraft, prototype and others. I'd also toss in references to the timeframe; 40s (40's), 1946, 1947 etc. Sometimes if you have an idea of a general timeframe you can throw in a year with other keywords and luck out.

Another thing you may want to do is just toss in some manufacturers' names as well. This worked for me several weeks back on a quiz over at Scale Hobby Forums. I had given the quiz up for the week to let Pix do one and he threw a real doozie at us.

I had never seen the airplane before but I had a starting point; it was ugly and had French markings. (Which figures perfectly! Wink [;)]) I knew it had to be a post war aircraft just by the way it looked and by the markings that it carried. I won't go through the entire thought process but, in the end, I went back to one of my first ideas about the thing; it vaguely reminded me of another aircraft. So at some point I started searching using the manufacturer's name and eventually got a positive hit. I then backed it up with an image search on Google and was absolutely sure that I had the right aircraft.

In the end it's just a matter of trying different search terms until you come across something that is either exactly what you're looking for or something that's similar.

Another way to go about it is to start with a search for something that is similar to what you're looking for. In this instance, I've determined that the aircraft is probably an experimental US Navy fighter. So I'd try and think of another experimental US Navy aircraft, do a search on it and see what I come up with. Often times websites will have info on more than one type of similar aircraft.

Now if you do know what it is that you're looking for, there are several ways to go about searching. For example, if you're looking for photos of F-14 Tomcats from a certain unit, let's say VF-124 The Gunfighters, you'd inevitably find something by doing searches with F-14, Tomcat, VF-124 and Gunfighters or some such combination of these terms.

Also, if you know that VF-124 was based as NAS Miramar and that their callsign was 'Gunslinger' and that they also flew T-34's for currency, target range and other miscellaneous duties, you can do searches using that info as well.

If you know that VF-124 shared the base at Miramar with other units like the NFWS (Navy Fighter Weapons School or TOPGUN, known to the masses as TOP GUN) or VF-126 Bandits, you can do searches on those units as well and hope to find a connection. Any avenue is worth exploring.

BUT, things can get confusing unless you know exactly what you're looking for.

For instance, let's just say that you start a search for VF-124 Tomcats using their name, 'Gunfighters'; you may end up finding info on VF-101 The Grim Reapers instead. VF-101's callsign is "Gunfighter'!

But in this case that may not be too bad, because both VF-124 & VF-101 were F-14 RAG/FRS units (Replacement Air Group/Fleet Replacement Squadron = Training Unit) and if a site has info on one, there may also be info on the other. (FYI: VF-124 was disestablished in 1994, leaving VF-101 as the sole F-14 RAG.)

So, as you can see, unless you know this stuff beforehand, it can be confusing. But the only way to know stuff sometimes is to be confused for awhile! Tongue [:P]

Sticking with F-14's as an example, if looking for an F-14 unit that deploys aboard carriers you can search for other units within the same carrier air wing. If I'm gonna look for info on the F-14's from VF-41 that shot down the Libyan Su-22's back in '81, at some point I'd do a search on VF-84 which was VF-41's sister squadron onboard the Nimitz. Or I'd look for Su-22 stuff. Basically, any info that's even loosely related to what you're looking for is worth checking out.

Also, don't always put absolute faith in what you find on the net, especially if it's the first site you come across. Too many times I've come across websites that were obviously created by an enthusiast who has no real knowledge of the subject. So it's good to find as many sources of information as you can, after a while it'll be evident as to what is a good source, a mediocre source and a bad source. BUT, even some more reputable sources contain errors. The more info you have the better you can correlate it all and weed out the bad stuff. Just keep hammerin' away and you'll eventually find what you're looking for. And if not, that's what the forums are for!


Fade to Black...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 16, 2004 5:28 PM
Blackwolf,
You're the heat buddy! One of the things I love the most about being a member of this site is that even though I'm a fairly knowledgable military history buff (especially aviation), I'm constantly learning new info. It also gives me the chance to inform others on the info I know. I guess it goes along with the territory for modelers.

Cheers, and waiting for the next contest. I might even give you a few ideas for future quizes down the road.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Medina, Ohio
Posted by wayne baker on Friday, January 16, 2004 8:20 AM
I knew all but the F15. I tried several searchs but couldn't come up with anything. I thought it might be Grumman since you said your grandfather was around it and you are in New York. Which brings me to my question. What we you use to search for this airplane? Maybe the answer will help me with research on some of the kits I'm doing.

Thanks

 I may get so drunk, I have to crawl home. But dammit, I'll crawl like a Marine.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Friday, January 16, 2004 4:59 AM
Oh, sorry!

Well, the P-47 in the photo is a P-47N.

Using today's military phonetic alphabet (otherwise known as the NATO phonetic alphabet) one might refer to the 'N' variant of an airplane as the 'November'. The 'A' the 'Alpha', 'B' 'Bravo', etc.

Seeing as it's a bird from the 40's, I used 'Nan'. That was 'N' in the US phonetic alphabet which was in use back then. (otherwise known as the 'Able-Baker' alphabet, or whatever else someone wants to call it...) Although back then, more often than not, they woulda just called a P-47 a 'Jug', no matter what the variant!

This kinda stuff is just second nature to me and I sometimes ramble on without even considering that some may not know what I'm talking about! Tongue [:P]

If any of you don't know much about phonetic alphabets just do a search on the net, I'm sure there's plenty out there.

Added: hence...

MAN! Got so involved in writing all that, I forgot your second question! Tongue [:P]

The top turrets were removed from some Privateers after the war in order to improve their range and speed.

By the way, if anyone's interested in Privateers and Navy Libs, here's a cool site:

NavyLib.com

This is the most comprehensive site I've yet to come across for info and photos pertaining to Navy Liberators & Privateers. There's even a section dedicated to turrets! LOL Check it out, lotsa groovy stuff here.


Fade to Black...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 16, 2004 4:28 AM
Yippee! First contest for me and I got them right.
Hey Blackwolf,
I feel like a moron, but what exactly is a "nan". The other thing that really threw me at first was the lack of upper turrets on the Privateer. Was this common, or was the pic taken after the war, and they removed them for some reason?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 15, 2004 11:00 PM
I'm sorry to say I didn't respond to this one. I had them all but the X15C, and I had seen the PB4Y as both the Liberator and the Privateer. I meant to research these more and submit a reply and just forgot... hopefully the next one. I hope we can do another creative captions this week too. I'm still laughing over some of those!Laugh [(-D]
  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Manila, Philippines
Posted by shrikes on Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:44 PM
The stingaree was easy... It was the helldiver that was tough or me... A thought that the XF15C was covering it up so i couldn't see the wings or any other detail... turns out it didn't have any wings! (thought those white bits were the wing tips) I almost labeled it as a Kingfisher w/o the float! What was this a picture of anyway? Some guy's collection maybe? Smile [:)]
Blackadder: This plan's as cunning as a fox that used to be Professor of cunning at Oxford University but has now moved on and is working with the U.N at the high commission of cunning planning
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posted by maddafinga on Thursday, January 15, 2004 10:36 PM
This one was really pretty tough, I was right on the ones I knew for sure, but had no idea about the Stingaree. Never heard of that one before, neat looking though.
Madda Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Tact is for those who lack the wit for sarcasm.--maddafinga
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Thursday, January 15, 2004 7:15 PM
Okay, this was a strange one. Although we only had eight replies, all were correct. (One had a typo I think, but I counted it as A-O-K)

The eight:

qmiester
Pixilater
shrikes
garydmason
salbando
djmodels1999
philp
GARYSCHURR


The answer?

From front to back:

PB4Y Privateer
P-47 Thunderbolt
XF15C-1 Stingaree
SB2C Helldiver
C-46 Commando

Some thought that the Privateer may have been an experimental version. Could be, but I doubt it. The Jug is a 'Nan'. And one thing which I thought fersher someone would notice is the fact that the Helldiver has no wings. But no one mentioned it.

The Curtiss XF15C does, in fact, seem to have no official nickname. I've always known it as the Stingaree because that's what my Granfather called it in his notes from work. Almost everywhere I look, though, folks spell it as 'Stringaree' with an 'r' and I'd like to know how that started. The aircraft was named Stingaree after a family of Ray, which was a departure from previous tradition, as almost all Curtiss aircraft were named after birds of prey; specifically the Hawk and the Shrike.

Here's a shot of the Stingaree:




Fade to Black...
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Monday, January 12, 2004 3:11 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by garydmason

...but I guess it didn't come across that way...


I guess the same could be said of me! I wasn't blasting you, just having fun with your remarks. (Hence the smilies and all...) And I tend to over-explain myself sometimes, as well, as evidenced by the fact that, in a way, I was also poking fun at myself with one comment.

Oh well, typical online forum misunderstanding I guess. Sarcasm, tone of voice etc. doesn't translate too well. And my sense of humor is hard to understand sometimes...

Hey Butz! Yeah I shoulda given you credit for the original photo. Sorry, M8! I've got so much of this stuff I forget where alot of it comes from...

As to the quiz itself, I was beginning to think that it was easier than I had initially thought, although the number of responses is down so far. So, balancing it all, perhaps it is 'tough' for some after all.

I will say this, however; to now all who've responded are correct. Although one of you made what I think may be a funkified typo or an early-morning-drowsiness-induced something or other. Tongue [:P] So I'm debating whether or not to let it go or what. Hmmm, decisions, decisions...


Fade to Black...
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Niagara Falls NY
Posted by Butz on Monday, January 12, 2004 2:33 AM
Hey all,
Well Steve, I see finally my pix got some exposerTongue [:P]Wink [;)]. Nice touch
Flaps up, Mike

  If you would listen to everybody about the inaccuracies, most of the kits on your shelf would not have been built Too Close For Guns, Switching To Finger

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 9, 2004 11:48 PM
I'm fairly confident I got all 5. One gave me a hard time since I never did find a nickname for it.

Great contest Blackwolf...keep 'em comin'
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posted by maddafinga on Friday, January 9, 2004 6:17 PM
Well, I think I'm staying out of this one. I'm 100 percent on 3 of them, 75 percent on one, and have no clue on the last. This is a bit of a toughie Steve, I can't wait for the answer on it.
Madda Trifles make perfection, but perfection is no trifle. -- Leonardo Da Vinci Tact is for those who lack the wit for sarcasm.--maddafinga
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 9, 2004 5:59 PM
Pixilator,

You just clued me in to what I've been doing wrong!!!Banged Head [banghead]Bow [bow]Bow [bow]Bow [bow] It's the AIR PRESSURE!!! I'm usually spraying at about 20psi. I had never considered going lower. DUHHHHH!!!!Shock [:O]Banged Head [banghead] That explains why I get great large area paint jobs, but detail work comes out not-so-great. I can't wait to get started on my next German aircraft now!! Thanks for the tip!!!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 9, 2004 5:54 PM
As far as grainy photos go, I wasn't complaining, just stating a fact. I meant it to be slightly humorous, but I guess it didn't come across that way. Sorry. I do realize that OLD photos are gonna be grainy - the technology that we have today just didn't exist back then. I don't think it has anything to do with the internet; if you post a 5 megapixel image, you should be able to get back a 5 megapixel image. The reason you get bad images from the internet is because most people upload low resolution pictures in the first place. Most are below 1 megapixel. And this is usually because there are space limitations set by the domain servers. Sorry - I'll get off of my soapbox now.Ashamed [*^_^*]SoapBox [soapbox]

I really enjoy these aircraft quizzes. Very enjoyable. I've got a great book called "The Complete Book of Fighters", and it lists every fighter ever built, experimental or otherwise, up to the year 1994. Kinda helped me on quiz #6.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Pominville, NY
Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Friday, January 9, 2004 4:35 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by garydmason

The SUPPOSEDLY iffy one...

As far as enlarging the pictures, they are still grainy even after enlarging them. I could barely make out the first single-engined plane's version in large format.


Geez, I only say that one of them may give some folks fits because since I've been frequenting the forums I've been reminded in a big way that not everone is a walking military aviation encyclopedia like myself. Approve [^] At least, that's a label some have pasted on me! Tongue [:P] Dunno if it's a good thing...

So, I have to keep in mind that there are folks who, although they may have a great interest, don't know that much about this stuff. I try to cater to all.

And aren't we PICKY about grainy photos! Wink [;)] Whaddya think, I meant you to be able to read the serial number on the tail? I didn't post the full size image because alotta folks are on dial up and a one and a quarter meg image may take awhile to load for some. But, if you want it here it is...

BIG Image :P

And if you notice, it's still "grainy". That's the nature of photographs, especially when they're put on the web. They usually turn to crap. That's why I hate grabbing stuff off the net sometimes. Alotta GREAT photos which turn into bad images.


Fade to Black...
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 9, 2004 3:54 PM
Gary - if I told you, it wouldn't be a secret anymore. Just kidding.
I use Model Master enamels, thinned almost 50:50 (probably 52:48, paint/thinner). I spray at about 5-7 psi, with minimum paint volume (dual-action airbrush-Badger 150), 1/2 to 1/4 inch from the surface, at a 45 degree angle with a fine needle/nozzle. I can outline the "spots" & fill them in this way. I do this v e r y s l o w l y freehand. Practice on some scrap to get the hang of it.
Hope this helps you.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 9, 2004 3:39 PM
Hey, Pixilator, you need to give a class on airbrushing German camouflage. Mine NEVER comes out looking as good as your Me-262 does. Mine looks like I TRIED to airbrush it, if you know what I mean. What's your secret?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 9, 2004 3:32 PM
ID Quiz #5 must have been the Stealth aircraft, or one with some REALLY good camo !
  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by M1abramsRules on Friday, January 9, 2004 3:09 PM
yep you just gave it away to me!! now if I could figure out the others......
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 9, 2004 3:04 PM
I got all five. The SUPPOSEDLY iffy one doesn't have an official nickname, according to my reference book. Only three were built. The one in the picture is number two. The first one crashed on 8 May 1945. Hope this isn't giving anything away........

As far as enlarging the pictures, they are still grainy even after enlarging them. I could barely make out the first single-engined plane's version in large format.
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