B_17 interior

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:36 PM

I was recently inside a B-17. The upper interior areas (crew areas) were in interior green and the lower area like around the bomb bay was in zinc chromate. Interior green is a darker green with a little more yellow/brown tint. Zinc chromate is brighter.

Reply
Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:34 PM

The Gunze paint could either be lacquer or acrylics. Take a wiff if you can. The acrylic will smell of alchohol. Mr. Color is the lacquer brand name.

Reply
Edit

nkm1416@info.com.ph

Member since
September 2003
From: Philippines

Posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 8:11 PM

jratz: Thanks for the great site and the great info, just in time for my B-17 projects.

Reply

qmiester

Member since
May 2003
From: Central USA

Posted by qmiester on Monday, January 26, 2004 8:10 AM

The inside of fuselages and cockpits were painted in chromate green because early on it was discovered that the yellow chromate tended to make a majority of people violently airsick under certain conditions.
Also a comment on the shades of green chromate. Green chromate as orgionally produced as a thick (almost a paste) substance that was supposed to be thinned with toulene when you were ready to use it. It tended to take on a lighter shade of green as more thinner was added. The thickness of the paint coat also effects the shade of green.
Both green and yellow chromates are still available in the US. Most aircraft parts supply houses can supply both in spray cans ($8.95 a can!) and a few will supply it in quart and gallons.

Quincy

Reply

inpw1

Member since
September 2003
From: u.s.a.

Posted by inpw1 on Monday, January 26, 2004 12:00 AM

you are right jratz, it seems like every picture i looked at while researching for the one im currently working on was different. Not only in color, but shades of zinc chromate. Guess the best one can do is take the average and go with that.

jim

Reply

mandrake

Member since
April 2003
From: Mexico

Posted by mandrake on Sunday, January 25, 2004 9:24 PM

GREAT SITE!

THANKS!

Thanks! My Best Regards Hector Reymundo

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 25, 2004 7:14 PM

Try this:
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/01/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us.htm
Basic premis is that green & yellow chromate were too bright for cockpit/crew areas and thus either undercoated or mixed/darkened. Nor was application universal or to "standard".

Reply
Edit

nkm1416@info.com.ph

Member since
September 2003
From: Philippines

Posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph on Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:56 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by shrikes

There were 3 companies, actually: Boeing, Douglas and Lockheed Vega. Apparently, you can't tell the early G models and the very late F models apart... both had chin turrets and improved cheek guns... the only way to be sure is to check the Bu. No.
I plan to buikd the G i bought and then maybe do a B-17C/D...

You're right! There were only 3 companies. My memory is already failing me. Must have counted Lockheed Vega as separate. Anyway, I found my old photos of the Sentimental Journey but the quality of the prints is now poor I can't tell what color is the nose section. I guess I have to follow the Shoo Shoo Baby and the A Bit O' Lace with zinc chromate green.

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 24, 2004 1:36 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by B. LeCren
I checked back with my source and he stands by what he told me ... don't know whether this is peculiar to Canada or not. I think it might be possible that the model paints are still labelled zinc chromate as a colour description. They may never have contained zinc as a model would not actually need the corrosion protection (my speculation)?
Interesting ...
Bruce

Probably right. Could just be color description now. I still notice that some paints and otehr items aren't shipped out of the US for some odd reason or another though. I have no idea because the paints that I use don't have an ingredient list on them that I can see. Who knows why. Still odd though.

Reply
Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 23, 2004 10:09 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by thenothing

QUOTE: Originally posted by B. LeCren

Green chromate no longer contains zinc.

Huh? I just baught a bottle of Model Master green chromate not more than 2 weeks ago and I'm looking at it right now and it has "Green Zinc Chromate" printed on it. Does this not have zinc in it? Or is that just the color description?

Edit/

I just noticed both of you guys are in Canada. Maybe it's a Canadian thing on why they don't have it up there anymore.

I checked back with my source and he stands by what he told me ... don't know whether this is peculiar to Canada or not. I think it might be possible that the model paints are still labelled zinc chromate as a colour description. They may never have contained zinc as a model would not actually need the corrosion protection (my speculation)?
Interesting ...
Bruce

Reply
Edit

shrikes

Member since
November 2003
From: Manila, Philippines

Posted by shrikes on Friday, January 23, 2004 9:50 PM

There were 3 companies, actually: Boeing, Douglas and Lockheed Vega. Apparently, you can't tell the early G models and the very late F models apart... both had chin turrets and improved cheek guns... the only way to be sure is to check the Bu. No. Smile [:)]

I plan to buikd the G i bought and then maybe do a B-17C/D... Smile [:)]

Blackadder: This plan's as cunning as a fox that used to be Professor of cunning at Oxford University but has now moved on and is working with the U.N at the high commission of cunning planning

Reply

nkm1416@info.com.ph

Member since
September 2003
From: Philippines

Posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph on Friday, January 23, 2004 9:44 PM

Shrikes: I use ordinary paint thinners found in hardwares for the Academy enamels and they work ok. As for the color of the nose section and radio room I'll check the photos I took from the B-17G Sentimental Journey.I am not sure if the interior colors for aluminum B-17gs are all the same since there is the early and late model Gs and there were I think four companies manufacturing them.I'll let you know of what Ican dig up from my references. I am doing a lot of research on B-17s as I plan to build all my B-17 kits this year. I am going to post a separate topic for this coz this might be a long one.

Reply

shrikes

Member since
November 2003
From: Manila, Philippines

Posted by shrikes on Thursday, January 22, 2004 4:54 AM

nkm1416: 3 of the Special Toys stores i've been to (Rustan's Cubao, Virramall and North Edsa) all carried that color set. i can't use all three of the colors, but i figure that it would be a good investment. My problem is that the damn thing doesn't say waht i should use to thin it with (well, at least not in english. Maybe J-Hulk of MMF can decipher it).

That's a great site you found (of course, i love anything B-17 related)! Just one question, though: What color is the interior of the nose section and raido room? Also, would an all aluminum B-17G have the same painted interior?

Blackadder: This plan's as cunning as a fox that used to be Professor of cunning at Oxford University but has now moved on and is working with the U.N at the high commission of cunning planning

Reply

nkm1416@info.com.ph

Member since
September 2003
From: Philippines

Posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph on Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:39 AM

Here's a great site showing excellent interior details of a B-17G ( Shoo Shoo Baby)
http://www.flightjournal.com/b-17.asp

Reply

nkm1416@info.com.ph

Member since
September 2003
From: Philippines

Posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 12:05 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by shrikes

nkm1416: I have the same problem with interior colors... a good substitute is Tamiya's XF-4 Yellow green (well, it's close enough). Gunze also makes a 3 color interior color set that looks very appealing, but the problem is that it's all in japanese and i can't tell if it's acrylic, enamel or laquer... does anyone know anything about this?

Hi Shrikes! Thanks for the tip. I have not seen that Gunze interior color set. Maybe it's the same Gunze paint that marcuz226 is inquiring about in his Gunze Sangyo topic. Special Toys carry a line of Academy enamel paints and they have a set of interior colors including zinc chromate green. Nathalie has this set also. I need only the zinc chromate so i don't want buy to buy the set coz it'll come out expensive.

Reply

mkee

Member since
December 2003

Posted by mkee on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:16 PM

I have had no problems finding green zinc chromate at any of my local shops.If you can't find it you could use model master interior green fs34151.It's a little darker than chromate green but just enough to give the interior a slightly sooty look.
By the way , the paints that I mentioned above are both acryl and redily available.

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:07 PM

I went to another hobby store and found MM green chromate. I bought it. I chatted with the owner of the store for a bit and it seems now that there's a "Cockpit Green" that's replacing the old green chromate. I don't know if that's true, but the bottle I saw resembled Green Chromate.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Reply
Edit

shrikes

Member since
November 2003
From: Manila, Philippines

Posted by shrikes on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 1:40 AM

nkm1416: I have the same problem with interior colors... a good substitute is Tamiya's XF-4 Yellow green (well, it's close enough). Gunze also makes a 3 color interior color set that looks very appealing, but the problem is that it's all in japanese and i can't tell if it's acrylic, enamel or laquer... does anyone know anything about this? Smile [:)]

Blackadder: This plan's as cunning as a fox that used to be Professor of cunning at Oxford University but has now moved on and is working with the U.N at the high commission of cunning planning

Reply

nkm1416@info.com.ph

Member since
September 2003
From: Philippines

Posted by nkm1416@info.com.ph on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 12:47 AM

FSM's Warbird Modeling featured an excellent build of the B-17G and lots of photos of the interior details. It's zinc chromate green in the nose section, cockpit, and tail position. The waist gun position is in natural metal. I also use Model Master Zinc Chromate but is it is hard to find or not available anymore here in the Philippines so I resort to mail orders or request friends and relatives in the US

Reply

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 8:32 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by B. LeCren

Green chromate no longer contains zinc.

Huh? I just baught a bottle of Model Master green chromate not more than 2 weeks ago and I'm looking at it right now and it has "Green Zinc Chromate" printed on it. Does this not have zinc in it? Or is that just the color description? Confused [%-)]

Edit/
I just noticed both of you guys are in Canada. Maybe it's a Canadian thing on why they don't have it up there anymore.

Reply
Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 8:22 PM

Alkaseltzer:
If you asked specifically for "zinc chromate" you would not get that as it is no longer made because apparently it is a hazardous material. At least that is the story we got when trying to get that product for our museum airplanes a few years ago.

Green chromate no longer contains zinc.
Regards,
Bruce

Reply
Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 2:34 PM

I have photos of the interior of a B-17, the Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby. If you would like I can scan some of them and send them to you. Let me know. e-mail RSaddlemire@sc.rr.com

Regards,
Richard

Reply
Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 2:07 PM

Try mixing a little of Model Master 1715 (FS 34151) and 1708 (FS 33538) until you get the right shade to suit your needs.
Have tried this in the past, and seems to work...
Also...refer to Squadron's 'Detail and Scale' series of books on related subjects...
Have been building accurate minature model aircraft (1/48 and 1/32) since 1956, and have been successful so far...

Reply
Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 1:01 PM

I think they probably didn't have it in stock, so they said it so that I would just buy another color there.

Reply
Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 12:41 PM

I just baught a bottle of Model Master Chromate Green (like Ranie, above. Hey, a fellow Okie!) to paint the inside of my F-84E I'm currently working on. The store here had tons of it. I don't know why someone would say they don't make it anymore.

Reply
Edit

Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 12:08 PM

Cool, thanks everyone!

Reply
Edit

Swanny

Member since
February 2003
From: Sandusky Ohio, USA

Posted by Swanny on Monday, January 19, 2004 10:39 AM

Chromate green, olive drab, green drab, aluminum and in one case - black. They have been painted many different colors.

Swanny's Models

Reply

qmiester

Member since
May 2003
From: Central USA

Posted by qmiester on Monday, January 19, 2004 10:35 AM

If you can find a color chip (or check your local airport, one of the shops there should have a can of green chromate and they probably would make you a paint chip), you can mix your own chromate from black and yellow.

Quincy

Reply

chopperfan

Member since
November 2003
From: Oklahoma

Posted by chopperfan on Monday, January 19, 2004 10:27 AM

Testors Enamel series has a yellow chromate and their Model Master Series has the green chromate.
I don't know why they would tell you it's not made anymore? I just recently bought 6 bottles.

Randie Cowboy [C):-)]